https://www.concordantgospel.com/wp-content/uploads/Bible-truths-you-wont-hear-at-church.pdf#page231

Never heard of him. Just skimming a couple pages; the gist I am getting is a type of universalism. Is that right?

10andBOUNCE said:

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Never heard of him. Just skimming a couple pages; the gist I am getting is a type of universalism. Is that right?

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Read it and find out. Hard to dispute what he writes in my opinion. All based on Scripture.

And he talks about skimming it. You can't do that and understand what he is saying.

Looking for a Readers Digest version

10andBOUNCE said:

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Looking for a Readers Digest version

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Spending time reading is good for the soul. Read it slowly, read all the Scripture it links, and meditate on it. We rush too much.

Be still and know I am God.

And actually his thoughts are Calvinistic. Except for limited atonement.

This link starts at the beginning.

https://www.concordantgospel.com/wp-content/uploads/Bible-truths-you-wont-hear-at-church.pdf#page231

At lease a summary of a 500 page PDF would be nice. It's not like it will be the only thing we are reading.

It is well worth the read. And hard to argue with any of his thoughts.

The author doesn't consider himself Christian anymore

Cynic said:

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The author doesn't consider himself Christian anymore

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From my reading he says he is in the body of Christ which he differentiates from being a "Christian". I agree with him.
Here is the whole article I believe you are quoting from.
https://christianheretic.com/author/christianheretic_0yh8dm/

And I challenge anyone to read the PDF I linked completely and find anything Scripturally incorrect. Maybe the most exhaustive exegesis I have read. Tons of scripture and he definitely believes in Jesus Christ as his Lord and Savior.

But you can't skim and pick one sentence out.

I actually think it would a great Bible study for a group.

In fact, Drew Costen repeatedly says you can not skim and pick sentences out as a means of criticism. You have to read the entire thing. And then try to call him wrong. I think he is right.

I think there is a lot of false theology and soteriology being taught. And intellectual laziness.

It sounds like a scam if I have to read a 500-page document and nobody will summarize it.

Here is his conclusion.
"I could go on and on about the multitude of ideas that those within the
Christian religion are confused about thanks to the flawed assumptions they
begin with, and a lack of desire to actually take the time to dig into what the
Bible really says, preferring to simply accept what their religious leaders teach
instead, but that should be more than enough to explain why I couldn't ever
return to Christianity and why I no longer "go to church." Of course, at this
point the real question isn't why I couldn't return to the Christian religion, but
why you yourself might still consider having anything to do with such an
unscriptural, not to mention harmful, institution (and why you would risk your
soul within its "sanctuaries")."

I would stay away from this guy.

Cynic said:

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It sounds like a scam if I have to read a 500-page document and nobody will summarize it.

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Well I guess then just believe what some guy tells you on Sunday. Not trying to be a jerk, but that is one of Drew's biggest arguments. The Bible takes a long time to read. That is why I have done Bible in a year for the past 5-6 years. I learn more everyday.

He painstakingly goes through Scripture very thoroughly. Much like David Bentley Hart.

And saying that Drew says he is no longer a Christian is based on rapidly skimming his material.

Quote:

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Well I guess then just believe what some guy tells you on Sunday. Not trying to be a jerk, but that is one of Drew's biggest arguments

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The "some guy" has way more credentials and credibility than this guy. Do you think the general pastor has not closely read the bible?

I'm supposed to believe a guy who had to self-publish his book that he has it right and nobody else does?

That's how cults start.

Cynic said:

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It sounds like a scam if I have to read a 500-page document and nobody will summarize it.

Here is his conclusion.
"I could go on and on about the multitude of ideas that those within the
Christian religion are confused about thanks to the flawed assumptions they
begin with, and a lack of desire to actually take the time to dig into what the
Bible really says, preferring to simply accept what their religious leaders teach
instead, but that should be more than enough to explain why I couldn't ever
return to Christianity and why I no longer "go to church." Of course, at this
point the real question isn't why I couldn't return to the Christian religion, but
why you yourself might still consider having anything to do with such an
unscriptural, not to mention harmful, institution (and why you would risk your
soul within its "sanctuaries")."

I would stay away from this guy.

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Disagree. But unlike you, I read through the entire thing. Disagree with Augustine on his view that unbaptized babies go to hell (albeit not a really "bad"hell) but that does not mean I do not read him.

Unlike Drew, I still go to church and weekly Bible study. I think fellowship is important.

I do agree with his research on his soteriology and theology.

I just do not think you can take snippets from a five hundred page PDF or the Bible for that matter and come to a meaningful understanding of the material. But that is just me.

God bless and have a great day!

Cynic said:

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Quote:

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Well I guess then just believe what some guy tells you on Sunday. Not trying to be a jerk, but that is one of Drew's biggest arguments

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The "some guy" has way more credentials and credibility than this guy. Do you think the general pastor has not closely read the bible?

I'm supposed to believe a guy who had to self-publish his book that he has it right and nobody else does?

That's how cults start.

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I regard Drew Costen just like my pastor or anyone else. I will read and listen and attempt to use critical thinking and exegesis to middle through it. And pray for Holy Spirit discernment.

Drew Costen is some guy also. They are all men and make mistakes. As do I.

And I respect your judgement also.

Cynic said:

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(and why you would risk your
soul within its "sanctuaries")."

I would stay away from this guy.

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If one is a universalist, how can one say your soul is at risk? That doesn't make sense at all.

And yes, I clearly did not read all 500 pages

dermdoc said:

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Cynic said:

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It sounds like a scam if I have to read a 500-page document and nobody will summarize it.

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Well I guess then just believe what some guy tells you on Sunday. Not trying to be a jerk, but that is one of Drew's biggest arguments. The Bible takes a long time to read. That is why I have done Bible in a year for the past 5-6 years. I learn more everyday.

He painstakingly goes through Scripture very thoroughly. Much like David Bentley Hart.

And saying that Drew says he is no longer a Christian is based on rapidly skimming his material.

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This is why the Church Jesus left is so important. I believe that to be the Catholic Church, but if it isn't, then it's the Orthodox. We are discussing things that have been put to bed many, many centuries ago by a large body of very learned men that were much closer to the apostles and their immediate replacements than any of us will ever be. Historical Christian thought isn't from "some guy". It's thousands of learned men working it out together, with the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

I get the idea that we don't just believe something because somebody else tells us to, but we're already doing that with the Bible. God has not told anyone (or at least anyone I know) that the Bible is the inerrant word of God personally. They have been told by their pastors, priests, etc. Yet when it comes to other historical teachings, people want to toss that out and hope they can get to the right answer by themselves. It doesn't work, and it's why we're seeing a return to traditional things like the creeds by Protestant groups.

And there it is, if you disagree with his conclusions you are not a real believer. If you are a true believer you stay home on Saturday and Sunday or you somehow find a group that believes exactly what he does. Otherwise, you are harming yourself. He thinks there is only a small group of real believers which of course he is part of.

Quote:

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Unfortunately, this means that some who have made it all the way through this
book might not be sure what to believe, or will think it's so foreign to what they
were taught growing up that they'll simply reject it out of hand, which could
just mean that God hasn't chosen them to be a member of the body of Christ, or
at least perhaps hasn't called them yet. However, for those chosen few of you
who do dig deeper and then realize that you need to reject organized religion
and the teachings and practices of Christianity, you'll be left wondering what
you should do instead

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I do not agree with everything he says.

But I do agree with him that Jesus's death and resurrection were for all of mankind's sins. Past, present, and future. And that is the only thing that brings true peace.

And I wish that peace for everyone.