That since the majority of students have no idea what bonfire WAS, they will eventually drop it and let it go. As a former student, class of 97, I applaud their effort to continue the tradition, however I feel that students are taking away the true meaning and disgracing all that it was

[This message has been edited by gabe_bock (edited 10/18/2006 11:37p).]

What, in your opinion, was it? What is the meaning that they have taken away from it? How are they disgracing anything?

The current builders of Bonfire know very well what it IS and what it MEANS.

Do you?

I'm gonna guess you don't.

*edit - darned commas*

[This message has been edited by Kip95 (edited 10/18/2006 11:42p).]

No doubt it's difficult to restore a culture. It takes Aggies to get together and even undertake a project like Bonfire, but to take on the project of restoring the culture of Bonfire, which extends to the ENTIRE population of the University and not just those who participate in Bonfire...that will be a real task.

I hope this isn't like a prize fighter who instead of riding out into the sun chooses to kick and punch until he disgraces his once great legacy...

This is a classic"you werent on campus for a burn, your less of an aggie" bs statement. I HATE this attitude....






____________________________________________________________
Proudest member of the Fightin Texas Aggie class of 08 Beat the h*** outa tu A-A-A Whoop!!!. May bonfire forever burn in our hearts.....and may the Twelfth Man ever burn it in memory and in hope for the future.

Anybody that was here pre-99 will tell you that the entire culture on campus was different. I don't think it's a knock on Aggies who came after, I think it's merely a statement of fact. We're all Aggies, but we're a different sort. The Aggies of 1969 and the Aggies of 1985 are different because of differences in the University. The Aggies of 1997 are different from the Aggies of 2008 because of differences in the University. Is there any denying this?

No doubt in that, but the general attitude of "current students are defaning the traditions MY class kept" is wrong.


Were not all idiots, were not all hippies. Ive seen two on campus fires in my time, and two off. To insinuate that im some "lower" form of aggie because bonfire has been pushed of campus is an insult i dont take lightly......

It wouldnt put my neck hair up, i wouldnt get SO testy about it, if i hadnt heard it time and again. Thigs change, but NONE of you are "superior" or on some kind of morale high ground were you can dictate your opinions on our "aggieness". You call SBA new army....guess what '97, mother('79) and cousin(94, and who worked at cut every year) dont.

____________________________________________________________
Proudest member of the Fightin Texas Aggie class of 08 Beat the h*** outa tu A-A-A Whoop!!!. May bonfire forever burn in our hearts.....and may the Twelfth Man ever burn it in memory and in hope for the future.

quote:

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Anybody that was here pre-99 will tell you that the entire culture on campus was different. I don't think it's a knock on Aggies who came after, I think it's merely a statement of fact. We're all Aggies, but we're a different sort. The Aggies of 1969 and the Aggies of 1985 are different because of differences in the University. The Aggies of 1997 are different from the Aggies of 2008 because of differences in the University. Is there any denying this?

---

So these guys should stop building Bonfire?

I'm not so sure what difference the absence of Bonfire has made on the University. Yes, it is much different now than it was in 1995, but did Bonfire’s absence cause that? I don’t know. Bonfire participation was small. Even in the most red-ass dorm on campus, Fightin’ Texas Aggie T.O. Walton Hall, participation was 15% at best. Did our small group of people really influence campus that much? I’d like to think so, but I’m not sure we did.

I think the culture changed because the students changed, society changed, and the University changed. Bonfire is part of it, but not all of it. Even if (A)SB can’t change the culture of A&M back to the way it was it is still worth the effort to be a part of something bigger than yourself, to build something to be proud of and then to burn it to the ground.

The friends I made, skills I learned and experiences I had are what made it worthwhile. These current Bonfire builders are getting the same thing out of Bonfire that I did and more.

quote:

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You call SBA new army....guess what '97, mother('79) and cousin(94, and who worked at cut every year) dont.

---

Guy you don't know ('95) doesn't either.

This may be sort of tangential but I feel it has something to do with that last post of Ag08...

