Just heard from a current resident that they are going to turn Moses into an all freshman coed dorm next year. They cited low academics, high vandalism, and high discipline issues as reasons for kicking the students out.

How are they kicking students out if it will still be a dorm?

they are kicking the current residents out and only letting freshman in.

[This message has been edited by Pro Sandy (edited 2/19/2007 10:07p).]

Maybe if they weren't such morons, it wouldn't happen. Moses has had consistently low hall gpa's (like among the 3 worst on campus for several years) and they destroy their hall. Their RA's are useless and a disgrace to the job.

You can argue that they are targeting a dorm that is big into bonfire, but the student bonfire guys need to get their act together and prove to someone that matters that bonfire can actually give something back to campus. This tradition has been so *******ized by the people in moses, walton and to a lesser extent moore that they have killed whatever positive things that bonfire had to offer.

Tell those guys to quite taking pride in the fact that they destroy their hall and do poorly in school. Show them that bonfire is a good thing, because in all honesty, anyone with real experience and without rose colored glasses can tell that student bonfire hasn't had a net positive impact on campus in years.

You can never kill Moses Hall....

I have 3.3 and I live in Moses...

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Show them that bonfire is a good thing, because in all honesty, anyone with real experience and without rose colored glasses can tell that student bonfire hasn't had a net positive impact on campus in years.

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this could be because Reslife REFUSES to recognize Student Bonfire. if they would recognize it and integrate it into dorm life like it was before the collapse, I bet there could be a much better on campus situation. however, they HATE Bonfire, refuse to recognize it for its team and character building, and I personally have been threatened with being fired and evicted from campus for participating (I was an RA).

Aggiecheer, expand upon this... why does ResLife hate bonfire? I've been here since my sophomore year and never lived on campus, if you could just shed a little light onto the whole situation...

ResLife hates Bonfire because it tends to attract people who have a "**** ResLife" attitude. Of course, this is largely because ResLife's anti-Bonfire propaganda scares the "civilized" dorms away. It's a vicious circle.

Why it started in the first place, I don't remember.

liability and vandalism issues - that's why it started

ResLife CANNOT recognize student bonfire and integrate it. Their hands are tied. Anyone affiliated with the university is in a hard spot with bonfire.

And if you were an RA and don't understand that then you were a piss poor RA and you deserved to be threatened with firing.

You cannot hide behind RA's supposedly being so Anti-Bonfire because you yourself were one, and I know for a fact that the RA's in moses (and walton in years past) did not lift a finger to stop the crap that the bonfire people pull. Moses boys aren't destroying the hall in protest of ResLife, they are doing it because they are immature and stupid, because reslife has next to no presence in those halls.

It is absolutely stupid to say that they are making asses of themselves and destroying the hall because of ResLife. They are solely responsible for their actions, and the way that you try to pawn it off on ResLife means that YOU are part of the problem.

If you want to know why bonfire has such a bad name on campus, look at bonfire, and no where else. If they got their **** together and played the game even a little bit things would loosen up a whole lot.

Even if you don't believe this, you have got to realize that what is being done by ISN'T WORKING and ResLife will continue to systematically destroy all of the bonfire strongholds because they are ruining the living experience of all those that choose to not be involved in bonfire.

If you want respect, earn it. Quit screaming "its a tradition, it has to be good"

I have dealt with the bonfire guys first hand, and I know why they do what they do.

[This message has been edited by TMoney2007 (edited 2/20/2007 11:20p).]

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This tradition has been so *******ized by the people in moses, walton and to a lesser extent moore that they have killed whatever positive things that bonfire had to offer.

Tell those guys to quite taking pride in the fact that they destroy their hall and do poorly in school. Show them that bonfire is a good thing, because in all honesty, anyone with real experience and without rose colored glasses can tell that student bonfire hasn't had a net positive impact on campus in years.

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1. Hey bud, the tradition wouldn't EXIST anymore if it wasn't organized by moses, Walton, etc.

Oh, and despite the fact that moses sux, they are redass, so go back to Southside if you wanna play some ping-pong and have pizza parties. (not to say i don't love pizza parties).

2. you are a complete moron if you think student bonfire isn't a positive thing in these kids lives. The skills of communication, hard work, and leadership will help them go far in life.

Bottom Line: You don't know what you are talking about.

