It's a long story - cliff notes I need to figure out where a sewage vent line is. It's the master bath toilet in a small enclosure and sewage vent could be in 3 different walls

Aside from cutting them open to look, what's the cheapest way to scan the walls and identify where it is? I found a scanner that says it can do it for about $150. Is that my best bet?

If you already know these, please excuse the "help"
TIPS:
Usually the vent requires a 2x6 wall cavity
Usually behind the toilet
Not always a straight line down from the roof exit but most commonly straight down
Adding fixtures to it calls for CODE/ordinance conformance which begs a licensed plumber involvement, whose house visit diagnosis might be $75

Will stay tuned to learn Why this Q ..... or what is planned.

Yall are making this too simple.

There is no roof exit.

We can't find the vent in any wall from the attic but it may make a 90 and connect to another vent in the wall

We think the toilet isn't vented at all. The toilet kind of gurgles when flushing. There is water staying in the line in the slab.

Before we go cutting Sheetrock to find a hopeful sewage vent pipe, I was trying to figure out how to scan walls and find one!

Sounds like I need a full story thread on this one…

There are 2 roof exit vents on that side of the house. One is directly above the master sinks and the other is above the shower, tub, and laundry connections. Nothing above the master toilet.

House built in 2021. City limits. City sewer.

How far away are the other fixtures? On the same general wall

It sounds like it's probably a wet vent and you won't find a vent pipe in the wall. 2021 seems pretty new to need to be jetted, you might have a problem with the height difference between the toilet and whatever fixture it's wet vented through.

Edit: If it's a wet vent, you'll almost certainly have to have a plumber come map the vent with a sonar/camera. It's not an expensive task, but you probably won't be able to find the shared pipe (unless it's going right to the side to a sink or shower).

4 different plumbers have been here.

First one said everything is perfect (seller of the house hired him, we were the buyers. Yes that was a mistake but we didn't know any trustworthy plumbers.)

Second said the vent makes a 90 and runs into another vent

Third never checked vents and said it's a belly in the line. Quoted $24,500

Fourth isn't sure there's a vent at all. He said he would come back after the first of the year so the house isn't tore up for the holidays.

GentrysMillTX10 said:

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There are 2 roof exit vents on that side of the house. One is directly above the master sinks and the other is above the shower, tub, and laundry connections. Nothing above the master toilet.

House built in 2021. City limits. City sewer.

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You might be able to go to the city and ask if they have the construction drawings on file from plan review. If so, there may be a plumbing plan you can look at.

GentrysMillTX10 said:

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4 different plumbers have been here.

First one said everything is perfect (seller of the house hired him, we were the buyers. Yes that was a mistake but we didn't know any trustworthy plumbers.)

Second said the vent makes a 90 and runs into another vent

Third never checked vents and said it's a belly in the line. Quoted $24,500

Fourth isn't sure there's a vent at all. He said he would come back after the first of the year so the house isn't tore up for the holidays.

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Did any of them sonar/camera map the pipes? A plumber coming out and staring at the wall then pronouncing a 90 belly in the lack of vent is useless. You'd know if they mapped it because they would give you a drawing of where the pipes are. Not where they think they are, where they really are because they've been pinged by sonar.

As for the plumber that diagnosed a belly, did he show you this on his camera? A reputable plumber would call you in to look at the camera with him, show you where the water is trapping, etc.

I've not heard of the vent map until you brought it up. This is a good idea. I'm in Early, TX. Not the most high tech area for plumbers with cool toys.

The plumber calling it a belly in the line did use a camera to show me the water in the sewage line. They went in through the roof vent above the shower/tub/washer connections. He also used a device to figure out where the "belly" stops in the slab. This kid was from Mr. Rooter Abilene and I was surprised he was out of high school. He never considered vent issues.

ETA: I tried to let the home warranty company deal with it. They called Mr. Rooter. Based on the diagnosis of a belly in the line, they promptly denied any coverage and are calling it a collapsed pipe.

