Sorry Ags. I reached my limit for posting replys in the previous thread so I am trying to start a new one in hopes that I can get all your questions answered

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BCs vs. UP
BCs was initially a thorn in the side of UP. They would stand in the same area (Rudder Fountain), hand out information and wear pots just like UP, which only served to confuse the student body. UP asked BCs to stop, and they wouldn't. Sparks flew, tempers rose, but UP forged on and built Bonfire that year.

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I hate to be kinda rude about this but...BCS has a every right (maybe even more right) to be at Rudder...we are a student organization who fought VERY VERY hard to gain AND KEEP that privilage.. much like a when an upperclassman in the corps get ticked at fish for using non-fish privilages.. BCS was none too happy to see UP in that area to recruit...I can also at test to the fact that a "pissing contest" of sorts happened and that is unfortunate but as it stands.. we are trying to recruit from the same set of red-ass aggies...perhaps if more SB folks were involved in BCS we might not have to have a turf war every fall...

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Things flared up again between the groups when BCs attended the Magnolia fire and served as "security" for the event, connecting them with an off-campus Bonfire. The student body didn't know if BCs had merged with UP or if BCs had built Magnolia fire, or none of the above. BCs did nothing to quell the confusion and tempers flared up again. UP forged on and built a Bonfire again that year.

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I wasn't involved with that but I believe that BCS was informally asked if any members would be interested in helping to staff the event as a favor for old ags.. (who I presume would then be willing to lend more support to BCS..) we play a very politcal game and we do it will limited funds and support from Former students...(due to countless reasons of confusion or polarization on the on/off Bonfire issue,etc.) so I imagine part of the reason BCS helped was to gain some much needed allies...as well as to experience a version of the off-campus Bonfire...I cannot speak as to why they choose Magnolia over SB but I would speculate that is is primarily due to hositilies between th two groups leading to an owerwhelming feeling of un-welcome. I for one, chose to attend Magnolia once to see again why I fight so hard. It wasn't the Bonfire of old and so I have not attended since. For several years following 1999 I didn't want to attend any type of off-campus Bonfire because I hold so tightly to my memories of pre-99 Bonfires....I also chose not to go to SB because of the negative-feelings and harasment I knew I would incurre upon arriving in a BCS shirt....afterall most of my Bonfire shirts have a BCS logo on them.. and ALL MEMBERS of BCS go through a intiation process called "brass push" .. after earning our brass we are expected to wear it at all times....therfore I would have been easy to pick out as a BCS member..

Also, Magnolia has been around for a while..import is the fact that it was established PRIOR to the collapse in 1999 as a benefit event organized by former students...

More importantly....the fact that it is built by FORMER students is a large reason why BCS is more appt to go to Magnolia.. because there could be serious ramifications if BCS was to officially go to SB - as it is "shuned" by the University..and so on...

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Once again, things flared up a year later when BCs decided to name one of their leadership positions a "Grey pot", which was the same name as the UP (which changed to Student Bonfire that year) head leadership. When BCs was asked to change the name of thier pot, they wouldn't and therefore perpetuated the confusion.

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BCS and UP were formed around the same time in 2002, neither group coordnated with the other about what color's they'd use for leadership...to my understanding BCS and SB both chose colors that we NOT used in on campus Bonfires as to pay respect to former leaders and to avoid stating that we were a "red pot" or something that we NEVER EARNED...it is the hope of BCS that the traditions of passdown wil be allowed to return with Bonfire..so we avoided tradition colors used by the main leaders of Bonfire.

I know that there was such a thing as grey pot during on-campus Bonfires.. but it wasn't traditionally mentioned as a chief leader.. as were Reds, JRPS, Yellows, Pink, Browns, etc.

