I will also be posting this in the Inconseavable boat project thread, but I have a question - one that I am pretty sure I already know the answer to, but I am certainly not an expert.

I just got the quote back for just the parts for the starboard engine rebuild. Literally just a pass through from the parts shop, the email was attached?

OEM parts: Around $16,000

Aftermarket parts (Im assuming China): $3860

Are the OEM parts really worth 4 times as much? I don't have a brand name on those. I was kind of expecting OEM to be 2x, but 4x surprised me...

Any input?

Thanks for the response,

AF98

Agfencer98 said:

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I will also be posting this in the Inconseavable boat project thread, but I have a question - one that I am pretty sure I already know the answer to, but I am certainly not an expert.

I just got the quote back for just the parts for the starboard engine rebuild. Literally just a pass through from the parts shop, the email was attached?

OEM parts: Around $16,000

Aftermarket parts (Im assuming China): $3860

Are the OEM parts really worth 4 times as much? I don't have a brand name on those. I was kind of expecting OEM to be 2x, but 4x surprised me...

Any input?

Thanks for the response,

AF98

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I don't know marine diesel stuff specifically, but if it is like other industries, the OEM manufacturer will try to say that using non-OEM parts will void their warranty, so they can charge those prices to people wanting to maintain a warranty. For folks in your situation with no warranty to worry about, I suspect the answer is no, the OEM part is not worth 4X the non-OEM price. Just be sure you are buying the non-OEM from somebody with good not paid for reviews and not a history of failures.

OEM parts for bigger diesels are always outrageous. Cummins, CAT, Detroit, MTU…doesn't matter they will bend you over for parts and service. Particularly the German manufactured/owned companies. Detroit (who is now owned by Deutz) and MTU are really bad with pricing, but I typically deal with OEM shops due to the warranty issues for our equipment.
Since you are not covered under warranty, then I would most certainly not pay for OEM. There is a great chance that the OEM are parts made somewhere in Mexico or Asia anyways.

If it were me I'd take a chance on the non oem.

Currently awaiting a Cummins diagnosis/autopsy on an engine at work. If its rebuildable I'd go with non oem parts if available on it.

That is absolutely the direction I am leaning - I just wanted some confirmation that I was not thinking incorrectly.

Complete rebuild and complete set of spares for half the price of OEM.

What I have learned in marine industry rebuilds, whether it be inboard or outboard engines, as far as non OEM parts…..is there are good quality aftermarket parts and there are poor quality aftermarket parts. They are not all created equal.
One should do his due diligence on researching the parts true country of origin and also the terms and conditions of the warranty of said parts.
I have seen folks go the "cheapest price possible" aftermarket route with the assumption that "parts are parts" and that they are all the same quality ….. in some instances that can be a bad assumption.
I've watched guys spend good money on rebuilds using the cheapest aftermarket parts, only to have failures….. and end up spending twice the money as they would have originally using higher quality, more expensive parts.
Given the particular part/component, there are examples where the OEM parts are the best choice in the long run.
Example: Tiara built a 42' Sportfisher that used Volvo Pinta diesels. A colleague of mine owned one and he rebuilt the engines. He used a lot of aftermarket parts…..one in particular being the fuel pumps. After the rebuild he kept having multiple fuel pump failures till he finally replaced them with Volvo Pinta OEM fuel pumps…..never had an issue again.
Nothing wrong with using aftermarket parts as long as you don't make decisions on all the parts by going the "cheapest cost" as the only factor in your decision.
Doing good solid research on the brand of aftermarket part manufacturers you buy the parts from will help you determine the poor quality aftermarket parts vs good quality aftermarket parts and keep you from throwing good money after bad in the long term.

When I worked in offshore oil logistics and warehousing, I quickly noticed almost all the parts got any machine were re-labeled and extremely marked up products of other specialty manufacturers. Say, a particular injector was originally made by a company that does nothing but make injectors but the engine manufacturer would simply buy them and add their own label on the original box and double or triple the price. That was how you paid for the engine manufacturer warranty: by a record of only buying and using their extremely marked up parts.

We started gathering the OEM part numbers and info from the boxes so we could price buying direct. Eventually the manufacturers started getting wise to this and invested in entirely repackaging the parts in their own boxes to make this more difficult to do. Talking to you, NOV.

I'm going to expand and echo Gunny's experience and advice.

I am almost always dead set on OEM parts or heavy research to locate OEM manufacturers of quality aftermarket parts. Personally, I'd have no problem spending 16k on OEM parts. There is a level of quality that I am confident about and will pay for.

For me, I do most all of my own work. For the price difference in labor cost, I would pay for OEM all day long. But, as I said, it's not money for me, it's labor, and I do not chance aftermarket junk on my work. I don't want to do anything twice. I'm in the middle of a 12 hour timing chain job...I don't want to do it twice because I want to save $600 on parts. If I were paying someone for labor, this would cost me TWO THOUSAND DOLLARS....why would I opt to roll the dice over $600? Doesn't make sense.

What I will generally do is try to locate every single part's OEM manufacturer. For instance, instead of buying the Ford coil, I'll buy the Bosch or Denso. Instead of OEM Ford tensioners or oil pump, I'll get Melling. I buy my parts online and OEM are sometimes not much more than aftermarket.

Some OEM parts are inferior to their aftermarket counterparts, and you'll need to figure out where that is the case.