I'm sorry sir, you do not know what you are talking about.

If this is what the tradition always was... then it was way overhyped. I don't pretend like I have seen all of it, but the things that bonfire people do to the people that aren't involved are atrocious.

If bonfire is such a great thing for the participants, why are the halls that are the most into bonfire the worst performing halls academically? People don't come to college to build stack. They come to get degrees, and the washout rate in Walton while I was there was ridiculous. How exactly is pissing, puking and ****ting where you live such a great experience? How could you let your friends, with your full knowledge destroy all usefulness of the kitchen (a blessing on this campus)? How could you let these thing happen to the place you live, the place that you supposedly hold so freaking sacred and not make a single attempt to stop it?

I'm sorry, but you have absolutely no sense of reality when it comes to the affects that you and your friend's actions have on others.

It may seem like a positive experience for the people involved, but I did not say that it wasn't. I said that bonfire hadn't had a NET POSITIVE IMPACT ON CAMPUS in years. You guys may have fun and make friends, but you are making on campus living hell for everyone else.

edit: I was an RA for two years, and I probably wrote you up while I was there. And if I didn't, considering how you talk, someone else did, or should have. You guys were out of control. You guys were always immature and you made that hall the hellhole that it was. You guys did your best to destroy anything nice that the hall received. I don't believe that what you people are carrying on is what the bonfire tradition is meant to be. If this is what bonfire truly always was, then good riddance.

[This message has been edited by TMoney2007 (edited 2/20/2007 11:54p).]

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but the things that bonfire people do to the people that aren't involved are atrocious.

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please, t-money, enlighten me with an example.

ATROCIOUS? t-money give me a break and put your thesaurus up for the night. Don't ever use the word 'atrocious' again unless you are describing some type of beating or murder.

Campus is now a LIVING HELL? Are you kidding me? You need to get a grip t-money.

So when were you an RA in Walton? Oh, and if you are good buddies with that Otis character, wow, I question your sense of intelligence.

I will be going to bed soon but i hope to get back to you on this. nighty night t-money!

WALTON LOADS!

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edit: I was an RA for two years, and I probably wrote you up while I was there. And if I didn't, considering how you talk, someone else did, or should have. You guys were out of control. You guys were always immature and you made that hall the hellhole that it was. You guys did your best to destroy anything nice that the hall received. I don't believe that what you people are carrying on is what the bonfire tradition is meant to be. If this is what bonfire truly always was, then good riddance.

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probably did. I won't blame you, but why so bitter?

yes, TMoney, you know everything about me. because I wanted to participate in something that I believed in, I must be an awful RA. for your information, I was BEGGED to come back as a hall director, but this was one of the many reasons I decided not to.

I know why Reslife isn't involved in Bonfire. I'm not stupid. I just don't think that they can stop students from doing this stuff on their own time. my point to them was: what I do on my own time is my own. I wasn't organizing a dorm, I wasn't even wearing my hall colors or tshirt. nothing that said "Reslife" on it. hell, I joined Off-Campus Hogs, no on-campus group whatsoever. didn't matter to them. Luke was chomping at the bit for me to just go ahead and get fired so we could sue the hell out of Reslife for firing someone who participated ON THEIR OWN TIME, but I respected my job and my HD too much (and they paid well once you got past the first year). that, and I didn't want to spend years in court. I attended and that was as much as I could do.

and I never said the RA's were anti-Bonfire, I said ResLife was. when I say Reslife, I mean the administration. every RA I talked to wished that they could go out to cut and stack and be with their dorms, but they were too scared to even attend Burn.

but you have your opinion, I have mine. just so you know, you seem to be the only person on Reslife's side. I would love to see you say this stuff on the Bonfire forum.

TMoney - where did you work? who are you?



[This message has been edited by showtime (edited 2/21/2007 8:48a).]

I got kicked out of Walton after living there for two years, they never caught me doing anything, CAUGHT being the key word. But then again I did live in the strong hold known as I. And T-Money you never wrote me up, but Im more than positive I was a thorn in your side, RA's just werent quick enough to get me.


WALTON LOADS

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you are a complete moron if you think student bonfire isn't a positive thing in these kids lives.