I had the opportunity last April to work a really hands on role in the 50th Reunion of the Class of 1956 occuring the same time as Muster. I was able to do everything from check these guys into their hotles, to sit and have a beer with them, to sit by the pool and get them drinks, to have a suit and tie dinner with them, to watch a special Silver Taps for their class members and finally to attend Muster and sit on the floor with these men. Just listening to their memories and watching them interact with one another certainly made me feel like they were more Aggies than I was. It seemed they had a much better grasp on brotherhood and what it was to be an Aggie. Don't get me wrong, I see myself as much an Aggie as anybody else, but these guys just really had something special about them I just don't see walking around campus these days.

Ag, I do agree though, anybody that turns up their nose at you simply because they were BORN earlier is a snot. They aren't better than you or me, and this Old Army/New Army nonsense is ridiculous when you look at the big picture and the great thing we're all a part of.

As much as I enjoyed those old Ags' stories, they enjoyed hearing my stories too. We embraced our differences...Aggies, take note.

[This message has been edited by SquareOne07 (edited 10/19/2006 12:35a).]

you would be suprised, theres still a large, silent, majority that wants things the way they were..... If we can figure out how to get them to step up to it, that could change as well...

I have some ideas of my own about how that can happen, i may be asking for input from some of you old farts on it to, but that discussion will wait until bonfire is done, to many important things to see done wiht it first....


Im finaly starting to get my foot and knee back to a point were i can use them again(a summer of strength trianing cleaning up from a hurricane helped), and you WILL see me out at stack and cut more this year!

BTW kip, what was your major? you might know my cousin....

____________________________________________________________
Proudest member of the Fightin Texas Aggie class of 08 Beat the h*** outa tu A-A-A Whoop!!!. May bonfire forever burn in our hearts.....and may the Twelfth Man ever burn it in memory and in hope for the future.



[This message has been edited by Ag_of_08 (edited 10/19/2006 12:40a).]

quote:

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Bonfire participation was small. Even in the most red-ass dorm on campus, Fightin’ Texas Aggie T.O. Walton Hall, participation was 15% at best.

---

Wow! Old Army has lots of liars!

I wish the students of today could have been a part of the old bonfire. For the 90% of the school who didnt or doesnt get involved in the construction aspect is completely irrelevant. I was never involved in the construction portion, but never missed a bonfire. It truely was an unbelieveable experience that tied all aggies together. Former, Current, Future Ags could find a medium to connect that was like no other. I feel sorry for all that were unable to experience that feeling, and simply wonder what current students get out of the new bonfire?

Ag 08 - this is not a classic you werent on campus, etc, etc, etc - I simply feel sorry for the dog and pony show you are doing to try to act like it actually means something. The thing that made Bonfire so special was that everyone was supporting the event. Students, Parents, Siblings, Admnistrators, College Station Residents. The administration does not support the event, 95% of the students do not support the event, the county has taken steps cancel your event. I just wonder whats the point, and if its worth it??

quote:

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The thing that made Bonfire so special was that everyone was supporting the event. Students, Parents, Siblings, Admnistrators, College Station Residents.

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Are you speaking as a college station resident of pre-1999? Most of the non university affiliated town locked themselves inside for the night to avoid traffic, drunk drivers, and a gigantic mess...there was nowhere to eat, nothing to do, and nowhere to go.

quote:

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95% of the students do not support the event

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couldn't you change this made up statistic to 98% so I could tell you that maybe there is a new meaning to the term 2%er? Or maybe we could call them 5%ers...

quote:

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the county has taken steps cancel your event. I just wonder whats the point, and if its worth it??

---

ever heard the term "redass"?

the class of 1956 would have been all corps...this more than likely accounts for the feeling that they are closer-knit than aggies today. They were also not a part of the general wussification that the entire country is going through, none of their moms threatened a lawsuit because their 22 year old child was being an Aggie.

