Lets be realistic... will on campus Bonfire ever happen again?

1,529 Views | 27 Replies | Last: 19 yr ago by COKEMAN
Sammy J
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First, when should the litigation end? Why is it taking so long... typical of the court system (but, so not to disrespect fallen ags, i guess they can take their time).

Second, once it all gets cleared up, do you think on campus Bonfire will magically happen ASAP? It should be years before that happens. I think only when Ags who weren't alive during the tragedy are at TAMU feel like starting a new tradition and read up on this thing called "Bonfire," will an on campus Bonfire have a shot. A shame, really.

Finally, do you really see it happening again? If so, how soon?
Waltonloads08
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*see every other thread on this board.

no. it won't.
commando2004
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quote:
when Ags who weren't alive during the tragedy are at TAMU feel like starting a new tradition and read up on this thing called "Bonfire,


Nah, they'll probably just do something dumb like bring back a forgotten yell.
dg77ag
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unfortunatley agree with walton
Predmid
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I'm fairly certain they will evenutally bring back burn. Whether or not they bring back the bonfire you and I know is completely up in the air.

So to answer your question, will bonfire ever return? Probably not...but one can hope.
diehard03
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The university still profits off the image of bonfire (see the opening montages at the football games), so there's still money to be made if they bring it back it some controlled form. The revenue associated with Bonfire is what will bring it back. Sick, but true.
HOGS LEW
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If it comes back as SB has been doing it I would love to. I don't think the university would do that though. I am very happy to keep doing it off campus and to continue improving the organization. I would rather see SB become a well oiled machine that pulls off a great Bonfire every year, that is well recognized and attended, than have a watered down version on campus.
P.H. Dexippus
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Ditto.
IceAg08
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quote:
The revenue associated with Bonfire is what will bring it back. Sick, but true.


EXACTLY! This should also be a goal of SB. They need to somehow find a way to turn this into a mass profit machine that shows the university what they are missing out on. Then and only then will it be back on campus.
SquareOne07
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Money ain't the answer to everything guys, sorry to let you in on that. Bonfire wasn't something the U was losing money on, Bonfire was something the U oversaw where 12 kids died, let's be realistic here. Also, have a little respect, you think any millions of dollars is gonna be enough to make some people forget? Maybe everybody that's uber-Bonfire should start thinking that maybe it's time on campus is done.
preshy boy
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hey square, how about you go ask some one from the board of regents how much money A&M made from bonfire!!!
SquareOne07
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Was that my point?
preshy boy
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the "U" as you call it was making BIG money from bonfire, most of it went to the athletic dept.

the point that was made was if/ when bonfire gets financially sound and $$$ are rolling in year after year, they might just remember what it brought in revenue wise.

If I remember correctly, almost 50% of profit from bonfire was applied directly to the athletic dept..
SquareOne07
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The point I took issue with wasn't whether or not Bonfire brought in money, we're all sure it did. The point I'm making is that there is no amount of money that could or should take precedence over what Bonfire caused both the university, it's image, the families of the 12, the many other injured, and for every single Aggie past, present, and future.

How much money would you suppose SB should make before the university looks at that amount and chooses to substitue that money for the reasons I stated above?

Money shouldn't even enter the equation, and if it ever does then that will just be one more HUGE step backwards for Bonfire.
DualAG
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Just to enhance this discussion with a morsel of fact gleaned from the aftermath of Dr. Bowen's decision in 2002 not to build a $2 million replacement for Bonfire:

Royce Clayton, who at the time was chair of the Bryan-College Station Convention and Visitors Bureau, was quoted in Eagle as saying the suspension of the Bonfire tradition cost the local economy approximately $1 million per year during the years that the football game was held in Austin.

That's the value that the students spent for staying over and that visitors spent for hotels, restaurants, filling the gas tank, etc. Ostensibly, it was a bit more difficult to compute the economic advantage Bonfire brought the community when the t. u. game happened at Kyle, as many of the Bonfire spectators would have come anyway.
SquareOne07
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But how much of that matters now that 12 Aggies died?
NoACDamnit
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My memory could be fuzzy, but I don't think Bonfire was bringing in the money some of you think it was. There was no income outside of licensing the image.
Keegan99
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I'm with NoAC.