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This is exactly what I reference in my latest thread over in the Bonfire Forum. I do agree with T in many regards. Bonfire was not about the difference it made in an individual's life, but about the difference it made in the university. Now it's about this...and it breeds the sort of idiocy that occurs to SUCH a great degree that one of bonfire's dorms was disbanded and sissified.

Bottom line, if the culture of ASB had not been to give the finger to authority and to bite the hand that feeds, perhaps a more cohesive bond could be formed. It's jackasses like those in Moses causing THOUSANDS of dollars in damage to their dorm and idiot deads at bonfire being TOTALLY careless and reckless that or so counteractive to any measures being taken to get Bonfire back on campus.

Clearly it's not about Bonfire anymore, it's about you.

Unfortunately, going to college is about going to college, not seeing how much stuff you can break in a pissing contest with the idiots two floors down. If you are going to do this, please, get the hell out of my university and don't ruin others' experience here due to your immaturity.

Get your grades up Moses and quit acting like fools. Too late.

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Unfortunately, going to college is about going to college...

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Actually, there's nothing "unfortunate" about that. I was once told that there is a time and place for everything, and that place is "college."

While I am a former student (graduated with a degree in electrical engineering - 3.86 cumulative GPA), I still consider myself to be an RAB from MOSES HALL. The friendships formed and the bonds forged while participating in shenanigans and tom-foolery of the "immature" variety remain strong to this day. I know a few men who got into some trouble following graduation (non-Moses residents) who attributed some of their actions to "sowing their oats" - something they wished they had gotten out of their system while IN COLLEGE.

Everybody knows that "college students" are the most mature, knowledgeable, and conscientous class of citizenry existing in the world today. To think otherwise is naive and whimsical. RIGHT.

College-aged males living together in tightly-knit communities, forming bonds of friendship, and enduring various forms of stress provided by the rigorous academic requirements for which Texas A&M University is well respected in the business community, will manage to get into some "trouble" and "destroy" some property.

My college experiences (not including academics) remain my fondest memories, taught me the most valuable life lessons I've learned to-date, and have helped me to become (IMHO) a good person.

Those experiences came from Moses Hall. And, those experiences weren't always "legal" or "ethical" or "safe" or "considerate." But, that doesn't mean that no benefit was gained from them, and that they proved to be a valuable asset in becoming a man of character.

[This message has been edited by BTHOB (edited 2/23/2007 1:40p).]

A large collection of drunk male college students are going to be loud, obnoxious, destructive, unruly and chaotic regardless of what or who they are involved with. Bonfire is not the cause nor reason why Moses, Walton, Northside in general are the way they are. You just point out that one characteristic of the community that you think is responsible and place all the blame on it. And if you do go and blame bonfire for it, then you have prejudged the entire community.

So does the culture of bonfire not contribute to this sort of immature and destructive behavior?

Simple answer, yes or no?

Simple answer to a question that is irrelevant.

wow.

That was a piss poor attempt at dodging a question by the way.

Yes. There are residents of moses who are destructive, drunk, and all around chaotic. Some of them also happen to participate in bonfire.


But what is your point?

My point is this:

Do you think that bonfire's attitude and culture contributed in any way to these young men behaving the way they do/did?

I for one don't believe that the two are mutually exclusive of one another. So then I am forced to ask myself, did the bad behavior lead them to bonfire, or did bonfire lead them to bad behavior? What do you think?

If bonfire was the major contributor to the Moses culture, why are they the only dorm with such extreme levels of destruction? Do bonfire people in FHK, Lechner, Crocker or Moore Gravity Test like the RABs? Does another dorm have as infamous an off campus party house as the Old Man Shack. Is any other dorm currently being systematically destroyed like Moses just was. I'm not denying the fact that Moses guys are to put it plainly chaotic. Wanton destruction of University property was par for the course for the dorm leaders. But if there are select individuals responsible for the destruction, then you punish them...not the entire &(*$@& dorm. FHK & Moses may have had a rather destructive dorm rivalry in the past few years and at times I really hated Moses, but what the University did to them is flat out wrong.


Your line of logic is flawed at best. Just replace "bonfire culture" with "skin color" and "destructive tendencies" with say..."drug usage in the inner city" and you prejudge an entire community based on the actions of small (often times loud and vocal) minority.


All of Moses did not deserve the fate of complete community annihilation.



RIP RAB 2007.