Looks like OnPoint Plumbing in Zephyr and Black Plumbing in Brownwood have locators. Don't know of course if either is one of the plumbers who already came out

If it is a belly, there are cheaper and easier fixes than trenching the slab. Digging under the slab is the obvious if it's near the outside wall of the house, but pipe re-lining is the more modern and frankly safer option. Black Plumbing also says they do re-lining. It's basically sending a balloon down the pipe, expanding at the trouble area, then letting it cure.

Edit - Midway Plumbing in Brownwood also does trenchless repair

Thanks for the help! Black Plumbing has been here. He was here to install toilets. That's who said the vent makes a 90 and connects into a roof exit vent.

I am currently working with McMillian plumbing out of Brownwood. He was recommended by my home inspector.

SOP and so sorry you bought this "warranty"
A Merry Christmas at the expense of others should not be theirs in the future
so please warn as many as possible by posting a review
Here
Google
and certainly make a claim, at least at BBB

I didn't purchase the home warranty lol

My realtor negotiated it in the deal. Seller paid for it. I told my realtor I only want it if it's a reputable company that actually pays claims. Realtor said she had good luck with them.

Tango.Mike said:

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Looks like OnPoint Plumbing in Zephyr and Black Plumbing in Brownwood have locators. Don't know of course if either is one of the plumbers who already came out

If it is a belly, there are cheaper and easier fixes than trenching the slab. Digging under the slab is the obvious if it's near the outside wall of the house, but pipe re-lining is the more modern and frankly safer option. Black Plumbing also says they do re-lining. It's basically sending a balloon down the pipe, expanding at the trouble area, then letting it cure.

Edit - Midway Plumbing in Brownwood also does trenchless repair

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Pipe relining will do nothing to fix the belly. It is just line the pipe and there will still be a belly in it.

jt2hunt said:

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Tango.Mike said:

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Looks like OnPoint Plumbing in Zephyr and Black Plumbing in Brownwood have locators. Don't know of course if either is one of the plumbers who already came out

If it is a belly, there are cheaper and easier fixes than trenching the slab. Digging under the slab is the obvious if it's near the outside wall of the house, but pipe re-lining is the more modern and frankly safer option. Black Plumbing also says they do re-lining. It's basically sending a balloon down the pipe, expanding at the trouble area, then letting it cure.

Edit - Midway Plumbing in Brownwood also does trenchless repair

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Pipe relining will do nothing to fix the belly. It is just line the pipe and there will still be a belly in it.

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Yes, the relining process for a belly is not as simple as the crack version I explained. But there is indeed a relining process for them. And "most" bellies are usually mis-diagnosed channeling anyway. It's very rare for an actual belly to develop unless there is tons of soil movement or the entire slope was done incorrectly

There are bellies all the time due to degradation of pipe. In both cast-iron and PVC. Soil settling, etc. Bellies are one of the main causes of backups.

Pipe lining will not solve channeling issues either.

Not sure if you're still on your original question following the responses, but there are inspection cameras with locators. For your use, you would run the camera into the suspected roof exit and have to route it through the various wyes to try and get back to your toilet. If none of your local plumbers have one, you're going to spend several hundred to a grand to buy one and you'll need someone on the roof and someone inside with the locator.

You can buy a lot of paint and patching compound for a grand though.

Update: when the norther hit and the wind went crazy, the toilet water was moving with the wind. It IS vented, just where and how is the question.

I'll work on a diagram to see if yall can help me narrow down where to look.

The orange dots are where the roof vents exit the roof. The green dot is where the standing water in the sewer line stops.

Which vent is the toilet connected to? I'm thinking vanity, it's closer

Three houses in a row with the same floor plan but different roofs and front appearances. I'm the only one with 2 roof vents on that side of the house.

I'm in!

Hard to guess. Odd that the vent doesn't present itself in the attic (unless you have tall ceilings) as the toilet vent would have to cross over a door to meet either of the vent stacks. No way to know for sure without opening the wall or running a camera with a locator.

Ceilings aren't tall. I agree about crossing doorways.

I have read about "wet vents." Surely that's not the way it's vented to the vanity vent?

