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Legal ramifications against Camp Mystic

108,524 Views | 777 Replies | Last: 11 hrs ago by FM 949
Alta
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Yes, it's safe to say that even if they were able to take the land where Mystic sits (which will be incredibly challenging) the judgements will be so high they will never be satisfied. Remember there are 25 currently (and potentially 27) plaintiffs. Insurance policies could be extinguished, land sold, etc. and there just is not much money there when you divide it by 25 (even before taking into account legal fees).

That's why I think it is very misguided to say the lawsuits are about money . There just is not going to be much money there at the end of the day to satisfy any judgement even if everything goes as favorably as possible for the plaintiffs.
MAS444
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Yes they can be forced to sell assets to cover a judgment but I doubt they have much in the way of physical assets other than the land. They could work out a payment plan but that would be up to the parties to agree to something like that.

The potential "gross negligence" coverage exclusion which is being discussed is a red herring. If the jury found "gross negligence" (which may indeed be excluded by coverage), they'd also find regular negligence (Which would be covered). That's assuming the plaintiffs lawyers wanted to keep a verdict within coverage.
TexasRebel
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Micropterus said:

ttha_aggie_09 said:

I have no idea who or what and Eastland is… owner of the camp?

Is the argument being made that more lives could have been saved had she not done that? I thought this was a 100 year flood that was a terrible tragedy but wasn't aware any discussion of criminal negligence or something more nefarious was at play.

Awful tragedy regardless…


Here's the Cliff's Notes: when you have pre-adolescent/ adolescent children under your care and supervision, your first and primary concern is their well-being and safety 24 hrs/day. Shelter in place was severe negligence in this case and cost lives. Building a cabin in a flood plain is negligent as well, regardless of frequency of occurrence.


Every square inch of land is in a flood plain if it rains enough.
TexasRebel
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dermdoc said:

Until the parents are okay with re opening any Mystic camp, they should not open in my opinion.


This is how good (overall) things are lost forever.

By not opening, hundreds of children each year are deprived of the life experience. After a few years, and with a growing gap in the stories and relatability, the experience is gone.
dermdoc
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TexasRebel said:

dermdoc said:

Until the parents are okay with re opening any Mystic camp, they should not open in my opinion.


This is how good (overall) things are lost forever.

By not opening, hundreds of children each year are deprived of the life experience. After a few years, and with a growing gap in the stories and relatability, the experience is gone.


I stand by my statement. We disagree. Wanting your daughters to experience something does not take away liability, lack of planning, etc. that in my opinion led to 27 preventable deaths.

And with all due respect, nobody thinks it will happen to them until it does. I have been guilty of that attitude myself. Want the experience, ain't skeered. Until it happens to you. And I pray it never does happen to you.

And Mary Grace's "experience" is gone forever. And she was a "good thing".
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
Marvin_Zindler
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TexasRebel said:

dermdoc said:

Until the parents are okay with re opening any Mystic camp, they should not open in my opinion.


This is how good (overall) things are lost forever.

By not opening, hundreds of children each year are deprived of the life experience. After a few years, and with a growing gap in the stories and relatability, the experience is gone.

I will not claim to speak for them, but I get the sense that the families would be fine if Mystic re-opened in the future...and possibly even for next summer. Almost to the man, they have all said that they love summer camps and want kids to attend them. But I think Alli Naylor summed of the collective sentiment best at the hearing last week. The Eastlands have forever lost the privilege to care for anyone's children ever again.
dermdoc
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Marvin_Zindler said:

TexasRebel said:

dermdoc said:

Until the parents are okay with re opening any Mystic camp, they should not open in my opinion.


This is how good (overall) things are lost forever.

By not opening, hundreds of children each year are deprived of the life experience. After a few years, and with a growing gap in the stories and relatability, the experience is gone.

I will not claim to speak for them, but I get the sense that the families would be fine if Mystic re-opened in the future...and possibly even for next summer. Almost to the man, they have all said that they love summer camps and want kids to attend them. But I think Alli Naylor summed of the collective sentiment best at the hearing last week. The Eastlands have forever lost the privilege to care for anyone's children ever again.