I'm not sure how the University made all that money from Bonfire that some seem to think they did. The only revenue stream I can think of is licensing.
SquareOne07
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People could make the connection much as they do with football games that it brings a great influx of people into the community, and this is true. But like I've said, I don't see this as being worth the dangerous situation Bonfire created as it existed on campus, and it certainly wasn't worth anybodys' lives.
TexasRebel
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Square,

you just don't get that Bonfire can be built safely...

nobody is trying to hop in a time machine and copy the 1998 stack.

The University and the town, once litigation is over, will have to look at their books and say something along the lines of "well, this group of students has been building Bonfire safe for XX years...WE could be making money off of that..."

none of this shows any disrespect to the 12 unless the traditions and the experience is lost in order to make it profitable. I'm not sure anybody in Student Bonfire would allow that, and if this were the case, it would be the University tarnishing an image...

...but that's a whole 'nother bear.
SquareOne07
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oh I get it can be built safely.

I honestly can't see the university ever looking at the money it's missing out on, honestly, as a factor in deciding whether or not bonfire comes back to campus.
IceAg08
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Square,

Nobody here is wanting bonfire to come back as a way to forget the 12 that left us that day. We dont believe any amount of money should take precedent over those individuals, thus the memorial. All we are saying here is that there is money to be made for the university, it was a great tradition, and it needs to come back to campus to rekindle the Aggie Spirit.
SquareOne07
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The message I was getting from some is that the money would be too great of a sum to ignore. If you go back and read the posts, you might get the same impression.
GoneGirl
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quote:
Royce Clayton

Do you mean Royce Hickman of the Chamber of Comemrce? I think Royce Clayton plays for the Cincinatti Reds....



As much as it hurts me to say it, I don't believe the University can bring it back even if they wanted to. Too much liability. Their lawyers would never allow it. AND if the Regents or University President took action that goes against that legal advice, they could be setting themselves up for a good bit of personal liability. I just don't see that happening.
DualAG
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Yes, it was Royce Hickman. I'm so sorry for an honest mistake about the man’s surname, but the monetary figure was correct. (Not that that it mattered enough to warrant the frowny emoticon, but that’s par for the course in these parts.)

Understand that I am not arguing for a return of Bonfire to campus solely for the money it would generate for the community. That’s just a detail I contributed to the discussion.

I would like to see one of the nation's greatest collegiate traditions return to Texas A&M because it was something that differentiated us from the others, from that gaggle of state universities with vim-and-vigor cheerleaders, Greek-lettered spirit groups, and marching bands that wear feathers in their hats. I would like to see Texas Aggie Bonfire rise from the ashes because it marked the Aggie Spirit in so many ways. With respect to the letter writer to the Eagle last year, Aggie Bonfire will never be replaced with a laser light show.

Yes, twelve Aggies died. Twelve died because the administration didn't have the courage to reign in and correct a 90-year tradition that had recently spun out of control. Twelve Aggies died because the president of the university, who held a doctorate in engineering, drove past the stack every day for years and never stopped to find out if a set of blueprints or a structural engineer were on site. Twelve died because the reactive culture that banned students from riding in open-bed trucks focused on treating the symptoms rather than providing proactive supervision. This is no original observation. It’s all in the Linbeck Commission Report.

I would like to see Bonfire return because I know we can do it right. I authored the report for President Gates regarding collegiate bonfires. Dartmouth, an Ivy League school, constructs a bonfire with student labor that causes no injuries more serious than what can be treated with a band-aid. It contributes to nobody going on scholastic probation. West Point and Annapolis have had bonfires for more than a hundred years with nary a physical nor an academic casualty. I’ve read Texas Tech’s bonfire manual and talked with that university’s bonfire advisor. West Texas A&M prides itself on what it calls a “culture of compliance” regarding the building of its annual bonfire. Other schools nationwide build bonfires that you never hear of for good reason. Nobody gets hurt. Nothing goes out of control.

