*T= thanksgiving day


bgrimm, how was cut sunday? do you have thursday and friday off(T, T+1)? it sounds like you'll still have to work on wed.

I completely agree that some former students will find it difficult to attend, I am going to go out on a limb and assume that many in the real world (like me) have T, and T+1 off but I have to work on T-1 so taking a half day on T-2 might be a bit muc to ask from a boss. (alot of avid supports have bosses, some don't understand as much).

I am completely excited about the fact that we are going back to the traditional day.

To the young man that is now upset about missing burn because it is Tuesday night and you wanted to go home, How much time and effort have you/will you put into this years bonfire? How many of your friends would you drag out on a saturday vs tuesday? How many people would you think would be more inclined to go if the person inviting them was EXCITED about burn rather than disappointed with the day?


One other note: Leadership does read texags, they usually post a LOT less durig bonfire season. But I assure you one red, green, brown, AND BOD member reads this forum everyday. (Just in case something important is said)

I’ve been away for the past few hours…so I’ll reply to the 3 posts.

Keegan, if you’re going to respond, why not respond to the entire message?
Just like it’s not my responsibility to support McDonalds by buying Big Macs or it’s not my responsibility to support A&M by attending, it is not my responsibility to support ASB. These organizations put forth a product the people want, and that is now the other end of ASB’s task aside from building Bonfire and attempting to further the tradition. It is ASB’s responsibility to support ASB, that is a slice of positive corporate culture, and I sincerely hope the leadership agrees with that. You can’t expect me or anybody else to come out and support the half-witted decision of choosing to have Bonfire on an inconvenient night. It’s not the “I told you so” I’m pulling for here, it’s simple truth, but that seems to be difficult to wrap some minds around.
Why would Tuesday be more popular for Bonfire than Sunday? How could Tuesday possibly be a better night than Saturday?

I guess the “you” I’m referring to is the collective “you”. As in…if you’re concerned and care about the organization you belong to, you can have a voice and change things for the better. I built it for two years, and then just kind of got pi**ed at/about it for a few reasons I would say are pretty important to me, so I no longer go out and participate, and neither do a few of my friends. However, I still hope the objective as a whole is accomplished. I have strong ties within the organization, so just because I don’t participate doesn’t mean I don’t support it. Also, just because you support an organization doesn’t mean you can’t be critical of it. And I certainly don’t have to participate and pay my 5 dollars in order to be critical.

Lastly, it’s a shame the organization is alienating former students like grimm who have to balance their real lives, and their real jobs, and their real responsibilities. He’s doing what he can in his personal life to make sure he can do what he can for ASB and still is being removed from the decision making process and is even denied consideration, and all ASB supporters have to say to him and those in his situation (nearly ALL formers students) is that if he only tried harder and made just one more sacrifice, he could see the fruits of his labor. This is another reason why ASB is languishing. I personally believe it has lost touch with what once was. Once it was about Aggies, now it seems as if it about only those who take part in the process. This statement was made loud and clear when the decision was made to have it on Tuesday.

Again, criticize me and tow the line from the leadership, but I assure you, for an organization at a very critical time in it’s development, making decisions like this, a year following what happened last year mind you, is sure to alienate a lot of people and there’s a very real possibility that the turnout will be severely lacking, and depending on how secure ASB’s financial situation, old Ags could once again be ponying up money to cover the costs.

And Armadillo, maybe leadership should read these posts. This seems to me to be the closest thing to an open symposium of good suggestions that will happen. Like I’ve said, my concerns have been passed on, now I’m just passing them on in another way.

Also, 10 years ago, Bonfire and the state of the University was drastically different, and you have to take that into account when you make statements like that Rebel.

Lasty, to preshy who insists on having a condescending demeanor towards those who disagree with him, this young man won’t spend any time out there this year because of irresponsible decisions in the past and unfortunate consequences bonfire has directly had on me and those around me. You’re entirely wrong if you think I have a problem with the day it is, if that’s the case then you’re missing mine entirely. Have it whatever day you like, just know that some days would generate a greater turnout.

Sincerely,
Young Man

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You can’t expect me or anybody else to come out and support the half-witted decision of choosing to have Bonfire on an inconvenient night.

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It's only inconvenient from your perspective because you've elected to go home 16 hours earlier than you would if you chose to attend.


Personally, I've never met a college student with a severed umbelical cord that wouldn't want to spend another night having a good time with their buddies when four plus days of family lie ahead regardless.

didn't the last two old ags just say that the burn night was inconvenient for them, or did you not catch that?