BCS didn't feel that we need to be the one to conceed the color grey just becuase SB also used it.. there are only so many colors in the rainbow that can be used for a pot... so we did the best we could.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think that SB recently changed to reds with permission of old reds. And just FYI...BCS has resrtuctured for the time being..and we only have two pot colors in use now.. green and blue. SO hopefully this will help to crrect this issue. We will still recognize past grey pots' service to BCS but if Grey is needed to be back in the future I would imagine BCS might consider alternatives then...I cant tell you that for sure thought because I don't have a crystal ball

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I know nothing of UP/SB vandalizing the BCs trailer. If it was indeed done, it was not in any official or condoned capacity.

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I am glad to hear that it isn't condoned,..but the fact remains it happened.. and who else would have even thought to do that? Only SB and BCS members are motivated to even contemplate such an act...other students couls give a rats a$# about our mini Bonfire. As a side note, if any members of SB hear of fellow members (especialy freshman from Moore..because thats what the trailer now says) if you could PLEASE let BCS know...Aggies don't lie, cheat or steal.. and painting Mini-B before so soon before open house has almost effectively stolen our recruiting ability for this fall....

I know that fun and games was (and is ) still common practice between dorms and groups involved with Bonfire....our trailer is our most visible symbol to most Aggies.. and so damaging it was more malicious than fun....

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Can't we all just get along
A resolution was reached on Texags a while back between the groups where both recognized each other's efforts to bring back Bonfire. (A)SB has perpetuated the activity and the education of "how" to build Bonfire. BCs perpetuates Bonfire awareness, is helping to pave the way for Bonfire's return to campus, and now does their best to remain neutral in any off-campus Bonfire issues.

What must be recognized is that one group could not succeed without the other. The only way to really learn/teach how to build Bonfire is to do it, and BCs can't do that.

In order for (A)SB to grow back to pre-99 attendance, they eventually need to build Bonfire close to or on campus. Only BCs can make that happen. When Bonfire returns to campus, the University will need people who know how to build Bonfire, and the only people around who know how to do that are (A)SB people. Both groups need to remember and recognize this, and do their best to avoid stepping on any toes in the future. It's in the best interest of Bonfire.

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I whole heartedly agree.. perhaps this dialouge will help with that...I want to thank you all for being so civil and understanding... a few years back BCS tried to start a forum via our website to discuss this and other related issues. It turned into a BCS "hate session" by members of SB and we had to take it down...

If you hti your limit again, send them to me in email and i will post them for you. I may not agree with you but you have a right to speak your mind. I assure you i will neither edit nor place them in a bad light. They will be put up as a quoted message, no other text.

send them to either adthrawn2@hotmail.com, or the same adress @neo.tamu.edu

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Correct me if I'm wrong but I think that SB recently changed to reds with permission of old reds

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Yes unless something has changed.
____________________________________________________________
Proudest member of the Fightin Texas Aggie class of 08 Beat the h*** outa tu A-A-A Whoop!!!. May bonfire forever burn in our hearts.....and may the Twelfth Man ever burn it in memory and in hope for the future.

Band.studentbonfire.com

[This message has been edited by Ag_of_08 (edited 8/31/2006 4:18p).]

[This message has been edited by Ag_of_08 (edited 8/31/2006 4:19p).]

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From AB2's post on another thread:

Why did BCS support the off-campus Bonfire, built by golf course workers, in Magnolia circa 2002?

The day that just one person involved with BCS gives any answer that makes sense, I'll back off of them.

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Maybe this will help. I'd really like to put this incident behind us.

I was part of the BC/BCS contingent that attended the Magnolia Bonfire several years ago. We thought going there would help us forge contacts with former students, and it would give some of our student members a chance to experience a variant of Bonfire.

[Edit: For historical perspective, Dr. Bowen was on his way out; Dr. Gates' attitude toward Bonfire had not been established. The state attorney general had not yet put the kabosh on consideration of Bonfire's future while the litigaton was in progress. We wanted to make friends among the former students in order to lobby the new president to bring Bonfire back to campus.]

Earlier we had made the decision not to attend the UP Bonfire as a group, although some of our members may have gone as individuals. At that time, the ink was hardly dry on the university's recognition of BCS, and we thought that any official presence on our part would sow seeds of mistrust in the administration and endanger the student group's right to operate on campus.

