After reading some stuff from another board about Bonfire...

How would you guys feel if Bonfire never was able to return to campus/never able to return to what Bonfire once was?

There are a number of camps of people as far as the current bonfire is concerned, and there is a pretty good faction of those who believe that Bonfire is only Bonfire if it is on campus. While some of those people support SB, they do so in hopes that it will eventually bring Bonfire back to campus.

So again, how would you guys feel if Bonfire never made it back to campus and it's only hope was to proliferate off campus?

I'm of the opinion that you'll know Bonfire when you see it.

Bonfire started off campus, moved to Duncan Field, and again to the Polo Fields in later years, and currently is built off-campus again; so I don't think specific location dictates what is "Bonfire."

I'm also of the persuasion that Bonfire is a thing of the Spirit. You know it when you feel it. It may come to you through the ground as the tree you just cut crashes down. It may be that thumping in your heart as you crest the last hill on your way to site and Stack rises over the horizon. It may come to you in the thunderous sound of 100+ ft flames lick the night sky. Any way, you'll know it when you feel it.

Return to campus? Sure, that'd be nice. There'd be a bunch more meat to carry logs and run tag-lines; and cheap food within walking distance. It's not necessary, but it'd be nice.

In the end, I think the requirements for Bonfire boil down to these:
1. Built by future, current, and former Texas A&M Students.
2. The Aggie Spirit must be present
3. It must be built and burned in the Fall semester, before the annual game with t.u.

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As Student Bonfire builds its rep (and bank account) it will grow and earn more respect. It is my hope that eventually it is accepted by everyone as THE Bonfire and it is treated as such. That kind of reputation will take time. I still hear many people call it "rebel Bonfire."

Once we have a good history of safe, well run burns and enough time since '99 that it could be allowed back on campus. I want the Bonfire we are doing to continue. On or off campus I am not concerned about, as long as it is done right.

I agree with Opie. Bonfire is not dependent on location. It is groups of ags growing together for one common cause. Seeing current student grow into leaders. Amongst other things which Opie has commented.

I've always heard people say that Bonfire started off campus. Where does that info come from?

And it moved onto Simpson before Duncan was even there. Once it started reaching the larger sizes it was screwing up the drillfield and moved to Duncan.

I forgot about the Simpson Drill Field years. Sorry.

Big Event and RePlant are off-campus and are traditions. Aggies participate in Muster all across the globe, Aggies hold midnight yell on the steps of the Capital building every year, and Aggie fans do yells at the stadiums of away football games; all of which are traditions. Heck, the new DA for Victoria (Steve Tyler '82) greeted me with a "Howdy" yesterday, so that isn't exclusive to campus. Oh, and didn't A&M's 12th Man Maroon-out Baylor this year?

Outside of Silver Taps, E-Walk, and the Corps; I can't think of any major traditions that are exclusive to campus. Build the Hell outta Bonfire 2006, wherever it is.

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If you can read this, thank a teacher.
If you can read this in English, thank a Soldier.

In the construction of the residence halls (and de-construction of a local farmer's barn in 1935), there was an abundance of scrap lumber that was "acquired", assembled, and burned within walking distance of campus. A&M wasn't that big at the time and any open field served as the venues for Bonfires in those days.

After said farmer complained, the University oversaw the legal and productive harvest of lumber for Bonfire. Trees were often cleared for local roadways (2818), land-owners who wanted to run cattle, and various county projects.

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All very good, and thanks for not getting very defensive...

But what do you say to people like those during the 80s who built Bonfire on campus and feel like that's the only way to go? I ask because that sentiment is very common among many old ags. Do you just tell them they're wrong? In nicer words of course...

My response to that is "Have an open mind. Come out to a cut, show up for burn, and see what you think."

I would say we can't and shouldn't do it like we did in the 80's. One the 80's led to the 90's and that lead to the collapse. Two it is impossible to do it that way. The way we are doing it now is the only way we can do it at all. We sure as hell aren't putting logs on top of each other, so this is how it gets done.

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But what do you say to people like those during the 80s who built Bonfire on campus and feel like that's the only way to go?

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To every one of these dissenters [sp], I've offered my pot and my axe and asked them to come check it out and see for themselves. 100% of those who have taken me up on it have changed their minds.