Agree. My family loves the concept of Mystic. They also believe the Eastlands were inept, incompetent, and their lack of planning and appropriate actions resulted in 27 preventable deaths. The 2 entities need to be separated to critically assess and judge them.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
TexasRebel
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On the other hand, they can now draw from experience that green camp admin cannot.


Would you rather have the 60 year old surgeon who has made mistakes or the 20 year old who hasn't?
Chipotlemonger
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TexasRebel said:

On the other hand, they can now draw from experience that green camp admin cannot.


Would you rather have the 60 year old surgeon who has made mistakes or the 20 year old who hasn't?

This is a a straw poll argument you're making here.
mpl35
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Chipotlemonger said:

TexasRebel said:

On the other hand, they can now draw from experience that green camp admin cannot.


Would you rather have the 60 year old surgeon who has made mistakes or the 20 year old who hasn't?

This is a a straw poll argument you're making here.

straw POLL.
Marvin_Zindler
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TexasRebel said:

On the other hand, they can now draw from experience that green camp admin cannot.


Would you rather have the 60 year old surgeon who has made mistakes or the 20 year old who hasn't?

Have the mistakes gotten people killed? Kinda makes a big difference.
TexasRebel
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That would be a result of surgical mistakes.
BrazosDog02
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Marvin_Zindler said:

TexasRebel said:

On the other hand, they can now draw from experience that green camp admin cannot.


Would you rather have the 60 year old surgeon who has made mistakes or the 20 year old who hasn't?

Have the mistakes gotten people killed? Kinda makes a big difference.


I think that's what these millions of dollars of pissed away money are trying to determine.
DannyDuberstein
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Camps in Texas have not been canceled. A wonderful experience and meaningful life does not require the Eastlands. The thinking that it does is quite bizarre
cheeky
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dermdoc said:

MAS444 said:

I agree in theory but high risk + lots of coverage is very expensive. And many carriers won't even insure at higher levels. I've never had a case against a summer camp but have against similar type establishments (large water parka, amusement parka etc). Some that are very large and do tons of business. And often only 1 - 3 MM in coverage.

Agree. I would bet Mystic had a 2-3 million dollar umbrella policy. It will be interesting to see if the plaintiff attorneys can "Pierce the veil".

Close to zero chance, and as it should be. This is/was a high risk business. You can't insure enough to cover potential liability. Without asset protection strategies these businesses could not and would not exist.

The only money exchanged in this tragedy that will make a difference will be to the lawyers. And this is a case that the plaintiffs should win, but financial recovery to them will be minuscule in comparison. The real remedy is to punish the Eastlands beyond money, and I think that is exactly what we see happening now.
Marvin_Zindler
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cheeky said:

dermdoc said:

MAS444 said:

I agree in theory but high risk + lots of coverage is very expensive. And many carriers won't even insure at higher levels. I've never had a case against a summer camp but have against similar type establishments (large water parka, amusement parka etc). Some that are very large and do tons of business. And often only 1 - 3 MM in coverage.

Agree. I would bet Mystic had a 2-3 million dollar umbrella policy. It will be interesting to see if the plaintiff attorneys can "Pierce the veil".

Close to zero chance, and as it should be. This is/was a high risk business. You can't insure enough to cover potential liability. Without asset protection strategies these businesses could not and would not exist.

The only money exchanged in this tragedy that will make a difference will be to the lawyers. And this is a case that the plaintiffs should win, but financial recovery to them will be minuscule in comparison. The real remedy is to punish the Eastlands beyond money, and I think that is exactly what we see happening now.


Agree completely on the entity structure/corporate veil front.

If the Eastlands do not step away on their own, based on Senator Perry's and others' comments at the hearing last week, the legislature may be willing to do it for them. By the time the '27 camp season rolls around, the TxLeg will be in session. What's to stop them from writing a bill stating, for instance, that no person may operate a youth camp upon whose watch children previously died.

The Eastlands are in a tough spot and I think they alone control whether Mystic exists into the future.
KaneIsAble
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TexasRebel said:

dermdoc said:

Until the parents are okay with re opening any Mystic camp, they should not open in my opinion.