(One thing that held up the university's recognition was a suspicion among some administrators that BCS was really a front for the off-campus bonfire organization, to be used to gain access to campus facilities and privileges usually denied non-recognized groups. Even they did not understand the potential for bad blood between rival organizations. Neither did we, at first.)

Do try to understand, if you are willing to look at it from the viewpoint we had back then, that an officially sanctioned student organization retains its status only at the pleasure of the university.

We contacted David Goff, the developer at High Meadows and sponsor of the Magnolia Bonfire and associated golf tournament. Mr. Goff, incidentally, stared for Shelby Metcaff's basketball team during its heyday and is a dedicated Aggie who supports the Bonfire tradition. His decision to hold a "bonfire" built by the golf course's maintenance crew, the leader of which is also a former student, was in no way a slap at tradition. He saw it as a way to keep Bonfire alive in his own way. Mr. Goff was glad to have us.

We did not go with the idea of undercutting UP. Quite frankly, we were surprised to see the UP folks in attendance, and even more befuddled at the disapproval they expressed regarding our role. Words were exchanged, and both groups probably engaged in immoderate expression of opinion. Grudges have lasted to this day, an unfortunate circumstance that needs to be put behind us, in my opinion.

Earlier that year, the leadership of both organizations had met. BC took the position that it could not endorse any off-campus Bonfire built with student labor, as this was an anathema to the administration and would threaten recognition of the student group. However, we saw no such threat regarding attendance at a Bonfire constructed by an alumni group.

(At the time, several of the named defendants in Bonfire litigation, e.g., Sutherland, Kibbler, Thompson, were still employed at A&M. The university had a vested interest in discouraging student participation in off-campus bonfires. The last thing it wanted, when its officials were being accused of inadequate supervision, was continuation of the perceived "threat" to student Bonfire workers. The university didn't give a damn about professionals who build a fire; thus, we were not endangering BCS's status by attending the Magnolia event.

(Hopefully, as these men have moved on, the official position has become less strident. I recall reading about a friendly reply penned by Dr. Gates to a SB overture left on his doorstep before last year’s Bonfire. Perhaps the unofficial climate is gradually changing, although the lawyers still control the university’s official position.)

Understandably, UP may have looked upon a non-student Bonfire as an attempt to legitimize continuance of the tradition without student labor and leadership. Honestly, we didn't understand how much our attendance would upset the "rival" organization.

Since this incident four years ago, I have come to support SB. Last year I showed up in Commissioners Court to support the students in their fight against the last-minute injunction filed by the county, and subsequently made a donation to the legal fund to help defray the fines. I plan to donate this year.

As I posted on the original thread, friends of Bonfire need to stick together, even if they employ differing tactics in order to seek the same strategic goal.

[This message has been edited by DualAG (edited 9/2/2006 11:02a).]

Since when did we have greypots when Bonfire was on campus?

climber pots were grey...4 IIRC...things happened...lines got dropped and the remaining went red I think...

or something like that, it's early

I thought the climbers were silver.

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climber pots were grey...4 IIRC...things happened...lines got dropped and the remaining went red I think...

or something like that, it's early

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Ive heard this before. Something along the line s of:

There were four "grey" pots, eventualy two were dropped and two were made red lines. It was discussed early in the summer i think. That may not be right on the numbers though, and search wont work properly that far back.

If I remember correctly, there were three. In 1993 one of the Jr Climbers failed out and one was pretty worthless. The remaining JrC was made into a red his Sr. year. After that there was always a red with a grey line on his pot.

I was close at any rate



____________________________________________________________
Proudest member of the Fightin Texas Aggie class of 08 Beat the h*** outa tu A-A-A Whoop!!!. May bonfire forever burn in our hearts.....and may the Twelfth Man ever burn it in memory and in hope for the future.

