Create Account said:

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The Banned said:

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Create Account said:

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The Banned said:

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I guess I know I really don't mean it. I don't take repentance seriously and will succumb to temptation shortly.

I brought this same thing up in confession once, and the priest said (roughly) the following:

- the fact that you know you should mean it is promising

- if you know you should mean it, but the intrusive thoughts comes in that you don't actually mean it and you're going to sin again so there is no point, where does that thought come from? In the christian view, it's very easy to label that intrusive thought as a demonic lie the demoralize you. And you can see that it is demoralizing you, so their lie is working.

I am not a spiritual director, so take my advice with a grain of salt: you may want to begin praying against this particular lie and rebuke the source of that lie in the name of Jesus.

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I appreciate that and have had this same reflection. How can you tell this is a demonic lie to demoralize you, or an angelic encouragement to flee from hypocrisy?

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what do you mean by angelic encouragement to flee hypocrisy? Like "if i don't feel like sin is a bid deal, stop believing sin is a big deal?

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No, I'm saying the intrusive thoughts you're talking about may be coming from an angel, not a demon. Telling me that I'm not actually sincere and I make little concerted effort to resist temptation. So my prayers are going to be hindered until there is a change. Because would God give me peace while I hold onto sin flippantly?

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What is your priest or pastor telling you about them?

88Warrior said:

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Create Account said:

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I may try to do better for the sake of being good, but in the end, I don't believe my sin to be that serious. Tomorrow is another day and maybe I'll care more then like I should.

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You'll get a lot of good (and not so good..) opinions and advice on this thread but in the end it's going to come down to you and God having a "conversation" about this…I pray you get this figured out with His guidance.

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Agree.

Additional thoughts on why people don't take sin serious.

• lack of an eternal perspective
• lack of understanding the value/consequences of obedience in this life
• lack of understanding the value/consequences of obedience in the next

Example: Most of my church life did not include deep, sound teaching. The ultimate end result seemed to be conversion. Once you believe, try to be a good person. We never talked about temptation, believers wrestling with sin, eternal motivations.

"what we do in life echoes in eternity" - This quote from Gladiator rings true.

This reward and loss is referring to believers.

10 According to the grace of God which was given to me, like a wise master builder I laid a foundation, and another is building on it. But each man must be careful how he builds on it. 11 For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each man's work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man's work. 14 If any man's work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward. 15 If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

The truth wealth gospel. God wants you to be filthy rich! Not in this life with temporary things but with eternal treasure.

19 "Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. 20 But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys, and where thieves do not break in or steal; 21 for where your treasure is, there your heart will be also

Only true of believers...

11 It is a trustworthy statement:
For if we died with Him, we will also live with Him;
12 If we endure, we will also reign with Him;
If we deny Him, He also will deny us; (not revoke our salvation - see the next verse)
13 If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself.

Fighting against your sin is a true sign you are in Christ.

Keep fighting, keep praying for strength, keep reading your bible, get involved in Church. We all fight sin as Christians.

Create Account said:

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The Banned said:

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Create Account said:

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The Banned said:

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I guess I know I really don't mean it. I don't take repentance seriously and will succumb to temptation shortly.

I brought this same thing up in confession once, and the priest said (roughly) the following:

- the fact that you know you should mean it is promising

- if you know you should mean it, but the intrusive thoughts comes in that you don't actually mean it and you're going to sin again so there is no point, where does that thought come from? In the christian view, it's very easy to label that intrusive thought as a demonic lie the demoralize you. And you can see that it is demoralizing you, so their lie is working.

I am not a spiritual director, so take my advice with a grain of salt: you may want to begin praying against this particular lie and rebuke the source of that lie in the name of Jesus.

---

I appreciate that and have had this same reflection. How can you tell this is a demonic lie to demoralize you, or an angelic encouragement to flee from hypocrisy?

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what do you mean by angelic encouragement to flee hypocrisy? Like "if i don't feel like sin is a bid deal, stop believing sin is a big deal?