This is how good (overall) things are lost forever.

By not opening, hundreds of children each year are deprived of the life experience. After a few years, and with a growing gap in the stories and relatability, the experience is gone.


Maybe this is accurate but not 1 year later. Bad take. 27 lives are deprived of life experiences and that trumps future gains of others. I struggle to understand the logic at all.
dermdoc
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cheeky said:

dermdoc said:

MAS444 said:

I agree in theory but high risk + lots of coverage is very expensive. And many carriers won't even insure at higher levels. I've never had a case against a summer camp but have against similar type establishments (large water parka, amusement parka etc). Some that are very large and do tons of business. And often only 1 - 3 MM in coverage.

Agree. I would bet Mystic had a 2-3 million dollar umbrella policy. It will be interesting to see if the plaintiff attorneys can "Pierce the veil".

Close to zero chance, and as it should be. This is/was a high risk business. You can't insure enough to cover potential liability. Without asset protection strategies these businesses could not and would not exist.

The only money exchanged in this tragedy that will make a difference will be to the lawyers. And this is a case that the plaintiffs should win, but financial recovery to them will be minuscule in comparison. The real remedy is to punish the Eastlands beyond money, and I think that is exactly what we see happening now.


Agree. If the Eastlands are gone, I believe the plaintiffs will be okay. No matter the financial settlement. And camps will be safer without their involvement.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
dermdoc
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No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
Marvin_Zindler
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Following up on Derm's OP in this thread, Mary Liz's nursing license has been suspended:



The reddit swamp lists out all of charges that led to this. To say that it does not look good is an understatement. There are 6 individual charges listed, but this one was the big one that caught my eye:

Charge 5
On or about March 1, 2025, through July 6, 2025, while serving as a Registered Nurse, Supervising Nurse, Camp Nurse, Director, and Chief Health Officer with Camp Mystic, Hunt, Texas,Respondent inappropriately delegated the authorization for staff nurses to assess, diagnose and administer Phenergan suppositories, Zofran, Zithromax, Amoxicillin, Prednisone, Albuterol, and Epinephrine to campers without prior physician assessment and recommendation. Instead, Respondent allowed staff to notify the camp doctor within twenty-four (24) hours of starting the medication for a follow-up appointment in office. Respondent's conduct exposed campers unnecessarily to a risk of harm from interventions provided without the benefit of a physician's expertise.
BrazosDog02
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For completeness:



CHARGE I.
Prior to July 4, 2025, while serving as a Registered Nurse, Supervising Nurse, Camp Nurse, Director, and Chief Health Officer with Camp Mystic, Hunt, Texas, Respondent failed to develop and maintain adequate emergency plans and emergency training protocols for campers, staff and camp nurses at Camp Mystic. Moreover, Respondent should have been aware of Camp Mystic's experiences during previous catastrophic flooding events but failed to develop and implement inadequate emergency shelter plan and/or evacuation plan. Respondent's lack of emergency preparedness for herself and her camp nurses was likely to injure campers and staff in that it created and/or maintained an unsafe environment and likely resulted in physical harm, emotional harm, psychological harm, and loss of life to campers and staff in an emergency or disaster at Camp Mystic.

CHARGE II.
During and after the catastrophic flooding event on or about July 4, 2025, while serving as a Registered Nurse, Supervising Nurse, Camp Nurse, Director, and Chief Health Officer with Camp Mystic, Hunt, Texas, Respondent failed to implement or maintain adequate shelter and evacuation protocols to protect campers and staff during and after an emergency or disaster at Camp Mystic. Respondent's conduct was likely to injure campers and staff in that it created an unsafe environment and may have unnecessarily exposed campers and staff to physical harm, emotional harm, psychological harm, and loss of life.