And which guys from the '80s are you talking about? The group of Reds from that era that visited in '02 and offered us their pots? The legions of former students, children in tow, who have flocked to burn to see Bonfire once again? The countless donors who have given hundreds of thousands of dollars in classes ranging from '44 - '0? ?

Back to your quote, the "only way to go" is off-campus. The lawyers say so. In 2002, the only people still on campus who knew how to build Bonfire were about to graduate, and needed leave the next generation with the knowledge of how to do it. The only way to learn how to build a Bonfire is to build one, so we did. We adapted Bonfire in a way that would allow it to be built safely, in a short period of time, and off campus. And we burned it. And we all cried.

Just like America, A&M, and everything in this world; Bonfire had to change with the times. Airports weren't moth-balled when 9/11 happened, and neither was the Bonfire Spirit when it fell. Both figured out a safe way to operate and continue to do so today.


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If you can read this, thank a teacher.
If you can read this in English, thank a Soldier.

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In the construction of the residence halls (and de-construction of a local farmer's barn in 1935), there was an abundance of scrap lumber that was "acquired", assembled, and burned within walking distance of campus. A&M wasn't that big at the time and any open field served as the venues for Bonfires in those days.

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The '28 fire was right in the middle of campus. I'm not sure if it was called Simpson back then, but it's the same field unless it was a bit over where the MSC stands now.

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Yeah, except Bonfire started in 1909, OFF CAMPUS

The student bonfire has shown that it can be done safely.

Why doesnt the admin see that and bring it back puting the same people in charge?

Are you serious? So 3 years qualifies a project like this as being safe? I'm sure for 90 years they thought Bonfire was safe too...

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Are you serious? So 3 years qualifies a project like this as being safe?

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So where do you set the bar at? How long should it be?

Not quite sure, but 3 years doesn't quite cut it. What do you think?

Hell, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say...never? If you consider all things involved from first cut until after burn...yeah...

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So 3 years qualifies a project like this as being safe?

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Don't worry; by the time TAMU is ready to bring it back, SB will have had enough decades to prove itself.

Safety isn't a track record of some arbitrary length.

Safety is policies and procedures that are adhered to by participants.

SB has done the latter.

My point is though, while those policies and procedure are being adhered to, that pattern must continue to hold true for a great deal of time to come. Especially in order to turn people's minds over from previous problems.

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Yeah, except Bonfire started in 1909, OFF CAMPUS

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Which goes back to my original point. I've been hearing that for 7 years now but never read anything about it starting off campus.

Where's the info come from? I'm not saying it didn't happen, I want to learn about it.

1909 is actually when it moved closer to campus and was considered "on" campus except campus was pretty small back then, so the lines were fuzzy.

There are bits and pieces of info about fires as early as 1902...my guess is they were nothing more than either a land clearing project or a way to keep warm come winter. From what I've gathered, they had nothing to do with football, or even Texas A&M really besides it was Aggies who started them.

what is a little coincidental though is that the 2002 fire, which was one hundred years after the fire in 1902, was a fire that has nothing to do with Texas A&M besides a few Aggies lighting it somewhere off campus...you never know...maybe history is cyclical. In 2009 we can see if a cycle is forming or if the 1902 and 2002 things are just a random coincidence.

Random thought...how much information could be found about Bonfire back in the days of prohibition?

So according to some on here, wouldn't those fires burning in 1902 be "Aggie Bonfires" since they were built by Aggies?

Rebel - where does all this info come from?

bits and pieces from cushing, some tidbits from stories I've heard.

Nothing that I know of gives any hard evidence of anything before 1909.

I've just tried to find some pattern of events that started with a fire that either kept people warm or burned a bunch of trash that might've happened around the same time a few years in a row before taking off as what we know as Bonfire.

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My point is though, while those policies and procedure are being adhered to, that pattern must continue to hold true for a great deal of time to come. Especially in order to turn people's minds over from previous problems.

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This nails it.

How permanent are the recent changes, and will they revert to the same old problems with another generation of students?

Will the current determination to eschew alcohol and horseplay survive another generational change among the builders? In the real world, generations are generally about 25 years apart. In the university community, a new generation arrives every four to five years

Bonfire had an image problem long before the 1999 tragedy. Read editorials and letters in The Eagle for a ten-year period prior to the collapse. The community had become tired of drunken convocations on Bonfire night.