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No, I'm saying the intrusive thoughts you're talking about may be coming from an angel, not a demon. Telling me that I'm not actually sincere and I make little concerted effort to resist temptation. So my prayers are going to be hindered until there is a change. Because would God give me peace while I hold onto sin flippantly?

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God and his angels for that matter cannot contradict themselves. That is your first clue.

There is some truth in Kurt's post about intention. It sounds as if you intend to avoid this sin but are having trouble resisting whatever temptation comes your way.

Without knowing any specifics, I will share a recurring temptation that I have been struggling with since I was probably 12 or 13- porn. At first it was a Playboy magazine my friends brought to school and more recently online. It is probably the same sin I have been confessing for years. I know the priest well enough that he recognizes my voice at the confessional- so I share this in the hope that you understand that this particular sin, while on the surface seems harmless- is in fact very serious.

Without the grace of God, I am sure I would have left my family years ago. Because porn is a selfish sin. It turns you inward and perverts your view of others- in particular, women. You stop seeing them as God's creation and look at them in a self interest way- which is the aim of porn. It's all a fantasy- a lie about what women want and what is real love.

Again, a masterful job by the prince of lies. Only God can free us from this vice. That is why, maybe you are at the right point to try God. It is a surrender to his will for you and your life. Hope you give him a chance.

88Warrior said:

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Create Account said:

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I may try to do better for the sake of being good, but in the end, I don't believe my sin to be that serious. Tomorrow is another day and maybe I'll care more then like I should.

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You'll get a lot of good (and not so good..) opinions and advice on this thread but in the end it's going to come down to you and God having a "conversation" about this…I pray you get this figured out with His guidance.

---

I am not sure what is meant by having a "conversation with God," but everything God wants us to know is written in the holy scriptures. There is no new revelation that will come down to us. If we need insight about our sin and the proper response we should be seeking, it is all laid out for us. So, I would encourage the OP to consider the Word of God's role in their life at this time. At the same time, I preach this very truth to my own self - I need to hear and affirm it everyday.

Romans 7:7-12
English Standard Version
What then shall we say? That the law is sin? By no means! Yet if it had not been for the law, I would not have known sin. For I would not have known what it is to covet if the law had not said, "You shall not covet." But sin, seizing an opportunity through the commandment, produced in me all kinds of covetousness. For apart from the law, sin lies dead. I was once alive apart from the law, but when the commandment came, sin came alive and I died. The very commandment that promised life proved to be death to me. For sin, seizing an opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and through it killed me. So the law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good.

Psalm 1:1-2
English Standard Version
Blessed is the man who walks not in the counsel of the wicked,
nor stands in the way of sinners, nor sits in the seat of scoffers;
but his delight is in the law of the Lord, and on his law he meditates day and night.

Finally, I would also point to all of Psalm 51.

Psalm 51:1-4
To the choirmaster. A Psalm of David, when Nathan the prophet went to him, after he had gone in to Bathsheba.

Have mercy on me, O God, according to your steadfast love;
according to your abundant mercy blot out my transgressions.
Wash me thoroughly from my iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin!
For I know my transgressions, and my sin is ever before me.
Against you, you only, have I sinned and done what is evil in your sight,
so that you may be justified in your words and blameless in your judgment.

Psalm 51:16-17
For you will not delight in sacrifice, or I would give it; you will not be pleased with a burnt offering.
The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit; a broken and contrite heart, O God, you will not despise.

10andBOUNCE said:

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88Warrior said:

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Create Account said:

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I may try to do better for the sake of being good, but in the end, I don't believe my sin to be that serious. Tomorrow is another day and maybe I'll care more then like I should.

---

You'll get a lot of good (and not so good..) opinions and advice on this thread but in the end it's going to come down to you and God having a "conversation" about this…I pray you get this figured out with His guidance.

---

I am not sure what is meant by having a "conversation with God," but everything God wants us to know is written in the holy scriptures. There is no new revelation that will come down to us. If we need insight about our sin and the proper response we should be seeking, it is all laid out for us. So, I would encourage the OP to consider the Word of God's role in their life at this time. At the same time, I preach this very truth to my own self - I need to hear and affirm it everyday.