If you are just paying someone for the work and their warranty is identical, then it may not matter that much. But be aware that a cheap aftermarket part will likely survive a warranty and then die.

I tell my kids that in 30 years of working on stuff I have never saved money by saving money. Ever. It has always cost me more when I try to get cheap. Parts, engines, tools, everything.

If your shop is using quality aftermarket parts, then you are probably fine, but if they are getting some imported "parts house' or "parts supplier" junk, then it probably isn't the best quality.

Think of this this way...your shop is going to make the same profit (likely more on aftermarket) on the job whether you select OEM or aftermarket. They use aftermarket because the customer will pick that due to cost and the profit margin is usually a lot higher. So, if they make the same profit or more after markup on parts, how cheap does that aftermarket part have to be at wholesale cost? Back to my Ford coil....a Denso coil is $23.79 each. The aftermarket import is $7.50. Are they the same quality? Can they be? I have not found that they are.

Well I would say that is a sound wisdom post…but then it would not be giving you or the post the proper justice because it would be an understatement.
So I'll just say blue stars and a great post as usual! Well said. Great sense!

When I was young and had hair I spent about 10 years crewing on Sportfishing boats. About 3 or so full time on traveling boats. I was around several engine rebuilds, one time on a 671 series Detroit.

I am to lazy to go back and look, but I believe the OP has 671 turbos in the boat. Those were good engines mechanically. But the turbos tended to have issues when run hard. The hopped up 671's were put in quite a few 40' to 45' production boats, and some of those got heavy with fixtures and comfort amenities. When pushed those engines tended to run hot.

I worked on a 42' Betram with gussied up 671's, the port engine on that boat always ran hot and had issues. Malcom Phillips guys knew it by name, it was rebuilt twice in a span of 4 years and still ran hot, the starboard engine was always fine for the most part.

Now, if I am not mistaken Detroit quit making the 71 series engines in the mid 90s, so by now I would imagine that there are not any true, absolute, OEM parts left and likely what the Germans are calling OEM are just their preferred qualified supplier.

Given the number of marine 671's out there, all over the world, and truck engines there probably is some decent after market parts available. Are they the ones being recommended? That I don't know.

There might be some on info on the message boards of The Hull Truth forums. There is another boat forum out there, or was, that had some good info but I can't remember the name.

71 series engines are good engines, oil leakers but all Detroits were, but the thing to watch out for are the turbos. I know on that Betram we kept 2 extra sets of turbo blankets for that GD port engine. 871 Naturals will run forever if taken care of, but that is immaterial here.

You are correct, these are the 671TI's. So I have the turbo ones.

And yes, I was definitely warned about the oil, and glad I was, because if I hadn't been, I would have freaked out by that. Ha!

I am on my phone right now, and I don't like doing serious research on the web when on it. But maybe tomorrow I will see what I can find on the Hull Truth. There was another website years ago that had some good boards on it as well. I just can't remember it.

The sound of those 671TIs when wound up and running well is so very nice. The 671's are sleeved engines and I remember that there were a few options for the sleeves, but that was one part(s) that all the folks I was around insisted be top quality.

Have you asked the mechanic if the aftermarket parts you are being offered are to the same specs as the other engine? There were options to increase the performance of both the 71 and 92 series engines, and quite a few folks along the TX and LA coast did so on the late 70s and 80s model boats. Phillips and J&T tricked out a lot of 671's getting the HP way up there.

You are probably going to have to do some serious research, and maybe pull the engine before you have a clear answer as to what to do. But there is so much technology now that these mechanics prolly know by the internal cameras and such.

Where I got a little lucky, is that one of the mechanics working on this boat rebuilt both the engines before, so he has a good working knowledge of the boat. Only problem, is that that was apparently about 7 years ago, and the boat sat.

I have emailed them back, trying to figure out what parts they are using, etc. to get a better idea.

Thanks!

You were using a middle man (NOV) to do the work of finding the parts for you and expected them to not mark it up? Then you get upset that they try to keep some info to themselves to protect future sales. Either deal with engine MFG yourself or pay for the service you are asking middle man (NOV) to provide.

Umm, I'm not sure im following at all. Im not mad, nor do I think that I stated I was. These are great mechanics, and they do not mark up at all. They sent me what they got from their supplier, and I am asking for advice on whether I should spend 4 times more for OEM parts, because, as stated, I am far from an expert. They are asking me to choose, they stated their preference was OEM, but I always look for a second opinion, especially if I dont have the required knowledge.

I will actually pay the parts supplier directly, as they don't want to have to come out of pocket for parts, and I am perfectly fine with that. They are still working up a labor quote, so im taking the time to get some informed opinions, since I am not knowledgeable enough in my mind.

If I came off as mad or frustrated, that was not intended, because I am neither. These mechanics have been great, and I would be thrilled to recommend them to anyone near the Corpus Christi area.

AF98

I was replying to another poster. I apologize for cluttering up the topic.

No worries. Likely just me being tired and confused after a very long day at work. Thanks for clarifying.

I see this is a question of your time. You can rebuild three more times for the cost of the OEM parts. Unlikely to play out that way, but is the savings worth your time in case it did? Fun fact: I'm typing this as my boat is being on-water towed in Galveston. Ugh.

Oof - Sorry to hear that, I've been water towed a couple of times. Never good.