Those that behave in the same way Moses did are sure to have the same fate. They received the death penalty because their behavior was most attrocious, other such behavior occurs in the other dorms you mention, and if it gravitates to the same level, the university should do the same...and rightfully so.

To say that bonfire culture is not at least partially to blame for this is to be looking at this whole situation with...flaming sunglasses...if you will. Bonfire would do well to take a lesson from this. The entire culture is at risk, it should be interesting to see how that group chooses to react to this happening.

Your prejudice line was a little absurd...by the way.

I never stated in any post that bonfire had NO influence. But you and I sit on opposite sides of the 'how much influence' line. Moses Hall would have acted like Moses Hall with or without Bonfire.


On my analogy:

Do you judge the bonfire culture as a whole based on the actions of a select few? Yes or no?

Or do you prefer to generalize about them all based on your experiences?

Your actions & posts on texags has proven time and time again you have long ago prejudged the bonfire culture as a whole. My analogy stands true.


And I don't disagree with you that bonfire SHOULD moderate itself. I just don't agree with the punishment that was thrown down upon Moses Hall as a whole for the actions of a select few.

I'm pressed for time, so let's see...

No, it's based on more than a few.

My experiences contribute to my opinions, yes...isn't that the most accurate way for opinions to be formed?

Saying your analogy stands true doesn't make it so...boy...you would love for that to be the case.

And that's great!

I'm out...off to enjoy this wonderful day.

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Moses Hall would have acted like Moses Hall with or without Bonfire.

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Having been at A&M in 2000 and 2001, I'll have to agree with you.

Having lived there in three different academic years, building Bonfire with them, getting kicked out of the dorm, and having my own wide experiences with both RHA and ResLife, I'd like to weigh in on this subject.

I'd like to start with a rather apt quote for the rest of Northside residents and Student Bonfire participants.

"In Germany, they first came for the gypsies, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a gypsy. Then they came for the Bolsheviks, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Bolshevik. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the trade unionists and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist. Then they came for the Catholics. I didn't speak up then because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak up." - Martin Niemoller, A Lutheran Pastor arrested by the Gestapo in 1937

As far as Moses goes, yeah, we (I use the term not for a specific group within Moses, but as a general term for all residents) may have torn our dorm up, and done it repeatedly, but can you cite one instance where all damages were not payed for by the residents? Can you show a single resident that did not pay their share of the charges, regardless of their participation in the destruction? Simply put, no. Every single time something was destroyed, it was payed for by the residents, either as an individual or in a group billing by floor. What I __CAN__ show you are damages that were paid for, and __REPAIRS__ paid for that were never performed. Bathroom stalls that were broken, that the residents were charged for both materials AND repairs, when repairs where NEVER MADE.


Was the destruction merited? No, probably not. Was it intentional? Probably, or done under the influence of alcohol (this is speculation). However, how is it tolerable for the Texas A&M Department of Resident Life to bill the residents for repairs that physically did not take place? How is it that Moses guys are the problem, but when the University's own departments commit fraud that it's OUR fault? Because I sure as all hell wouldn't tolerate that sort of behavior out of a housing contractor, an exterminator, or a car mechanic. In fact, I'd probably turn him over to the police and take him to court.

As for low dorm GPAs as a reason to change the residents, I'd like to point out that there is one person responsible for each student's GPA. And that person is the individual in question. It's not up to dorm leadership, RAs, Corps Staff, Ran Sasse, or Reveille. It's up to each individual student to maintain their GPA. For the University to state that as a reason for a change of residents is a crock. At that point, they're telling every student who reads about it that the people that lived there with low grades had zero decision making capabilities, and absolutely no free will. What an example to set.

We had it coming. That I won't deny. And I wouldn't expect the other dorms to rally around us the way they did Hotard and Legget. But guess what, they're eliminating one-by-one the dorms that have enough spine to stand up to ResLife's BS and rally around each other. If you live on Northside, you're next.


RIP Andrew W. Moses Hall.
65 years all-male.
32 years of Bonfire tradition, unbroken lines, and hard work.
19 years of Moses Games, the unity and friendly rivalry amongst the floors.

I lived in Moses, participated in most things, was a bench f__k and always had over a 3.0. Can't prove causality without an experiement.

Which body on campus was All-U Champion during 2001-2002?