Romans 7:7-12
English Standard Version
What then shall we say? That the law is sin? By no means! Yet if it had not been for the law, I would not have known sin. For I would not have known what it is to covet if the law had not said, "You shall not covet." But sin, seizing an opportunity through the commandment, produced in me all kinds of covetousness. For apart from the law, sin lies dead. I was once alive apart from the law, but when the commandment came, sin came alive and I died. The very commandment that promised life proved to be death to me. For sin, seizing an opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and through it killed me. So the law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good.

Psalm 1:1-2
English Standard Version
Blessed is the man who walks not in the counsel of the wicked,
nor stands in the way of sinners, nor sits in the seat of scoffers;
but his delight is in the law of the Lord, and on his law he meditates day and night.

Finally, I would also point to all of Psalm 51.

Psalm 51:1-4
To the choirmaster. A Psalm of David, when Nathan the prophet went to him, after he had gone in to Bathsheba.

Have mercy on me, O God, according to your steadfast love;
according to your abundant mercy blot out my transgressions.
Wash me thoroughly from my iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin!
For I know my transgressions, and my sin is ever before me.
Against you, you only, have I sinned and done what is evil in your sight,
so that you may be justified in your words and blameless in your judgment.

Psalm 51:16-17
For you will not delight in sacrifice, or I would give it; you will not be pleased with a burnt offering.
The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit; a broken and contrite heart, O God, you will not despise.

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Conversation = Prayer…but ok…

I get it, but the same applies. God isn't going to offer anything new there. However you are absolutely correct that a healthy prayer life will play a vital role in revealing sin, convicting us, fostering repentance, etc.

Confession is actually my favorite part of the Divine Service. If there is anything I am convinced of, its that I do not deserve God's grace and that it is only by His mercy that there is hope for me. The words of absolution have brought tears to my eyes in relief many times.

The pastor states:
If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. But if we confess our sins, God who is faithful and just will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

We respond:
O almighty God, merciful Father, a poor, miserable sinner, confess unto You all my sins and iniquities with which I have ever offended You and justly deserved Your temporal and eternal punishment. But I am heartily sorry for them and sincerely repent of them, and I pray You of Your boundless mercy and for the sake of the holy, innocent, bitter sufferings and death of Your beloved Son, Jesus Christ, to be gracious and merciful to me, a poor sinful being.

The pastor responds:
Upon this your confession, I, by virtue of my office, as a called and ordained servant of the Word, announce the grace of God unto all of you, and in the stead and by the command of my Lord Jesus Christ I forgive you all your sins in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. [John 20:1923]




How comforting is that?! It's wonderful every time.

10andBOUNCE said:

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88Warrior said:

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Create Account said:

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I may try to do better for the sake of being good, but in the end, I don't believe my sin to be that serious. Tomorrow is another day and maybe I'll care more then like I should.

---

You'll get a lot of good (and not so good..) opinions and advice on this thread but in the end it's going to come down to you and God having a "conversation" about this…I pray you get this figured out with His guidance.

---

I am not sure what is meant by having a "conversation with God," but everything God wants us to know is written in the holy scriptures. There is no new revelation that will come down to us. If we need insight about our sin and the proper response we should be seeking, it is all laid out for us. So, I would encourage the OP to consider the Word of God's role in their life at this time. At the same time, I preach this very truth to my own self - I need to hear and affirm it everyday.

Romans 7:7-12
English Standard Version
What then shall we say? That the law is sin? By no means! Yet if it had not been for the law, I would not have known sin. For I would not have known what it is to covet if the law had not said, "You shall not covet." But sin, seizing an opportunity through the commandment, produced in me all kinds of covetousness. For apart from the law, sin lies dead. I was once alive apart from the law, but when the commandment came, sin came alive and I died. The very commandment that promised life proved to be death to me. For sin, seizing an opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and through it killed me. So the law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good.