Read the minutes of the Faculty Senate, available on line, for the same period during the 1990s. The professors engaged in vigorous debate about the merits of Bonfire, with some in favor and others citing not only environmental damage (actually a small minority), but also students who would fall asleep in class after all-night shifts or who just wouldn't come.

Read letters in the Battalion about dorm residents who took exception to uninvited door pounding at 6 a.m. on Saturdays in order to recruit candidates for cut.

When my kid received a Sul Ross scholarship, one of the senior adults in the Trigon warned us to carefully choose his outfit, so as to avoid the attitude: "We'll build the hell out of Bonfire in the fall and get off of ScoPro in the spring."

The comments in this thread refer to overcoming more recent problems, specifically the safety lapses that led to the tragedy. But history of Bonfire in the 1990s leads a lot of long-time observers to skepticism about how much of a cultural shift has actually taken place.

If you accept that it has, which I do but others don’t, how permanent are the changes?

Well made points. The university has changed over the years. I doubt that any of the “issues” of the past will ever come up again due to the fact that the students that were accepted into the university back then wouldn’t even get a sniff of admissions to the university now.

The kids at A&M are smarter now starting out than we ever were “back in the day.”
Why should they (the student s today) be punished by a culture and university administration for past transgressions?

They (bonfire) have demonstrated their resolve to do things right and all that can be said is… “but what if” The arguments presented against bonfire are simply a matter of opinion. Little pissy comments by professors that were here just to make tenure because Stanford/ CalTech/ UT was too difficult? Letters in the Battalion? You base your arguments on a culture that does not exist on campus anymore. You want to find the students that are at the standard we were at twenty, thirty, forty years ago? Go west young man – you’ll find those stellar GPA’s at Texas Tech, New Mexico State, etc.

Will social issues still come up? Sure. Just like hazing issues in the corps…there are policies and procedures that are in place to deal with hazing…there are policies and procedures in place (or will be in place) for bonfire.

Let the kids that want to build bonfire – build bonfire. I bet that within five years bonfire will be back on campus. We will be more than ten years out from the 99’ bonfire tragedy, and the community will be searching for more revenue. What other event would bring in over seventy thousand people to a weekday event? Ask the business owners about their bottom line if bonfire was to return to campus. I bet the hotel / motel industry would support the return. Those tax dollars should sway the next “Randy Simms” to side with the business owners. The city council has a “climate” of pro revenue… so if the kids hang in there – they will get their wish. They will be heavily restricted (and legislated) when bonfire returns to campus, but make no mistake – the bottom line will be the deciding factor.

I'm so tired of people making arguments about how it makes financial sense for Bonfire to be back on campus! Twelve young Aggies died last time it was on campus, isn't that enough for it to be seen as maybe not such a great idea? How many more will convince you that no amount of money should bring Bonfire back??

I'm sure legalizing gambling and building a strip on the bypass would do wonders for the community in terms of an influx of revenue, but I would hope the town would not prostitute itself. Likewise, I sincerely hope the university would not compromise itself by bowing to any amount of money to be brought in while in return putting the lives of Aggies at risk. And don't tell me that because the new way bonfire is run is entirely safe because no such project can be entirely absolved from SERIOUS dangers. My freshman year a kid in my dorm had to have his jaw wired shut, another year I saw a log on stack come within inches of a friend of mine's face while it came crashing down from stack, the same log narrowly missed others as well.

No amount of money should be considered in Bonfire's return to campus.

OK. Sadly,12 people died on campus building a Bonfire. Given the level of leadership and safety now, which will only be perfected over the next years, it is certain that if on campus, more Aggies will die? Bonfire is an outstanding idea off campus but sure to cause multiple deaths if moved several miles closer to campus. Yeah, that makes a ton of sense!

Again, you lost me during the whole "for or against" thread. You are for off campus and against on. Are you sure you aren't against off campus as well. Seems pretty obvious.

[This message has been edited by sharklady00 (edited 11/21/2006 12:28p).]