CHARGE III.
On or about July 4, 2025, while serving as a Registered Nurse, Supervising Nurse, Camp Nurse, Director, and Chief Health Officer with Camp Mystic, Hunt, Texas, Respondent abandoned the campers and staff when the camp site began to flood at approximately 0200 by evacuating herself and her children to higher ground without providing any assistance or direction to all of the other campers and staff. Further, Respondent failed to contact the nursing staff via phone to provide
direction and/or emergency instruction at any time. Finally, Respondent failed to contact emergency services at any time during the event or after she became aware campers and/or staff were missing and unaccounted for. Subsequently, no less than twenty-seven (27) campers and staff members passed away in the flood waters. Respondent's conduct exposed the campers and staff unnecessarily to risk of harm in that leaving the area without helping others during and after the catastrophic event likely resulted in the campers and staff not getting the health care, support, and
supervision they needed to manage physical harm, emotional harm, psychological harm, and loss of life.

CHARGE IV.
On or about July 4, 2025, through March 31, 2026, while serving as a Registered Nurse, Supervising Nurse, Camp Nurse, Director, and Chief Health Officer with Camp Mystic, Hunt, Texas, Respondent failed to report the deaths of no less than of twenty-five (25) campers and two (2) counselors within 24 hours per Texas Administrative Code 265.15. Respondent's conduct was deceptive and denied officials of the State of Texas information needed to regulate the camp site Respondent was administratively responsible for.

CHARGE V.
On or about March 1, 2025, through July 6, 2025, while serving as a Registered Nurse, Supervising Nurse, Camp Nurse, Director, and Chief Health Officer with Camp Mystic, Hunt, Texas,Respondent inappropriately delegated the authorization for staff nurses to assess, diagnose and administer Phenergan suppositories, Zofran, Zithromax, Amoxicillin, Prednisone, Albuterol, and Epinephrine to campers without prior physician assessment and recommendation. Instead, Respondent allowed staff to notify the camp doctor within twenty-four (24) hours of starting the medication for a follow-up appointment in office. Respondent's conduct exposed campers unnecessarily to a risk of harm from interventions provided without the benefit of a physician's expertise.

CHARGE VI.
On or about May 1, 2025, through July 6, 2025, while serving as a Registered Nurse, Supervising Nurse, Camp Nurse, Director, and Chief Health Officer with Camp Mystic, Hunt, Texas, Respondent failed to personally administer medication to campers per Texas Administrative Code 265.15(l) or document written authorization to allow others to administer the medications in her place. In addition, Respondent failed to ensure staff distributed medications in compliance with HIPAA requirements in that staff brought campers medications to the dining halls and other camp areas for distribution. Further, Respondent failed to ensure medications were safely stored in a lockable cabinet or other secure location that was not accessible to campers. Respondent's conduct was in violation of State laws including 25 TEX ADMIN CODE. 265.15 regarding Medical and Nursing Care. Respondent's conduct resulted in incomplete medical records and was likely to injure the campers in that subsequent care givers would rely on her documentation to further
medicate the campers.

The Texas Board of Nursing further finds that, given the nature of the charges, the continued practice of nursing by MARY ELIZABETH EASTLAND constitutes a continuing and imminent threat to public welfare and that the temporary suspension of Permanent Registered Nurse License Number 754060, is justified pursuant to Section 301.455, TEXAS OCCUPATIONS
CODE.

NOW, THEREFORE, IT IS ORDERED that Permanent Registered Nurse License Number 754060, issued to MARY ELIZABETH EASTLAND, to practice nursing in the State of Texas be, and the same is/are, hereby SUSPENDED IMMEDIATELY in accordance with Section 301.455, TEXAS OCCUPATIONS CODE.
91AggieLawyer
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Windy City Ag said:

Quote:

I'm sorry for everyone's loss, and the tragedy of that flood. However, this flood event and the deaths that it caused was not predictable or preventable.


This is where the argument falls apart. A flood of that size should have been in the contingency plan for the camp because it had happened multiple times in recent history including:

  • 1987 - 10 campers died at a location very close to the Mystic due to similarly intense rain and flooding
  • 1988 - 2 campers died in the region due to flash floods
  • 1978 - Camp Mystic itself had an August storm that completely flooded its cabins and the dining hall
And it was preventable because many camps, citing these events, built much more robust flood plans and safely evacuated their camps when the poor kids at Mystic died.

This does not delve into the many policies put in place by the Camp management that actually made things much worse.