Psalm 1:1-2
English Standard Version
Blessed is the man who walks not in the counsel of the wicked,
nor stands in the way of sinners, nor sits in the seat of scoffers;
but his delight is in the law of the Lord, and on his law he meditates day and night.

Finally, I would also point to all of Psalm 51.

Psalm 51:1-4
To the choirmaster. A Psalm of David, when Nathan the prophet went to him, after he had gone in to Bathsheba.

Have mercy on me, O God, according to your steadfast love;
according to your abundant mercy blot out my transgressions.
Wash me thoroughly from my iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin!
For I know my transgressions, and my sin is ever before me.
Against you, you only, have I sinned and done what is evil in your sight,
so that you may be justified in your words and blameless in your judgment.

Psalm 51:16-17
For you will not delight in sacrifice, or I would give it; you will not be pleased with a burnt offering.
The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit; a broken and contrite heart, O God, you will not despise.

---

I have a personal relationship with the Lord. I read Scripture to edify that relationship. The Holy Spirit convicts me of sin. I do not worship Scripture. I worship God.

It has been my understanding that god doesn't have a rating scale for sin. It's all the same to him. It's also my understanding that all humans sin, no matter what, all the time in some capacity or another….its who we are.

As such, I don't put a lot of care or worry into it. By the book, I sin before I even get out of bed in the morning so I just try to treat folks right and do my best and that's about all I can do. I do not attend church or go see the medicine man in the middle. I just accept the fact that I'm human, try to do better and hope it's good enough.

All of that said, I do feel like I'm better than most. And yes, I feel like that might count for something. You may lust over the neighbors new car, but you didn't murder anyone so, what more do you want? I figure if you only end up having to talk to the big guy about your tendency look at attractive women in public or your love of tequila in the evenings, you're doing pretty damn good.

I have no issue with that obviously; my point is that everything God needs to "say" to us is already in scripture. The Spirit isn't going to convict you of something that goes counter to that. I do think the Spirit presses in on some things in our lives as we grow in our faith that may be lawful however may not be beneficial for us. But there is no new revelation as it pertains to what is sin and not sin.

Well, the Bible says in Romans 6:23 the wages of sin is Death and just 1 sin is enough to cause that eternal punishment unless you accept Jesus's sacrifice for our sins. So I'd say based on that verse God takes ANY sin pretty serious.

Gomer95 said:

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Well, the Bible says in Romans 6:23 the wages of sin is Death and just 1 sin is enough to cause that eternal punishment unless you accept Jesus's sacrifice for our sins. So I'd say based on that verse God takes ANY sin pretty serious.

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I take that verse to mean that because of Original Sin, man lost his immortality and the wages of that sin was death.

And Jesus conquered death.

I mean, your sins are serious enough that someone died as a result.
Every thorn in the crown, every splinter in the back, every drop of blood is a result of our "not serious" sins, just as much as they are the consequences of the worst humans you can think of.

swimmerbabe11 said:

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I mean, your sins are serious enough that someone died as a result.
Every thorn in the crown, every splinter in the back, every drop of blood is a result of our "not serious" sins, just as much as they are the consequences of the worst humans you can think of.

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Agree.

Create Account said:

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The Banned said:

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Create Account said:

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The Banned said:

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I guess I know I really don't mean it. I don't take repentance seriously and will succumb to temptation shortly.

I brought this same thing up in confession once, and the priest said (roughly) the following:

- the fact that you know you should mean it is promising

- if you know you should mean it, but the intrusive thoughts comes in that you don't actually mean it and you're going to sin again so there is no point, where does that thought come from? In the christian view, it's very easy to label that intrusive thought as a demonic lie the demoralize you. And you can see that it is demoralizing you, so their lie is working.

I am not a spiritual director, so take my advice with a grain of salt: you may want to begin praying against this particular lie and rebuke the source of that lie in the name of Jesus.

---

I appreciate that and have had this same reflection. How can you tell this is a demonic lie to demoralize you, or an angelic encouragement to flee from hypocrisy?

