Aggies Need to Sack Up

1,293 Views | 17 Replies | Last: 19 yr ago by Waltonloads08
SchizoAg
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In order to bring Bonfire back to campus, Aggies need to sack up, do some engineering, and put together a realistic proposal for how the key goals could be met. That's all that's needed, but unfortunately it's a lot easier for people to sit around b*tching and moaning, so that's what happens.

The proposal would include:

- Plans to exceed all measurable standards met by previous Bonfires. Make it bigger and taller, but make it use half as much wood. Make it burn more brightly, but with less polution. Make it light faster, but stand up longer. Make it look bizzarrely precarious, but be ten times more structurally sound. Heck, put sodium and copper in there to give it red and green stripes. This is the part that will inspire people to
want to be part of the project. Make the proposal sufficiently ambitious, and you'll see faculty opposition evaporate, as they actually come to see the educational potential of the enterprise. Aside from that, this needs to be difficult engineering task, or you'll never get the most talented Aggies on board. Instead you end up with red pots "designing" the same thing that was built last year, only forgetting that those logs were angled inwards for a reason.

- Design a safe build site. You can't tell me that there is no way to safely build this thing. All you need is a little imagination and/or research. For example, build a large framework overarching the build site from which workers could be suspended on bungee cables, and yanked to safety at the first hint of a shift in any of the logs (detected by reflecting lasers off of them). Granted this may seem farfetched, but people have done far more farfetched things in great engineering projects of the past. Another example -- instead of using wires to connect the logs, design a more robust system of joints. I have no specific ideas here, but think tinker toys, legos, or Lincoln logs.

- Plans to institute required safety classes with a "Bonfire license" exam at the end. Make the test difficult, to weed out the people who are only interested in getting drunk. Make people go home if they fail.

- Outline a ridiculously over-diligent system of oversight and accountability, where all plans are scrutinized, and weaknesses can be identified and addressed immediately. This is the part to satisfy the lawyers and bureaucrats. Idea: Require every worker to understand the design, pass an exam testing this knowledge, and sign off his approval or make suggestions on how to improve the design.

- Include a section for long-term goals. Set goals for improving the design and procedures steadily over time. Designate metrics for evaluating long-term progress.

- Make Bonfire more politically palatable for non-Aggies. Send Bonfire crews in shifts to build houses for Habitat for Humanity. Take pledges (based on the length of time it takes Bonfire to fall, or other metrics) to raise money to fund scholarships or Bonfire-related research. Think of ways to safely involve the community (e.g. "mini Bonfire" for school kids).

- This is by no means a comprehensive list. Post your ideas here!

I guess my point is that we as a University really need to see this for what it is: a great engineering challenge, and a great challenge for our institution. There is a lot of glory to be had in safely building the world's largest and most spectacular bonfire. And we need to take up that challenge. Bonfire is the soul of this university; we either build it, or we die (= become t.u.). I, for one, can't bear to see that happen. Unfortunately there are a lot of Aggies nowadays who don't even know what they're missing. So it might be up to us old-timers to provide the initiative for this.

Now which of you old farts have both the can-do attitude and the leisure to take up the gauntlet?
Predmid
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...k
daniel02
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Schizo,

the important parts of your list have been previously identified by Student Bonfire, Inc. and are already in place.

quote:
instead you end up with red pots "designing" the same thing that was built last year, only forgetting that those logs were angled inwards for a reason.
This is lost on me. Why does it have to be a latticed, half-density with flying buttresses and zebra stripes in order to get a professional to work on it?

All bonfires created by Student Bonfire, Inc. have been designed, tested, and certified by a P.E. This individual is a respected, careful professional and makes himself available for any questions around the clock, as well as visiting the Stack regularly to oversee progress.

The design is ambitious. For proof, let me direct you to the addition of Windle Sticks, four large poles almost the height of centerpole, standing parallel to it and connected by steel rods to keep the structure sturdy. These Windle Sticks (named for Levi Windle '03, whopassed in the spring of '03) are an addition that was created by the P.E. and ASB of their own volition because they have recognized the obvious mandate for more stringent structural guidelines.