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Correct me if I'm wrong but I think that SB recently changed to reds with permission of old reds

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which reds..?????? highly highly highly doubt that a majority of old red pots would do that

[This message has been edited by CavJock07 (edited 9/8/2006 10:02a).]

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which reds..?????? highly highly highly doubt that a majority of old red pots would do that

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You're wrong, Doubting Thomas.

All Bonfire lines from all active dorms, off-campus, the Browns, greens, and yes even the reds, have been passed down to Aggie Student Bonfire leadership.


Remember '99.
OC Hogs Build Bonfire!

You're wrong kid.

ummmm i dont think I'm wrong....are you talking about actually wearing reds out there?
because if you do , I talked to my buddy whos's dad was a red and he said that himself and others do not support this. I'm not trying to argue with you

Perhaps they are talking about the more recent reds (late '90s).

I assume that if your buddy is also class of '07 that his father must be consideraby older. As such, I would assume that he was not contacted/consulted when the decision was made.

'07, We'd also invite your friend's father to come out to Cut Site one weekend to see Aggie student Bonfire at work.

We'd really love it if you, your friend and his Dad came to Father-Son Cut on Oct. 15th!

I think he'd be very impressed that we're not a bunch of fool kids running around in the woods and doing things in any kind of unsafe manner.

In fact, if y'all want to come out to Burn on Nov. 21st, I'd be happy to pay your entry. I think he'll realize that the Reds from the mid-to-late 90s were all contacted and every last one of them has signed off on the lines being passed to ASB's student leadership.


Remember '99.
OC Hogs Build Bonfire!

Yeah mate, you were basicaly calling us liars. Contrary to the view that ive heard and found fish being taught all through the corps that SB is not aggie bonfire, that were doing somemthing wrong, ALOT of old ags dont feel that way. I find it very disturbing some of the things i hear fish repeating, very diturbing.....

____________________________________________________________
Proudest member of the Fightin Texas Aggie class of 08 Beat the h*** outa tu A-A-A Whoop!!!. May bonfire forever burn in our hearts.....and may the Twelfth Man ever burn it in memory and in hope for the future.

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...the Browns, greens, and yes even the reds, have been passed down to Aggie Student Bonfire leadership.

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...the Reds from the mid-to-late 90s were all contacted and every last one of them has signed off on the lines being passed to ASB's student leadership.

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Please do not confuse the use of a colored pot or the blessing of some random dead pot as an official pass down.

How many of the '01 & '00 "signed off" on lines being passed? Do any of the new lines actually have the real pots? This would be an indication of a pass down. I would bet that alomost all of the pots you claim that have been passed down are proudly on display in the homes/offices of the last group that built a fire on campus.

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Do any of the new lines actually have the real pots?

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Haha, ignorance is so funny. Tell me, how do the Reds pass? When you answer that, you'll answer your question.

As far as Browns, they were not passed to. Greens are a product of Student Bonfire. Most of the current Yellow's have been passed from Ol'Army. I know of one dorm that is the same pot from the mid-70's and the OC pot is from the early 80's.

[This message has been edited by Armadillo Jackal (edited 9/12/2006 12:10p).]

I was not a redpot. Somehow, during your deep thought process of trying to say something intelligent, you missed the point.

All lines have not been passed. Most have been reborn, but not passed.

[This message has been edited by Armadillo Jackal (edited 9/12/2006 12:48p).]

Most?

List the reborn ones. And list the ones passed down.
Show your deep knowledge of Bonfire. Explain your point.

[This message has been edited by Armadillo Jackal (edited 9/12/2006 12:51p).]

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Most of the current Yellow's have been passed from Ol'Army.

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Most? Are you saying that

(A) There are dorms that had Yellowpots in 1999 that have not passed them down, in which case you are correct, or that

(B) There are current Yellows that are not passdowns from the 1999 Yellows, in which case I ask: Which ones?

Of the current Yellowpots, most are passed down lines. One I know is held up because one of the '99 guys has fallen off the face of the earth and they're still trying to contact him. I don't know the story on the others that haven't been passed down.