Which way to your rafters run in your attic? That would inform a plumber which direction its easier to run a connecting vent. My first guess is the vent goes straight up the wall behind the toilet and goes straight across the attic space towards your sink vent.

Whatever wall your water line for the toilet comes out of makes me think thats your best bet.

I don't know what codes your local inspectors follow; but for 3" drain lines, the UPC allows the vent elbow to be located up to 6 feet away from the toilet flange (as measured as if following the center line of the flange, elbow and pipe to the vent elbow). For 4" drain lines, it can be up to 10 feet... but local rules may trump this.

Update

Pulled the toilet and ran a camera. There's no vent!

The sewage line runs as shown below. Vanity is not believed to be vented either. The roof vent above the vanity is actually from the shower/washer.

So what's next? It's a 2021 model house. The neighbor admitted the previous owners had issues but it wasn't disclosed on the sellers disclosure.

Do I…

Lawyer up and get the sellers to pay damages/repair?

Contact the city inspector that approved of this and get their advice?

Is the builder liable?

Tuning in

Not sure you can win with the builder. They are used to fighting back and lawyering up, at least around DFW. Pretty tough to win a suit with them from what I hear.

City is unlikely to be any help. I find tons of stupid **** on new builds that most would assume the builder or city should have found and they didn't.

Might have a case with the seller not disclosing. Would think you need something more concrete and substantial than a neighbor saying "they had issues." That is not exactly foolproof evidence.

Sometimes you just have to suck it up and fix what is now YOUR house. There is not always someone to blame and hit up with the cost, unfortunately. Will be interested in hearing what you find out!

May I assume that someone on the roof cleared all invasions/obstructions to the roof vent opening? Top subs for plumbing, HVAC will push away surplus lead wrap to insure the biggest opening that pipe can offer.

Best to get face-face with the plumber
better if he remembers how he "vented" the whole bath group, probably Spec.house SOP convenient/profitable?

THEN some work-arounds or historic solutions are on the table for cheap and if not, Lawyer gets $$$$$ for himself & demo/fix root-canal painful to all FIX.

Caveat: potential foundation woes may come from too much foundation demo and even if they trench below it.

In the old days, vents were sometimes too far away from major uses of the sewer drain (e.g. toilet) and only then did a spec.house plumber change his ways to avoid more profit "drains" from "fixes" to this badly planned system.

Please everyone .... don't ever vote again for those that make/change laws = ANYONE may have
OR doesn't need a Texas Plumber License that is EARNED!

Without more details (such as your drain pipe diameters and distance between fixtures), it is hard to determine how your drain is designed to work, or if it does/doesn't meet any plumbing code.

That said, if we assume that your latest findings are correct, that vanity sinks really don't have their own vent, maybe adding a vent to their drain might be enough to fix the toilet problem (…that is, given the apparent close proximity of the vanity to the toilet (again we don't know the specifics of your pipe diameters and distances, so there's a chance it might not work too)). Nonetheless, I believe you could easily test such by removing one of the p-traps from one of the sinks so that the vanity drain could function as a 'temporary/test' vent. Once you have the p-trap out of the way, you see if your toilet flushes better. If it does, then I think you have the 'proof' you need to move forward.

If the above is unsuccessful, or if there is a flaw in the logic that I'm missing (which I'm sure someone will point out), I would get assistance from a seasoned Master Plumber you can trust. At this point in time, it appears that you gotten a lot of conflicting opinions and advice. Under such circumstances, any legal actions would probably not go in your favor until you can get incontrovertible proof of the actual problem(s) and its remedy. You can search for Master Plumbers on the TSBPE website.

Before firing off letters to everyone, get some quotes about what it would cost to remedy.

The builder might help because you have proof it was installed wrong, but they are going to be slow to deal with you here. And probably give you the run around. The plumber might help out of obligation, they're probably going to just duck your calls once they figure out why you're calling.

Putting a vent attached to the sink and hoping it'll fix everything is probably your cheapest and best fix. Good advice on this thread to try that out first.