Having bonfire on Tuesday night will unfortunately not give you the opportunity to meet all those college students with severed umbelical cords who chose to spend the break with their families instead of another with their buddies.

Let the attemdence show you.

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didn't the last two old ags just say that the burn night was inconvenient for them, or did you not catch that?

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I caught it, but old Ags from out of town have never been a sizeable component of the ASB audience. They key has always been student attendance.

As I said, the two most important things ASB needs are:

1) An effective, well-designed plan for getting people to and from the burn event (this has NEVER happened in previous years)

2) A football team that keeps winning. If we're 9-2 or 10-1 heading into Austin, ASB will have all the people they can handle.

I appoligize for sounding condecending, that was not intended, I addressed you as young man because I was not sure what your SN was.

I am curious as to what has severed your ties to bonfire. I hope it is not the $5. I to as a former person of upper leadership have had to pay this now 2 years in a row. After talking to the reds and greens this year, and several members of the BOD they too had to pay the dues. Just a simple part of the non-profit organization asspect.

And I also would like to assure anyone that might think this decision(burn night) was not made without great consideration. Alienating attendees I am pretty sure was discussed, I am sure that many hours and days even went into this debate, the last two years the decision was tough but we decided not to go to the traditional burn night. There might have been a factor none of us are aware of that lead to this decision, I am Excited to see ASB go to the traditional burn night, I hope it does not turn out as awfully as you seem to think it may, but like you said, only time will tell.


(again no sarcasim or demeaning tone is meant by any of the messages I have posted today)

So just because they aren’t or haven’t been a sizeable portion of the audience means it’s ok to push them further away? I also seriously doubt us having a good football season has a very strong correlation to ASB turnout, again, just another prediction.
The 5 dollars didn’t sever my ties with bonfire I assure you. I had somebody in your leadership come over to my house and threaten a girl and then punch my best friend in the face for trying to defend the girl, I didn’t care much for that. Also, I’ve seen the toll it takes on people’s personal lives and how it interferes with what people are really here to do. To the degree where they fail out of school actually, and while I realize that one’s involvement with Bonfire is entirely a personal decision, it’s not always easy to turn down responsibility when a bunch of your buddies and close friends are relying on you. I admire those who are in it and would do anything to build it and burn it, I just wish the organization put more emphasis on seeing to it that it’s members got their degrees first. Lastly, I just really didn’t see in ASB what I construed Bonfire to be when it was on campus, like I mentioned earlier, I don’t really think it’s about Aggies anymore, I think it’s more about those who build it.
I’m glad a great deal of consideration went into the date, and I too hope I’m wrong about “how awful it’s going to be.” But I think it’s also time we ask how long is 11/18 going to be so sacred so that we can’t do anything on that day? I’m glad it’s on the traditional day in the sense that it’s tradition, old tradition however. This is a new Bonfire, and should begin a new tradition.

Looking at the football schedule, burn was either Tuesday night or Wed night nearly every other year except for 1994 (I cant remember what night this burned) for decades. People made time then, you can make time now.

Is my point lost on everybody? It's not me! I don't care! To those who say I need to shutup and quit whining and come out, you are missing the point. I'm saying, many people will be UNABLE to come out. On Saturday you have a choice, on Tuesday, many people don't.
Also, if school is suddenly as important on Wednesday as some of you are making it out to be, then is it really that wise to have bonfire on a school night? Especially, like somebody said before, if you have "quizzes and there will be important information"

[This message has been edited by SquareOne07 (edited 10/17/2006 7:06p).]

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I'm saying, many people will be UNABLE to come out. On Saturday you have a choice, on Tuesday, many people don't.

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Which is the same situation as all the previous years when we had tens of thousands of people there on a weeknight.

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I also seriously doubt us having a good football season has a very strong correlation to ASB turnout, again, just another prediction.

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As someone that's been doing programming for current Aggies and former students for more than a decade, I feel comfortable in stating that you'd be surprised how greatly the overall enthusiasm for all things Aggie is influenced by the success of the football team.

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But I think it’s also time we ask how long is 11/18 going to be so sacred so that we can’t do anything on that day?

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It's about PR. All it takes is one family member of the twelve to talk to the media about how they feel offended by ASB burning on 11/18.