Then again, I assume that what they are building IS Bonfire. SO if the same people that are building it off campus, bulid it on campus Aggies will die. I just don't get that. This is ultimately what you are trying to say. Bring it back on campus and the outstanding Bonfire leadership that is present today will fail and people will die. I just don't get that an Aggie Bonfire is not an Aggie Bonfire if it is built off campus vs. on.

How on earth did you gather that I said if it is brought back on campus people will die? That's absurd. I'm saying that people dying...again...is certainly not something anybody (any university) in their right mind will willingly choose to take on.

My point, and obviously you missed it, is that 12 people died while building Bonfire on campus in one fell swoop of a horribly tragic accident. So money...MONEY...should be taken into consideration when deciding whether or not it should come back? I think not.

You'll pretty much find some way to object, at times incoherently, with anything I say won't you?

The University and the entire world seem to run on money. This is why College Station has exploded with fast food restaurants. There literally what seems like 100 places to go eat in a 5 mile radius. Why are these companies here? Money? If there was no money to be made? Why would they build? If money wasn't such a hude deal, why is the University charging the students for 15 hours if they only take 12?

The people on this forum are NOT saying that money makes up for the death of 12 people. You keep preaching that this is what people are saying and it just isn't. Please read the posts. It is all there.

I just don't get how you are for an off campus bonfire, but bringing it on campus would be a disaster!

Texas A&M University IS a business. If they see in 5 or 10 years that Bonfire is a well oiled machine and several other events MUST fall into place they might consider bringing it back on campus. If it is not financially beneficial to them, then they won't bother.

Again, I question your stand on off vs on. Is it just the thought of the Univeristy making money that makes your blood boil? Because the University is taking in money from all directions, our Univeristy is as beautiful as it is and will continue to improve.

If I find something to agree with you on, I will gladly do it. You and I, like most on this forum just don't agree on much and that is ok. This is why I am glad to be an American.

So, if the University somehow could not make one red cent off Bonfire and SB had successfully built off campus Bonfire for 10 years, it should never be moved on campus?

[This message has been edited by sharklady00 (edited 11/21/2006 12:50p).]

It doesn't "boil my blood" that the university is trying to make money, I know good and well it's a business. It would however piss my off if A&M attempted to make money off of something like Bonfire given the history and the 12 who have died. That would send a really horrible message to those on the outside that A&M chose to overlook potential dangers (again) as well as the Aggies who have died in favor of money. This is almost a morbid conversation to be having and I wish for a minute you could step back and realize the things you're saying.

I find it extremely disturbing to even think that A&M would consider hoping to make a dime off of Bonfire after all the problems there were prior to 99 and ultimately culminating in the tragedy.

How about if t.u. sold tickets to go up to the top of the bell tower where the shootings took place? Or what if NYC charged people money to go see ground zero?

[This message has been edited by SquareOne07 (edited 11/21/2006 12:59p).]

This may be off the wall, but this is close to home...

There was just a MASSIVE bike rally in Galveston. It is the 3rd largest in the world attracting hundreds of thousands of bikers. Usually, 5 or 6 die every year during the 3 day weekend. The people attending this rally are very well aware of the risks involved and so is the city. The city makes plans every year to try to make it better and safer. Because 6 people died this year, should the city put a hault to this event? People come from all over the nation to spend this weekend in Galveston. They LOVE it! The City of Galveston and all the business on the island make a ton of money during this weekend. Given that 5 or 6 die every year, should the event cease to exist?

I think about how people die every single day doing dumb things like smoking or driving drunk and then some people die doing what they love like sky diving or climbing Mount Everest. I am just glad the space program didn't close up shop with the Challenger disaster.

This may be way off topic, and I am not sure if any of this will make sense to you.

Anyone else on this forum want to make sense of the Bonfire on Campus situation? Please...ring in!

Now I see where you are going. I have a hard time seeing the University of Texas publicizing tours of of the bell tower to see where shootings took place. I think they would more publicize taking the tour to see the view. If there is a memorial plaque at the top, does this mean that the univeristy made a profit off of those who died? I would like to think the money may be put to good use for the betterment of the university.

Now I think about all the memorials and presidential libraries I have visited. I remember the Anne Frank house and visiting the book depository where JFK was shot. I have paid money either to enter or give freely at each one of these places. Have I also done wrong in the name of the deceased?