I grew up in Louisiana where bonfires line the levees on Christmas Eve to light the way for Père Noël. I’ve been to England for Guy ****es Day bonfire celebrations. Nobody sustains more than a scratch, even if spectators are known to imbibe a bit. I’ve studied enough Aggie Bonfire history to know that, at one time in our school’s history, the Commandant of the Corps of Cadets provided solid adult leadership that students followed willingly.

(That's Guy F-a-w-k-e-s. Don't you love the Texags profanity screening software?)

Some say it would dishonor the twelve if we resumed the tradition. The local daily newspaper carried that point to the ridiculous by listing twelve names in last year’s scathing editorial. I happen to feel the opposite is true and so do some others. I served on a committee with two relatives of the fallen. Their advocacy of continuing the tradition expressed their view of how to honor their brother and cousin. This is not to say that all the survivors are in accord; instead it shows that there is no unanimity of opinion on an issue that some have elevated to a truism.

Yes, indemnification would pose a significant stumbling block. Our report to Dr. Gates admitted as much. I don’t think that and other obstacles are insurmountable. And, no, it wouldn’t cost $2 million to do it right. None of the schools that maintain their bonfire traditions would think of spending a significant fraction of that.

Banning resumption of Bonfire until cessation of litigation serves as a double-edged sword. Aggies now cycle though their undergraduate years without ever knowing about this great tradition. It’s hard to yearn for something you don’t know. Yet, as the years pass, perhaps those who are so steadfastly opposed to Bonfire will also experience a thinning of the ranks.

The Bonfire culture of the 1990s made a lot of enemies long before stack fell. The most vociferous opponents of resumption may have been anti-Bonfire long before the tragedy. Perhaps the passage of years may mellow the more strident opinions on both sides.

If you’re a praying person, ask protection for those fine young Aggies out in Robertson County. No amount of arguing will dissuade them from trying to preserve the tradition, and I admire them for their tenacity and for the discipline they’re trying to observe. (No alcohol and a professionally engineered design.) But I’d feel a lot more comfortable if they were building under the kind of supervision Texas A&M could provide.

[This message has been edited by DualAG (edited 11/18/2006 9:49a).]
GoneGirl
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Sorry Dual, the frowny face wasn't for you... it was sadness about Bonfire. Sorry it was misinterpreted....

Excellent post (above) by the way....

[This message has been edited by TxElsie (edited 11/18/2006 7:28a).]
DualAG
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Sorry I got defensive. Yesterday wasn't a good day.
55-99
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Unfortunately, money is an issue. The university is undergoing litigation. The university cannot afford to bring that kind of risk back.

It's stinks. However, I wouldn't want Bonfire to come back if it wasn't safe. I don't think anyone would. It's going to be hard to convince the university that it can be brought back in a form that will be accepted by the students, both current and former, and still keep the same spirit.

As I've explained to friends that didn't attend A&M, burn isn't what Bonfire is/was about. It was about everything that went into it from the beginning to the end and the relationships that were formed and the spirit that united the university every year (obviously it didn't unite every part of the university...).
COKEMAN
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I don't know if it will ever come back to campus in a manner acceptable to supporters. However, although I have always known it, it has became more obvious the last few years that there will always be groups of students that want to build it and continue that tradition by whatever means possible. That is just one of the reasons I stay so involved with SB. These kids (young adults) have such a passion for this that no manner of discouragement from the Administration or detractors will suade them. I think that's great, but of course I'm a supporter.

Among other things yesterday, I was reflecting on this and it occurred to me that the detractors may not get this passion nor understand that there is no way to stamp it out. To that end, I would much rather have their efforts focused under supervision of a united organization instead of splintering off and building multiple fires where safety might not be high on the priority list. Student Bonfire is taking the role of that organization. And if somehow it folds up, another one is sure to follow.

Maybe the University will see this one day and take the reins again. After all, I have always been told that is why it was brought on to campus in the first place. However, if what they bring back is simply a contractor built stack of wood, I suspect a student organization for a student built fire would pop back up.

Scott Coker '92
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