The idea that swings hanging from a suspended framework would be much safer gets preposterous when you try to implement it. That framework would have to be so large that it would require an even larger crane to install it. How many layers of redundancy would be required to make sure the framework doesn't fall while it's being constructed?

Cut-Safety Class is almost exactly how you've described. It is not something where you can slack off and still get a Cut Card. ASB doesn't have to worry about people showing up just to drink because there is a ZERO alcohol tolerance policy on Cut, Stack or Burn site.

quote:
- Include a section for long-term goals. Set goals for improving the design and procedures steadily over time. Designate metrics for evaluating long-term progress.
Welcome to ASB as a non-profit business. The greatest metric for hwo they're doing is the bottom-line. How much did they have to fund-raise this year over last year? What are the donors saying about the product they are putting in place? It's easier to set goals and define metrics when the survival of the tradition has a fiscal aspect to the organization.

If they were ever to start creating more revenue from Burn than was invested into the Construction, I have no doubt that, in order to maintain non-profit status, ASB would start scholarships or something similar.

The question of making it more palatable to non-ags remains and is not a debate we can settle easily.

Just consider this a few hastily written words to point out that (A)SB has more going for it than you may realize, SchizoAg.


Remember '99.
OC Hogs Build Bonfire!

Every time I read Texags and come across some of you snivelling, tradition hating ladies, I lose a little more hope for A&M. Some of you candy-asses clearly got lost on the way to Austin, Lubbock or Waco. Please buy a map and leave. - Buck Turgidson

Edit for spelling mistakes. BTHO typos!

[This message has been edited by daniel02 (edited 10/4/2006 1:21p).]
hbc07
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well said daniel02
Sesh 96
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Bonfire will NEVER burn on campus again regardless of engineering plans or old fart support. The university's committment to bonfire ended when they built the memorial.

I for one think the Aggies have "sacked up", its called Student Bonfire and I think despite the criticism and obstacles they will always face that they're doing a helluva job.

BTHOSB
Gig'em


slim-jim
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thanks for saying it for me daniel02
SchizoAg
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Maybe I should have learned a little more about Student Bonfire before shooting my mouth off. I had the impression that was a smaller, less organized, more casual event.
daniel02
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ASB is not casual. I'm a dead (obviously) and they made me go through like an hour of Cut Class and learn about all the changes, traditions and the reasons rules were made.

People labelling ASB as renegade really haven't ever given it a chance to prove ourselves otherwise.


Remember '99.
OC Hogs Build Bonfire!

Every time I read Texags and come across some of you snivelling, tradition hating ladies, I lose a little more hope for A&M. Some of you candy-asses clearly got lost on the way to Austin, Lubbock or Waco. Please buy a map and leave. - Buck Turgidson
Armadillo Jackal
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Predictions for student participation this year are over 1000.
Ag_of_08
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quote:
Maybe I should have learned a little more about Student Bonfire before shooting my mouth off. I had the impression that was a smaller, less organized, more casual event.



Not the first, and wont be the last, to speak about SB without doing the research first. If you have doubts, COME OUT. You will not be run offsite, if anything you may get put to work.

SBA has taken every single step bonfire commission proposed, AND has proven that there assertation that bonfire culture COULD NOT be changed to make bonfire safe was made in error. Stack is as safe as i think it can be. There are inherent risks, its a major construction project, but every engineer ive explained the overall design to(without detailed knowledge the PE is using i mihgt add) has commented on the fact that even HALF the changes made would produce a structure that they would be comfortable working on, and have aplauded SBA for taking it a step farther and building in redundancy to there design.

____________________________________________________________
Proudest member of the Fightin Texas Aggie class of 08 Beat the h*** outa tu A-A-A Whoop!!!. May bonfire forever burn in our hearts.....and may the Twelfth Man ever burn it in memory and in hope for the future.

TXAgg05
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I know you guys prob get tired of my interjecting my two cents but its only fair to get both sides.. =0) Afterall, thats what makes TexAgs so great!