Ultimately, the true Aggie spirit gets lost when you cannot recall the name of every person you pass when heading to class. TAMC could have stayed the small, military style, Agricultural and Mechanical College of Texas, but it didn't...it grew. It grew so large that it is no longer the same, TAMC and TAMU are different places...except for a small group of people that know the differece and try to live like there wasn't one.

Ag_of_08,

English. Beer, really, but the degree says English.

leknerd2004,

What part makes me a "liar," according to you?

This part?

quote:

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Even in the most red-ass dorm on campus, Fightin’ Texas Aggie T.O. Walton Hall,

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Walton is, or at least was, the most red-ass dorm on campus. Deal with it.

Or this part?

quote:

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participation was 15% at best.

---

Well, if Walton had 350 residents(11 ramps, four floors, 4 rooms per floor, 2 residents per room . . . you do the math. That number is actually high because the RD's room and TV lounge take up 8 rooms or so), and we got 53 people out (52.5, but let's round up), that is 15%. As I said, at BEST it was 15%. We had the occassional 50 people, but usually it would have been half that.

So how am I a liar?

Or was it about Bonfire participation being small? It was. Out of around 45,000 students, maybe 1,000 would participate in the build every year. Do the math there . . . . it's about 2%.

Bonfire did not change the attitude on campus. A change in society including the youth culture and the administrators obeying PC-police. In the 90's, there were no more than 2000 students working on it. SB has about 1000 this year.

As far as involving the entire community, SB is continuing something until it can return. I don't mean return to campus, but return to being natural, or fitting in BCS. When the litigations are over, I believe TAMU will stop banning (or putting unofficial/indirect restrictions) students to go.

The University won't keep the former students and locals in the dark about it. They probably won't promote it, but they won't hide it. Flyers on campus will probably stay hanging longer.

There isn't much promotion to the former students. Why, because it’s expensive, its a business. But, more and more former students join and start to help.

I believe that most(not all) people that criticize SB, have never come out to experience the building of it. They don't know how red-ass it is, how similar it is to ol'army for good things, how dissimilar it is to ol’army for bad things, and how fun it is.


[This message has been edited by Armadillo Jackal (edited 10/19/2006 8:54a).]

This argument will never end. Bonfire fell while Texas A&M was growing up and changing for the better. I would argue that the day Gates stepped foot on campus is a much larger cornerstone date for when Texas A&M really began to change. And for the better! That man has giving this University a foot hold for the future.

We need to stop attempting to "restore" culture. It changes and evolves. Allow that process to happen. This is a different student body with a different Bonfire. It isnt your Bonfire, so you don't like it. But it is OURS. It is what we have. And by God we love it.

quote:

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I simply feel sorry for the dog and pony show you are doing to try to act like it actually means something

---

It does mean something to the people involved. You already mentioned that you yourself never took part of building Bonfire but just participated. So how can you tell somone that they don't know what it means?

quote:

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The thing that made Bonfire so special was that everyone was supporting the event. Students, Parents, Siblings, Admnistrators, College Station Residents

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When were you at ATM? I am just wondering because this statement is false for most people. Ever hear of Aggies against Bonfire? Did EVERY student show up to cut, stack or burn? What about the residents that lived across George Bush when Bonfire was at Duncan? Administrators? Hell, most of them were trying to find a way to get rid of it from the begining.

quote:

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The administration does not support the event, 95% of the students do not support the event, the county has taken steps cancel your event. I just wonder whats the point, and if its worth it

---

Now the administration does not support it but mostly for legal reasons. But where do you get the 95% of the students don't support it? Have you taken a poll? The county does have it's say, but the members of Bonfire today are constantly working with the city and county to make things safer/better.

The point is that the students who are involved in Bonfire today are not unlike those who began the Tradition in the early 1900's. They were told not to, but they did. Now the current students want to carry on something that means something special to most Aggies. What they are doing should be commended.

I find it amusing when people who NEVER particpiated or aren't currently particpating in the construction aspect of bonfire think they are allowed to have opinions about what bonfire was or is.
Everyone knows that your opinions only matter if you live/lived in the most red-ass dorm on campus ever and the reason bonfire still burns....