Using Bonfire as an excuse for bad grades or failing is ridiculous. That’s immaturity on their part. I'm not saying that my grades haven't suffered, but if they every got to a point that worried me, I would have rebalanced my priorities. If those people fail out, fine. Bonfire didn't cause it, they did.

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Also, 10 years ago, Bonfire and the state of the University was drastically different,

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But the real world wansn't very different...which, I do believe, is part of your point.

The quizes and info given out on Wednesday before Thanksgiving are usually to account for people being there. Attendance quizes such as "write your name on a piece of paper, fold it twice, and turn it in"...and information along the lines of, "the final project is now due on the day of the final, you have an extra two weeks to work on it...for those that aren't here today, too bad."

There is no day in the entire year that will be convienient for every different group of people.

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I had somebody in your leadership come over to my house and threaten a girl and then punch my best friend in the face for trying to defend the girl, I didn’t care much for that.

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Blaming Student Bonfire for this is as ignorant as blaming the entire system of democracy for what Foley did.

[This message has been edited by TexasRebel (edited 10/17/2006 7:56p).]

Rebel, you're right, no day would be good for everybody, but I assure you, Saturday would be much better for many more people than Tuesday would, therefore that logic is useless.

You're right, blaming the behavior of that one incident on all of bonfire isn't totally fair. But if that is the character of your leaders than I personally don't want to be a part of that organization, and I challenge you to fault me for that. This guy was willing to FIGHT a girl over her beliefs on bonfrie and then was actually willing to take a swing at a good friend of mine for merely intervening in what happened when he tried to defend the girl. Class act.

Would somebody PLEASE start to tell me why Tuesday is better than Saturday and why if school is so important like you all are making it out to be, then why is bonfire being held on a school night? Please?

If it was someone in upper leadership(greys/reds) I do appoligize and without knowing the full details I will not say anything further. If it was brown/yellow or chief, while they are important to the organization, they are not the end all and be all and are more a representative of the dorm than the organization as a whole. I never like it when one person spoils a reputation or persons feelings, but on another note, I do still have several friends in the corps, even thought a few of them flung horse manure at some civilians(sips or otherwise it wasn't right).

In the three years I worked on the offcampus fire as a student I had better grades in the fall then the spring, I even managed to graduate the busiest of all those semesters. I also watched several fish and even a sophmore or two fail out, I've seen some now working on an 8th year, I would tend to agree with the post saying that the student was more at fault than the organization. As a chief I usally gave fish a harder time about missing class than missing stack. I wanted them to be back another year and be able to show there Aggie ring with pride. There are more evils in life than just bonfire.

My brother lost several friends in 99, my feeling on your arguement, "Burn it on the 18th in honor of the 12" that brings an issue of if we did it this year we have to do it next year. I don't think it is as much of the sacred reasoning as you are infering. Yes the 18th is and from this day on will always be a very important day to aggies everywhere, but I am not of the opinion that is why we aren't burning it saturday.


If the aggies are in the mix for the big 12 south or a GOOD bowl game, Advertising of "BURNING DESIRE" becomes a lot easier to push on current students.


Edit: (just saw your post)
I was not at the meeting at which the exact date was set. I do know we had considered returning to the traditional day 2 years prior now. It was decided, plans have been made, permits filed.
Leadership felt it was best to do it on Tuesday rather than Saturday, that is All the insight I have to offer.

[This message has been edited by preshy boy (edited 10/17/2006 9:27p).]

[This message has been edited by preshy boy (edited 10/17/2006 9:28p).]

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I feel comfortable in stating that you'd be surprised how greatly the overall enthusiasm for all things Aggie is influenced by the success of the football team.

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I hadn't thought about this before, but it would explain a lot about the classes of '06-'09.

preshy, cut was good on sunday. They seem to have pretty good turnout this year, and there's some nice oak out there from what I saw. And yes, I have T & T+1 off, but do have to work on T-1, so unless burn isn't until 9:30 or so, I probably won't make it (I know it's been late in the past because of logistic problems). Of course, if I stayed till midnight like you're supposed to, I wouldn't get home till 3 am and would have to get up at 5 am. That's never fun when you have to try and think somewhat clearly the next day.

BTW, forgive me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure it's not on the traditional day. Did it not follow the lead of regular yell practice, i.e. 1 day before the home game or 2 days before the away game?? If so, Wednesday would be the traditional day, and it might not be as much to ask to get off a little early the day before Thanksgiving. I could spend the night in CS and still come back home in time for Thanksgiving dinner. A little advice for the current leaders, (which I have conveyed to them, not just on a message board) there are MANY more former students than current students, and as long as you depend on donations, etc., it is not wise to alienate the majority of them just because some students have to go home extra early to suck on their momma's tit.