People need to stop comparing last summer to 1987. What happened in '87 was not so much a flood, but horrific timing by ONE group of people and it had nothing to do with camp/cabin locations as the camps themselves -- or at least, the cabins -- weren't flooded. The campers that were killed or injured were on a bus LEAVING (i.e. evacuating) the camp when a wall of water hit their bus and a couple of other vehicles. No other kids in any camps or even other vehicles were affected. (And someone made a good point earlier in this thread: what if we had multiple victims in this tragedy -- some people killed while evacuating and others killed while not evacuating; what would the theory of negligence by the Plaintiff's be here?)

What happened in '87 is difficult to explain, but essentially poor timing led the drivers of the vehicles to make what amounted to (later) bad decisions. Once the water rose and one or more vehicles stalled, it was the decision of the bus driver, the kids' church youth guy, to get off the bus into the river. Multiple ones were swept away and 10 were killed. However, when they were leaving the actual camp road (prior to the surge of water that stalled the bus), they had 2 options -- turn the way they did or turn the other way. Had they arrived at that fork 30 seconds earlier, they would have passed and avoided the water's surge completely; had they arrived at the fork 30 seconds later, they would have seen the water surge and not gone the way they did.

Comparing Comfort 1987 to Mystic 2025 is a little like comparing a vehicle accident caused by a defective car and an accident cause by an intoxicated driver. Not a perfect/exact comparison, but the only similar issues was the accident.
Marvin_Zindler
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BrazosDog02 said:

For completeness:



CHARGE I.
Prior to July 4, 2025, while serving as a Registered Nurse, Supervising Nurse, Camp Nurse, Director, and Chief Health Officer with Camp Mystic, Hunt, Texas, Respondent failed to develop and maintain adequate emergency plans and emergency training protocols for campers, staff and camp nurses at Camp Mystic. Moreover, Respondent should have been aware of Camp Mystic's experiences during previous catastrophic flooding events but failed to develop and implement inadequate emergency shelter plan and/or evacuation plan. Respondent's lack of emergency preparedness for herself and her camp nurses was likely to injure campers and staff in that it created and/or maintained an unsafe environment and likely resulted in physical harm, emotional harm, psychological harm, and loss of life to campers and staff in an emergency or disaster at Camp Mystic.

CHARGE II.
During and after the catastrophic flooding event on or about July 4, 2025, while serving as a Registered Nurse, Supervising Nurse, Camp Nurse, Director, and Chief Health Officer with Camp Mystic, Hunt, Texas, Respondent failed to implement or maintain adequate shelter and evacuation protocols to protect campers and staff during and after an emergency or disaster at Camp Mystic. Respondent's conduct was likely to injure campers and staff in that it created an unsafe environment and may have unnecessarily exposed campers and staff to physical harm, emotional harm, psychological harm, and loss of life.

CHARGE III.
On or about July 4, 2025, while serving as a Registered Nurse, Supervising Nurse, Camp Nurse, Director, and Chief Health Officer with Camp Mystic, Hunt, Texas, Respondent abandoned the campers and staff when the camp site began to flood at approximately 0200 by evacuating herself and her children to higher ground without providing any assistance or direction to all of the other campers and staff. Further, Respondent failed to contact the nursing staff via phone to provide
direction and/or emergency instruction at any time. Finally, Respondent failed to contact emergency services at any time during the event or after she became aware campers and/or staff were missing and unaccounted for. Subsequently, no less than twenty-seven (27) campers and staff members passed away in the flood waters. Respondent's conduct exposed the campers and staff unnecessarily to risk of harm in that leaving the area without helping others during and after the catastrophic event likely resulted in the campers and staff not getting the health care, support, and
supervision they needed to manage physical harm, emotional harm, psychological harm, and loss of life.

CHARGE IV.
On or about July 4, 2025, through March 31, 2026, while serving as a Registered Nurse, Supervising Nurse, Camp Nurse, Director, and Chief Health Officer with Camp Mystic, Hunt, Texas, Respondent failed to report the deaths of no less than of twenty-five (25) campers and two (2) counselors within 24 hours per Texas Administrative Code 265.15. Respondent's conduct was deceptive and denied officials of the State of Texas information needed to regulate the camp site Respondent was administratively responsible for.