Fightin' Texas Aggie MOSES HALL!!!!!



How's that for a holier than thou elitist old fart attitude.

quote:

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What part makes me a "liar," according to you?

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Kip, calm down. I wasn't referring to you; I believe you. But I've heard people claim 90% turnout.

quote:

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This is a different student body with a different Bonfire. It isnt your Bonfire, so you don't like it. But it is OURS. It is what we have. And by God we love it.

---

nerd,

I am calm. Just wondering what I was lying about. Now I know it wasn't me you meant.

Thanks.

Oh, and 90% participation is a pipe dream. I've never heard that statistic, but whoever said it is not only a liar, but delusional.

quote:

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I wish the students of today could have been a part of the old bonfire. For the 90% of the school who didnt or doesnt get involved in the construction aspect is completely irrelevant. I was never involved in the construction portion, but never missed a bonfire. It truely was an unbelieveable experience that tied all aggies together. Former, Current, Future Ags could find a medium to connect that was like no other. I feel sorry for all that were unable to experience that feeling, and simply wonder what current students get out of the new bonfire?

---

And I started ignoring your jackassery right there. You make up percentages, come up with HS answers and posts, and expectanyone to care when you never lifted a finger to help?

I may not be involved enough, but at least i try. If youve never worked on bonfire, if you dont know what the construction means, then congratulations, the only thing youve done more than me is a seen two extra on campus fires.

quote:

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What about the residents that lived across George Bush when Bonfire was at Duncan?

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HA! I was there for the last one, i remember my cousin having to spray there roof down the year before with a waterhose

quote:

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Everyone knows that your opinions only matter if you live/lived in the most red-ass dorm on campus ever and the reason bonfire still burns....


How's that for a holier than thou elitist old fart attitude.

---

T.O.M. D.O.S.S.
Git er DUNN



if you just werent deluded about the most redass dorm on campus

____________________________________________________________
Proudest member of the Fightin Texas Aggie class of 08 Beat the h*** outa tu A-A-A Whoop!!!. May bonfire forever burn in our hearts.....and may the Twelfth Man ever burn it in memory and in hope for the future.



[This message has been edited by Ag_of_08 (edited 10/19/2006 12:24p).]

Everyone is eventually OCA!

BTW, are any of you in the SCC right now......look for a fat redheaded guy up front.




____________________________________________________________
Proudest member of the Fightin Texas Aggie class of 08 Beat the h*** outa tu A-A-A Whoop!!!. May bonfire forever burn in our hearts.....and may the Twelfth Man ever burn it in memory and in hope for the future.

'eventually' can be a very long time.

quote:

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'eventually' can be a very long time.

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Does Kenneth still live on campus?

quote:

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I just wonder whats the point, and if its worth it??

---

that kind of hurts my feelings. that undermines every drop of blood, sweat, and tears that has built bonfire since '99. the point, is that I am still very passionate about a tradition that I not only build, but that builds me. it's not an attempt at restoration, for me, it's a continuation. it's a participation in activity that flourished when I was too young to know any better, where the roots run so deep it's as common as bleeding maroon. to me, bonfire IS a part of MY aggie heritage. being an aggie is bigger than the acceptance and approval of the administration [not to say that it shouldn't be taken into consideration]. it has taught me dedication, comradery, responsibility, and leadership. i met my aggie family through bonfire.

there are few people in this world that i do not get along with, and one of those people is active in SB. we had a mutual distaste for each other, and it was never hidden. when i was absolutely helpless last week, this person picked me up and set me back on my feet. why? because we have a mutual love for something that means so much to it's participants. with an organization that has such strong ties within it's members, that they are willing to overlook personal differences and look out for each other's wellbeing, i would say that yes, it is absolutely "worth it" to me, as an individual.

...ill go sit in the corner now.

[This message has been edited by WH08PsyJayci (edited 10/19/2006 3:51p).]