Of course, I think there is something that many people have been overlooking. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I have heard many times that Bonfire only drew 30-40K on away game years, as opposed to 70-80K when the game was at home. The obvious reason being that many former students wouldn't drive into town if there was not actually a game there. It stands to reason that there would be less people this year, but it's unfortunate that I am one of the unlucky ones that willl probably be affected by this as well.

It actually was a red come to think of it, and relating it to the horse manure incident doesn't exactly add up, don't you think? The manure thing some 50 years ago, or even 10 maybe, would have been written off as just asshattery, but now everybody's got their panties in a wad. As best I know, threatening a girl over something trivial was never in style or very chic...

I agree there are more evils in life than bonfire, and I also agree that one's shortcomings in any aspect are only the fault of that one person. All I'm saying is that I wish ASB put more emphasis on people making good grades, or at least decent ones, like student organizations do. Preshy, I think it's great that you put more emphasis on grades than on bonfire to your fish, I just wish that was more common and was institutionalized.

I disagree with you though when you say the reason why we aren't burning it on the 18th is not because of 1999. That seems to me to be the only reason, what else could it be? **Hint...it's not the traditional day bonfire burned, we should all know that.**

I think we might need more than to go into the game with a 8-3, 9-2, or even 10-1 (2 inches and even 11-0) record to advertise a "burning desire". I think we need to beat them in this millenium before we can start advertising on those grounds...

Come to think of it...yeah Tuesday isn't following tradition. If the game was in Austin, Bonfire would be Wednesday, when school was out (and there were no classes the following day). When the game was in CS, Bonfire was on Thursday, again, when school was out (and there were no classes the following day).

I also think that people should consider other's situations and motives for going home before saying things like they need to go home to suck on their momma's tit...some people have sick family members, some people have family they don't get to see but once or twice a year. Just be more aware of that I guess...sorry to sound like a vagy vag.

Look...all I'm saying, and I think anybody that's read everything I've posted is that in my opinion, this is just a really unfortunate decision made by leadership, but in new organizations, decisions have to be made and so do mistakes in order that the organization may continue to grow and be better. ASB faces a tough task if it's goal is to return Bonfire to what it once was, but I would love nothing more than to see it come true, and I would be extremely proud to say that I knew people responsible for that.

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I wish ASB put more emphasis on people making good grades, or at least decent ones

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You can't do this for every single student, but its true now for leadership.

Sick family members should come before Bonfire no matter what day its on.

The fact of the matter is, you don't think it should be on Tuesday. Leadership does. Nothing will change this year since this decision was made 3-4 months ago.

[This message has been edited by Armadillo Jackal (edited 10/18/2006 10:53a).]

yes square, of course there's other reasons to go home early that take precendence. I just think that the majority of the people that wouldn't attend on Wednesday because they are going home early probably won't attend Bonfire on Tuesday either.

I'm also wondering why people keep talking about conflicting with parties, northgate, etc. As many people know, I'm all for cracking open a beer first thing in the morning on the weekends. But the majority of people don't hit the party/bar scene until fairly late at night. In the past, most people leave after burn to party, and I don't see why this year would be any different. Going to Bonfire doesn't neccessarily hurt your partying for the night, it may just delay it a little. And if you want people to stay late at Bonfire like you're supposed to (at least after midnight), having it on a school/work night won't help any more than having it on the weekend.

If this continues, it hopefully shouldn't be as big of deal in the future for me personally. I will have to take a day of vacation, but no big deal. I just don't have any vacation days until I've worked with my company for a full year (January). But how many other people will sacrifice a vacation day to drive up to CS for one night in the middle of the week?

I agree entirely with grimm and I think if the goal is to build Aggie bonfire than the considerations of all Aggies should be accounted for.

Bonfire consumes almost an entire night, which isn't a problem, but that it consumes an entire Tuesday night is different. This is especially true for people who have long drives home the next day, those from Houston or so that drove up and will drive back afterwards so they can go to work, those with children...I just wish I understood the positive that people believe will come from a Tuesday night. It seems I've asked it so many times and all I get are defenses for Tuesday, not and real reason for Tuesday.

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The fact of the matter is, you don't think it should be on Tuesday. Leadership does. Nothing will change this year since this decision was made 3-4 months ago.