CHARGE V.
On or about March 1, 2025, through July 6, 2025, while serving as a Registered Nurse, Supervising Nurse, Camp Nurse, Director, and Chief Health Officer with Camp Mystic, Hunt, Texas,Respondent inappropriately delegated the authorization for staff nurses to assess, diagnose and administer Phenergan suppositories, Zofran, Zithromax, Amoxicillin, Prednisone, Albuterol, and Epinephrine to campers without prior physician assessment and recommendation. Instead, Respondent allowed staff to notify the camp doctor within twenty-four (24) hours of starting the medication for a follow-up appointment in office. Respondent's conduct exposed campers unnecessarily to a risk of harm from interventions provided without the benefit of a physician's expertise.

CHARGE VI.
On or about May 1, 2025, through July 6, 2025, while serving as a Registered Nurse, Supervising Nurse, Camp Nurse, Director, and Chief Health Officer with Camp Mystic, Hunt, Texas, Respondent failed to personally administer medication to campers per Texas Administrative Code 265.15(l) or document written authorization to allow others to administer the medications in her place. In addition, Respondent failed to ensure staff distributed medications in compliance with HIPAA requirements in that staff brought campers medications to the dining halls and other camp areas for distribution. Further, Respondent failed to ensure medications were safely stored in a lockable cabinet or other secure location that was not accessible to campers. Respondent's conduct was in violation of State laws including 25 TEX ADMIN CODE. 265.15 regarding Medical and Nursing Care. Respondent's conduct resulted in incomplete medical records and was likely to injure the campers in that subsequent care givers would rely on her documentation to further
medicate the campers.

The Texas Board of Nursing further finds that, given the nature of the charges, the continued practice of nursing by MARY ELIZABETH EASTLAND constitutes a continuing and imminent threat to public welfare and that the temporary suspension of Permanent Registered Nurse License Number 754060, is justified pursuant to Section 301.455, TEXAS OCCUPATIONS
CODE.

NOW, THEREFORE, IT IS ORDERED that Permanent Registered Nurse License Number 754060, issued to MARY ELIZABETH EASTLAND, to practice nursing in the State of Texas be, and the same is/are, hereby SUSPENDED IMMEDIATELY in accordance with Section 301.455, TEXAS OCCUPATIONS CODE.

I'm glad you will be hit with TLRD instead of me.

But important info nonetheless..
TFAAGG
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Sad. It sure sounds like negligence. My mom was the "camp nurse" for a large well know summer camp in Texas. It was basically a volunteer position for doctors over the summer, but she would have had all the titles listed above. In hindsight camps shouldn't be putting people in these positions. The reality is most do to reduce costs.
Ogre09
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Looks to me like only 5 and 6 should have been in her area of responsibility. The nurse is there to provide medical care, not be an emergency response coordinator or director. In the event of catastrophic flooding I wouldn't expect a nurse to direct the evacuation plans.
Windy City Ag
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Quote:

People need to stop comparing last summer to 1987. What happened in '87 was not so much a flood, but horrific timing by ONE group of people and it had nothing to do with camp/cabin locations as the camps themselves -- or at least, the cabins -- weren't flooded.




I get your point but still think it distracts from the larger discussion. The Guadalupe was called Flash Flood Alley for a reason. Hydrologists don't ignore the 1987 event in their calculations because it hit in Comfort and destroyed a bus rather than hit south of Hunt and destroyed cabins.

They ask if the entire stretch of river through all of Kerr County is prone to catastrophic flooding that can endanger lives, which is an obvious conclusion. Trying to invalidate that by saying a bus was swept away here versus a cabin swept away there is just a distraction.

I personally think that the real legacy of 1987 is that the initial response looked good with the UGRA adding in sensors and additional flood warning technology but then everyone forgot about it and there was actual opposition to additional safety measures that crept up over the years.