[This message has been edited by WH08PsyJayci (edited 10/19/2006 3:52p).]

quote:

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that kind of hurts my feelings. that undermines every drop of blood, sweat, and tears that has built bonfire since 1909

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FIFY

quote:

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The thing that made Bonfire so special was that everyone was supporting the event. Students, Parents, Siblings, Admnistrators, College Station Residents.

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Yeah, I'm sure everyone supported Bonfire in 1912 when it was 4 years old.

quote:

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...and simply wonder what current students get out of the new bonfire?

---

quote:

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It truely was an unbelieveable experience that tied all aggies together. Former, Current, Future Ags could find a medium to connect that was like no other.

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You answered your own question in the sentences before it.

I could be wrong...or just saying this because I didn't sleep at all last night, and then went and took a midtem at 8 this morning...but I would ventuire to say that the effects of Bonfire these days are felt by a substanitially fewer amount of people, and because of this, a substanitially fewer amount of people grasp the importance of Bonfire.

I would say that in order to bring it back full force like it ought to be, there's gonna have to be more than just the actual Bonfire year in and year out. It's that restoration of culture thing...people need to know what it does for you and you and you, and people need to know what it was and all that good stuff.

Does that make sense?

squareone, me and you are gonna have a talk about a little idea come the time bonfire done....


Old army-Jayci didnt mean an insult, or to seperate old bonfire from the newer fires, i think she meant it as "your insulting everyone who has put the time and effort in since '99 with your comments...". in relaity....the FIFY could be a "added the rest of it for you" WHOOP!

____________________________________________________________
Proudest member of the Fightin Texas Aggie class of 08 Beat the h*** outa tu A-A-A Whoop!!!. May bonfire forever burn in our hearts.....and may the Twelfth Man ever burn it in memory and in hope for the future.

quote:

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The thing that made Bonfire so special was that everyone was supporting the event.

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#1. Everyone was not supporting the event

#2. What made Bonfire special was that it was BUILT by Aggies for Aggies, not that it was burned for Aggies. The work that went into it made it the spectacle it is. Do you think 70k would gather to see a 50ft tower of pallets burn?

quote:

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I was never involved in the construction portion, but never missed a bonfire. It truely was an unbelieveable experience that tied all aggies together. Former, Current, Future Ags could find a medium to connect that was like no other. I feel sorry for all that were unable to experience that feeling, and simply wonder what current students get out of the new bonfire?

---

I feel sorry for anyone that missed out on the opportunity to BUILD Bonfire.

Ha...alright ag08, what is this chat you and I need to have?

Also, in reference to the above post's second point: If this is still the same Bonfire (by Aggies, for Aggies) that you say existed prior to 99, how come you aren't pulling the 70K? It is the same Bonfire...isn't it? No, 70K wouldn't gather to watch 50 feet of pallets burn, but not even 10K are coming out to Bonfire. Time to hit the drawing board...

I'm ready to get blasted for this one, I don't really care. This isn't the same Bonfire. While it's still built by Aggies who have an intense passion for Bonfire and the Tradition it was/is, it's not the same in the sense that it's built for Aggies. Turnout/involvement will tell you that.

I would imagine prior to 2000, non-regs, corps, frat, sorority, former students and future Aggies all looked forward to the week of Thanksgiving so they could make the trip to CS if they weren't already there to watch it burn. But now members of SB have to try to heavily recruit people just to come out to their event, as if it were a fundraiser, and in a way, it is unfortunately.

Bonfire is not what it was. Period. If there is an organizational commitment to making that happen alongside building it year in and year out, then perhaps a more consorted effort could be made. (Working with administration in some way shape or form, not seeing BCS as your rival, not telling people who don't participate in it that they are "nothing and need to F off", not alienating former students). I think we ALL want to see it come back to the way it was, huge crowds, burning passion across the majority of the student body, a non-divisive Bonfire.

[This message has been edited by SquareOne07 (edited 10/21/2006 8:39a).]