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Maybe this is too much of a monarchy and not enough of a democracy. Yeah, we can give our opinions via student bonfire email, but we have no idea when decisions are being made. Something to think about in the future...

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If it were held on Wednesday, a lot of students would have already gone home, especially being an away game.
Friday and Saturday are out because it would be the 18th.
Sunday is out because of finals on Monday.
Remember, SB is a business that has to make back money on burn night, so it has to scheduled well.

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Have you been reading any of this? Why would you post that again? We’ve already established that there are no finals on Monday, people will be going home on Tuesday as well as Wednesday, former students have a very difficult time making it in on Tuesday night, somebody said that the 18th had nothing to do with the decision, and if the 18th does affect the decision, that absolutely makes no sense. Having Bonfire on the 7 year anniversary of the collapse where 12 kids died building that very same bonfire does not desecrate their memories. Bad PR is a moot point for that reason; bonfire already does this for themselves.

The only part of that statement is that “SB is a business and has to make back money on burn night.” However, like we’ve already discussed, money won’t be made back on this particular burn night, for the simple reason that people will be out of town, won’t be able to come in town, and have school the next day. Were any of these problems with a Saturday burn? Nope.

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It seems I've asked it so many times and all I get are defenses for Tuesday, not and real reason for Tuesday.

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you wanted the reasons...sorry you don't like them.

No, reasons have to have some truth and some validity. Saying the reason we're not having it on Sunday because of finals on Monday is not true. Saying we're having it on Tuesday because that was the traditional day is not true.

Again, is there anybody out there with a real reason or two as to why we're alienating potentially thousands of Aggies and having Bonfire on Tuesday?

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Again, is there anybody out there with a real reason or two as to why we're alienating potentially thousands of Aggies and having Bonfire on Tuesday?

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again, don't count on leadership (the people that would know) to post on Texags.

By "finals" AJ already corrected himself and said exams. Yes, there will be exams on Monday, probably some on Tuesday, and even Wednesday.

Tuesday also allows for a few more days of Push & allows things to get set up before the crowd starts to arrive...things like parking, and fences, and topping logs, and placing the frat house on centerpole, removing perimeter poles, and last minute things that will help the fire burn.

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Again, is there anybody out there with a real reason or two as to why we're alienating potentially thousands of Aggies and having Bonfire on Tuesday?

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And again I would ask why the situation is different than any of the numerous times it burned on Tuesdays in the past.

Yawn....round and round we go...

I am no longer in the "know" but a good point stated a few post earlier was scheduling "time frame" tuesday does offer the most possible stack shifts, it also allows two extra weekend days that can be used as triple shift days (if neccisary)

Due to the very nature of the Thanksgiving timeperiod, there will always be time conflicts or other issues that pose difficulties for a possible burn night. Blindly claiming we're alienating 'thousands of aggies' as you put it doesn't change the fact that it is still the best day to burn in the eyes of upper leadership (and I agree with them). The previous Friday is too early, Saturday is 11/18 and there's a whole host of reasons why it won't be that day, Sunday & Monday just aren't good nights to burn. Wednesday is way too late. That leaves Tuesday. And If you wanted to come to burn, then leaving a day later would NOT pose any sort of inconvience whatsoever.

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Having Bonfire on the 7 year anniversary of the collapse...

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Only by the "days begin at midnight" technicality. The 2:42 rememberance ceremony is on Friday night. I don't see why a Saturday night Burn would be a problem.

I'm curious...

What are these Bonfires on Tuesday you're referring to? And how can Wednesday be "way too late" when for decades Bonfire burned on Wednesday and even as late as Thursday? How come academics are all of the sudden so critical those three days right before the break when they never were in the past few years of SB, as witnessed by Saturday burn? How can you say Tuesday will be the best day for burn? It's already been said that this day is not conveniant for some former students. If Tuesday was always the best day, how come it never burned on Tuesday in the past...ever? You wouldn't pose any inconveniance whatsoever if Bonfire was on Saturday, however with a Tuesday Bonfire, you're asking people to stay for your event. It may be worth it, it may not, the attendance will show.

Talk about a runaround...I dare somebody to answer all those questions, with something original, and by this I mean don't tow the line and repeat something upper leadership has told you.

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What are these Bonfires on Tuesday you're referring to?

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Bonfire '98 burned on Tuesday. And presumably, so did half of the Bonfires that burned back when the t.u. game was on Thursday.