Gig'em & BTHO Kansas!
TxAgg05

-------

SchizoAg-

Just wanted you to know that BCS has also been making some headway in this matter.. obiovously not in the same manner as ASB... but working with TAMU administrators HAS to be by a different manner. All of the above mentioned changes and methods are also included in our proposal to Dr Gates.

BCS has already held disccusions with Dr. Gates - and other infleuntial TAMU administrators - with what seems to be a positive willingness to listen, but we can not officially deliver it to him until the closing of litigation prodcedures. So, in the mean time, we contiue to tweak it an make it the best damn, shortest possible suggestion he'll ever have to decide on... YES we want BONFIRE BACK! =0)

If you want to lend support..let them know.. bcs_chair@yahoo.com

We are always looking for more references to list as part of our proposal.. to act as Engineers willing to oversee it, Insurnace Agencies that are willing to insure it, construstion companies that'd be willing to help out with equipment,etc...heck even a pledge of $$ would be good...

BCS's proposal is hopefully going to leave as little reason to say no as possible, by addressing all the issues of past Bonfires, results of the 1999 & 2002 reports and the capital/ resources that would be needed to build it.

`````````````````````````````````````

TO all the rest of you RED-A$$ ags...

Kudos...keep up the practical application...BCS has researched Bonfires at all Big 12 school, as well as several top-tier institutions (which is included as background support for our proposal)...but nothing will prove the point more than the obvious.

While BCS can't officially site you guys as an example - due to the nature of the situation, etc.. Dr. Gates in neither blind nor stupid...he knows that 1,000 plus students go each year...afterall...as former director if the CIA...he knows "everything" ;0)

and be assured that BCS will seek to include as much student participation as will be allowed - especially of affiliated and knowledgeable groups already established that focus on Bonfire.

(I know that sounds kinda funy.. but it is BCS's idea that we take what is offered/ accepted and continue to lobby for more as time progresses. Bonfire will never be the same as it was 98 & prior, 12 Aggies are why...but why would we want it the same when we can build it BETTER than before?)

as a final side note...A remember hearing great things Levi & still miss him...for me it was like the day I heard that Tim Kerlee had passed away. His death was a great lost to Aggie Bonfire (for both SB and BCS). Our chair that year was friends with LW (both are Fightin Aggie class of '03) and it hit BCS hard when we heard the news. While Levi worked on SB he also understood why BCS was going about things a different way (I don't know how many SB people know that...)
Armadillo Jackal
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quote:
While BCS can't officially site you guys as an example - due to the nature of the situation, etc..

BCS MUST officially site SB for their goals to be met. You must provide examples of how its been done which will allow you to convince TAMU how it needs to be done.

For example, if all you present is the SeaAg fire, then the only fire you can present to TAMU is a pallet fire. You see.

BCS must research the changes SB has made to make this tradition safe and manageable. Remember, students have done this without the University's help. All of their achievements were made on their own. This is the greatest example of all to present.
TexasRebel
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Student Bonfire is afterall...a corporation.

Could BCS also not cite the Magnolia fire?
TXAgg05
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(Sorry my reply took so freakin long...grad school is kinda occupying 99.9% my time at the moment)

Okay, perhaps I was again unclear...

I often forget to explain the full background reasons for why things are the way they are.. =0) I forget that not all of you have been dealing with things BCSs "way" for what seems like forever and thus you don't quite have all the info...


this is NOT a slight on SB.. BCS just sees things from a different perspective and such


---------------------------------------
I'l repeat..

BCS doesn't need to state the obvious to Dr. Gates..

he know already that SB has been successful and while BCS's proposal will likely state something to the effect that certain groups have been successful in restructuring Bonfire and correcting the errors and negative values previously associated with Bonfires in the past (ie the whole reason for the "don’t shatter the tradition” campaign to deal with alcohol probs., hazing, etc.) and that those groups should be involved in Bonfire from it intial return to campus....

it would be down-right stupid for us to state that directly if we want to have any chance at getting the result we want.. which would be the expedited return of Bonfire to campus..

As you all (and I) have stated in other posts
There is a line that must be walked when trying to present Bonfire as a need for Texas A&M.

Imagine if BCS's proposal blatantly said (in no uncertain terms)...

"Hey... Dr. Gates & TAMU Admin.. WE (the TAMU Student Body) want Bonfire Back..and we know it can work because a bunch of students have been doing it without the university's approval.. in direct OPPOSITION of the university's standing policy"

I hardly think that they will take very kindly to the reminder and reference...

I am not saying that it won't be indirectly referred to.. as it is in fact an embodiment of the ways in which BCS will likely suggest the TAMU community seek to address the problems seen in past Bonfires....

we just don't want to put salt in the wounds of TAMU Admin....as they are likely to be in a less than great mind-set following the litigation outcomes.. regardless of how they turn out...

DO you want Bonfire Back.. if so BCS's proposal will need to be sensitive in nature to how TAMU Admin. will view the proposal.. from ALL angles... by this I mean...

- legally

- financially

- morally (is it really right to continue after 12 students died?, etc)

- Socially (is Bonfire contributing in a positive manner to TAMU and the B/CS community?

- Environmentally (waste of resources that could be used in another fashion, does it create an unnecessary hazard?)

- Risk management (Is it worth the potential extreme risks?)

And so on...