I don't believe any of the Buttpots have been passed down.

As you should know, it's a little different for every dorm / outfit. For example, FHK burned all Bonfire passdowns including pots, grodes, axes, etc. because they knew Bonfire would never be the same. Actual "lines" were stopped, although each year new boys (and girls) have been picked by their parents. New lines were established the last couple of years. Moses has kept their same lines, grodes, and pots every year since '99. And so on. I don't think their is any dorm that hasn't at least consulted crew chiefs / co-chairs from '99 and/or before.

OC
http://studentbonfire.com/subsite/oc/leadership.htm

[This message has been edited by Armadillo Jackal (edited 9/12/2006 2:14p).]

AJ, my knowledge of today's fire is limited, at best. I hear things from folks involved, but I have zero firsthand experience.

What I do know is that my pot sits on a shelf in my house. Everyday I walk by it, and everytime I think of the 3 friends who died on 11-18-99 that either previously claimed it as their own or was in position to use it in 2000.

I also know that some new fire Brownpot decided to resurrect my line. I also know that whoever decided to resurrect my line did not get the idea from any of the living Air Kraps. Point being, not all lines have been passed as someone stated earlier.

I was told this brown cruised into the Chicken Friday night to the amazement of some people I know and he made an a$$ of himself when asked about his line. I did not make this conclusion, but it was the general consensus of my friends attending that evening.

I am not sure what "deep knowledge" you seek from me, but I have forgot more about Bonfire than you could ever comprehend.

In your own words, "...ignorance is so funny."

NOT cool. If any of the lines were not ok with starting the lines up again, they shouldn't be in use today.

and then according to the bartenders working that night...

ya'll held him down and beat him...3 on 1?

Crafty.... Wanna drop me an email about that? I was a brown for the 04 fire, and probably can shed some light on that issue... [edited... thanks]

[This message has been edited by djx02 (edited 9/12/2006 3:45p).]

Shed it here, there are a lot of people curious about this.

Of all the lines to bring back, THAT one should have had the blessing of all living members.

The ignorance remark was directed the Reds passing procedure. If that was understood, it would not be confusing why their pots are not around. Will not go into details.


I agree that lineages shouldn't be used if they weren't passed. I don't think any crews do that (could be wrong). As far as Line names, I'm divided, because I'm not in that position. Meaning, I'm not an old guy, with newboys under me wanted me to pass to them.

I do think they should be able to use the same paint scheme. If a crew trys contacting their old guys, and most of the old guys want to pass but can't because a couple don't, the crew shouldn't die.



[This message has been edited by Armadillo Jackal (edited 9/12/2006 2:42p).]

There were eight of us browns for the 04 fire. When passdown time came, we were told by an old brown that we could pass as browns. We did that part, but the lines names are new. Nobody told us we could use the original names, so we did NOT. There were eight new lines begun in 04. I was at passdown this past year and nothing was mentioned about the old line names, so I can only assume that they are continuing with the new ones. I am old enough that I spent time in 97 building with Sq5, I know people that were hurt in 99, was aquainted with a few of the fallen. I would NEVER take part in bringing back an old army brown line (or lines) without express consent of the line in question.

I can not take responsibility for any of the 05 and newer browns actions, but I can assure you that we did not bring back the old lines.

Edit- I was also at the Chicken on Friday night, but was not around for that particular incident. If anyone wants to clue me, feel free.

[This message has been edited by djx02 (edited 9/12/2006 2:46p).]

That makes sense, dx. If someone is now claiming they're part of a line they aren't they need to be set straight.

Easy on the "ya'll" TX Reb, I was not in the Brazos Valley this past weekend.

Thanks for the info djx.

I trust my source(s) of the Chicken story. If the said brown (or any brown for that matter) did not claim my line, I apologize for stirring it up.

Just a general FYI, be careful on here when you tell an anonymous poster that they have no clue how things worked back then. A good number of the old leadership is around as evidenced by this thread. Its just nuts to tell Crafty he didn't know how things worked.