Now we have another terrible tragedy in which so many young lives were lost. Given their is no interest or intent of moving stuff away from the river, will the local folks maintain the necessary safeguards?
BrazosDog02
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All good. I donned my virus proof suit and waded into Reddit. No sense in good Ags needing to do that twice and if I'm curious, others may be as well!
John Cocktolstoy
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We all agree that this is a horrible event and everyone hurts. No one is trying to make any less of any of the events that cost lives. The event that happened last summer happened because a super cell storm sat over a area that converged with the Guadalupe. No one thought it was going to be so bad. Hopefully now there can be some talking heads of reason to get better laws in place, or better weather sirens or something, so that this cannot happen again. Placing blame has been going on too long. Lets just fix it.
Second Hardest Workin Man on Texags
BrazosDog02
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Yeah, and the city of Kerrville just installed a warning system.

https://www.kxan.com/news/texas/six-warning-sirens-installed-in-kerr-county/

They saved a few million back in 2017 or so by not installing these. Now the state is paying 50 Million for it.

So there you go, if you are ever curious about how much a human life is worth, it's roughly $360,000 each.
John Cocktolstoy
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So there you go, if you are ever curious about how much a life is worth, it's roughly $460,000 each.

Not going there, but I get your gist.
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Ragoo
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John Cocktolstoy said:

We all agree that this is a horrible event and everyone hurts. No one is trying to make any less of any of the events that cost lives. The event that happened last summer happened because a super cell storm sat over a area that converged with the Guadalupe. No one thought it was going to be so bad. Hopefully now there can be some talking heads of reason to get better laws in place, or better weather sirens or something, so that this cannot happen again. Placing blame has been going on too long. Lets just fix it.
as a kid growing up in New Braunfels in the late '80s and '90s we always heard about the wall of water in '72. Having lived there through the 1998 and 2002 floods it was reality. The rivers of the hill country - all of them - are highly highly prone to intense flash flooding. Last July wasnt the first, won't be the last. Humans are bad at recognizing risk. Maybe we will get better.
TexasRebel
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Every few years there's a new bird that builds a nest in the corner of the barn right on the door runner. After all, It's a nice protected spot, right? Elevated, hooded, out of the way, easy to see danger coming…

Just until someone happens to need the door open all the way. At that point the nest and all its contents get crushed. No new nests will appear in that spot for a few years. After a few generations of birds, the danger has been forgotten, another one will try…

To bring it to a human level, how many of our grandparents did not have a garden and livestock that would sustain the family for, at the very least, a few weeks? How many of our children have even seen a garden in a backyard?
John Cocktolstoy
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Ragoo said:

John Cocktolstoy said:

We all agree that this is a horrible event and everyone hurts. No one is trying to make any less of any of the events that cost lives. The event that happened last summer happened because a super cell storm sat over a area that converged with the Guadalupe. No one thought it was going to be so bad. Hopefully now there can be some talking heads of reason to get better laws in place, or better weather sirens or something, so that this cannot happen again. Placing blame has been going on too long. Lets just fix it.

as a kid growing up in New Braunfels in the late '80s and '90s we always heard about the wall of water in '72. Having lived there through the 1998 and 2002 floods it was reality. The rivers of the hill country - all of them - are highly highly prone to intense flash flooding. Last July wasnt the first, won't be the last. Humans are bad at recognizing risk. Maybe we will get better.

Yep, grew up in Seguin. Was all over the area on the Guadalupe. Great place when I was younger, but man NB has changed. So busy.
Second Hardest Workin Man on Texags
Gunny456
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AG
My family homesteaded a ranch on the Guadalupe in the mid 1800's. I grew up on our place. Lived there from 1950's -1980's…..when we moved into town. Kept the place till 1990's. The largest flood that was recorded at the Spring Branch gauge was in 1978. At Rebecca Creek it was measured at approximately 52 feet that night. We were at our house that night…..quite an ordeal.
I suspect, through its history, the river has been much higher way before records were kept. Evidenced by fields much higher in elevation than that 52 ft that have sandy loam soils deposited by the river thousands of years ago.
If I was a betting man I think it's pretty safe to say we haven't seen how high the river has been in its lifetime.
TAMU Wildlife and Fisheries Sciences

Boat racing is like a beautiful woman.......expensive, high maintenance, but well worth the fun!
FM 949
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AG
As an engineer, I tell people it's not if you will flood, it's when.
 
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