``````````````
And to answer you question regarding Magnolia....I am not aware of wether or not it will be cited in the final draft but I personally would say that it shouldn’t be included.. as it :

A) ISN’T BUILT on a university campus

and more importantly...

B) IT IS NOT BUILT BY STUDENTS

The citing of other Bonfires is to be used as supporting reasons for Bonfire on campus...Unfortunately neither SB or Magnolia directly supports BCS’s arguments in that regard...

Rest assured though...

SB is always on BCS’s minds (as well as the TAMU Admin.)

and

SB will be included in the proceedings in some form or fashion I... it may not be as an official rep of SB.. but as FIGHTIN TEXAS AGGIE...which is the most important common thread, right?
Armadillo Jackal
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quote:
"Hey... Dr. Gates & TAMU Admin.. WE (the TAMU Student Body) want Bonfire Back..and we know it can work because a bunch of students have been doing it without the university's approval.. in direct OPPOSITION of the university's standing policy"

Just for clarification, SB is not in direct opposition. SB is not on campus and does not force students out there. Everyone attends voluntarily.

[This message has been edited by Armadillo Jackal (edited 10/9/2006 3:54p).]
preshy boy
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Admin no longer is apposed to off campus bonfire, it more of turning a blind eye.
daniel02
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05, you've hit the nail on the head and don't realize it.

BCS talks about other schools' bonfires. Talks about how to change Aggie Bonfire. Talks about how the twelve men and women must change everything. Talks about making the proposal that will bring it all back and how BCS will cover all angles.

I can't see Student Bonfire, Inc. walking into a BCS meeting "just as aggies and not as representatives" to further your cause, because Student Bonfire is not inferior to the Bonfire Coalition for Students.

The language and actions of the Bonfire Coalition for Students has given this Alumni every reason to think that is a widely held prejudice by BCS.

Student Bonfire, Inc. builds Aggie Bonfire, the tradition that inspired those other schools to start pallet fires and hex rallies in imitation.

It's unique to Texas A&M and studying other schools and written history will never give you an accurate picture of what should be a living, social entity.

BCS speaks of planning but loses touch more and more with what they are supposed to be proposing.


Remember '99.
OC Hogs Build Bonfire!

Every time I read Texags and come across some of you snivelling, tradition hating ladies, I lose a little more hope for A&M. Some of you candy-asses clearly got lost on the way to Austin, Lubbock or Waco. Please buy a map and leave. - Buck Turgidson
RockOn
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nm

[This message has been edited by RockOn (edited 10/18/2006 6:04p).]
Waltonloads08
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Bonfire as we knew pre- '99 will never again happen on campus at Texas A&M, period. Bonfire, by its nature, is a dangerous undertaking and it is a matter of time before someone is seriously injured or killed in association with it. is this a reason to stop? of course not, MANY activities people do are dangerous... A&M simply can't afford the liability, and i dont blame them. SB is off campus and theres nothing wrong with that. Aggie Bonfire will live on. yes, SB is Aggie Bonfire
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