---

what do you mean by angelic encouragement to flee hypocrisy? Like "if i don't feel like sin is a bid deal, stop believing sin is a big deal?

---

No, I'm saying the intrusive thoughts you're talking about may be coming from an angel, not a demon. Telling me that I'm not actually sincere and I make little concerted effort to resist temptation. So my prayers are going to be hindered until there is a change. Because would God give me peace while I hold onto sin flippantly?

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I agree with AGC that a true spiritual director who can have longer talks with you are what's best.

As far as your question, a message being sent by a holy messenger isn't supposed to result in a message that your prayer isn't going to help you or they will be hindered in some way. A holy message would be encouraging you to power through and keep at it. To seek help from fellow christians (which may be present, if you're posting as you are).

A message saying that sin isn't a big deal, or that it's all your fault for not caring enough, that isn't coming from a holy messenger.

Yes I agree.

Did we finally establish that all sin is serious?

dermdoc….well spoken sir.

PabloSerna said:

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Did we finally establish that all sin is serious?

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Of course all sin is serious. But the real problem is our inherent sin nature.

Justification is wonderful and saves us. But we must synergistically work, with the Spirit, on our sin nature through sanctification/theosis.

That is an ontological process, not a judicial one.

Create Account said:

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DirtDiver said:

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I'm going to throw out some ideas as to why I would think we do not think our sins are serious. Some of these may apply...

• We do not agree with God about the definition is sin.
• We have not lived long enough to see the consequences of sin and the impact it has on others.
• The consequences of sin are not always immediate.
• The downstream consequences of sin are often never known to us.
• We don't believe God and the biblical accounts of the results of sins or the severity or understand them
• We minimize the wrath of God
• We minimize the wrath of God poured out on an innocent person.

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Yes, it becomes serious to me when the consequences are immediately apparent - I hurt someone or disappointed them. But otherwise, I guess it boils down to me not believing it's all that bad or that there will be any serious consequences. Maybe because I've never experienced the wrath of God in any apparent way. dermdoc pointed out that God's son experienced it, but I haven't.

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Not to be rude but I think you are missing a key point. God's view of things is far greater than ours. As is his power. I trust God's word and ways far more than I do my own limited and always changing understanding of things. Views I had regarding "Sin" 20 years ago are much clearer today than then because the consequences expand and become evident over time.

God had this stuff figured out a long time ago. Life is far better when you try to roll His way.

DirtDiver said:

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Create Account said:

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PacifistAg said:

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Quote:

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Yes, it becomes serious to me when the consequences are immediately apparent

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Take smoking for example. The consequences of smoking are not immediately apparent. One doesn't smoke one cigarette then immediately develop lung cancer. Sin distorts the divine image within humanity. It draws one further from communion with God.

Or, another analogy, it is taking a wrong turn while driving. You may not even realize it at the time, and if you turn back to the right path immediately, you may even avoid the consequence of driving far out of the way. But if you don't see the wrong turn as a big deal, before you know it, you're just that much further from your destination.

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What does that look like spiritually? Because I may be there. I think last time I was here I expressed that I am growing apathetic. I rarely pray. And the "we fall so we can get up again, ask forgiveness and move forward" has had me spinning my wheels for years. I look back on my life and see no progress. If anything, I have regressed since I became a Christian and can only conclude I'm a hypocrite. Which hinders my prayers.

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If Christians are brutally honest, our entire lives from the moment of faith are roller coasters of walking faithfully at times and in the very next moment making sinful choices, wrestling with sinful thoughts, and reacting in horrible immoral ways or equally horrible self-righteous ways. Jesus alone is without sin.

The starting point of walking again is often getting back to the basics and wrestling with tough questions. Do you believe Christianity is all about living up to an impossible moral standard or religious practices or have you gone from being spiritually dead to being spiritually live by faith in Jesus?

Side note illustration: Our culture is hypersexualized. The last 20-30 years a 'hook-up' culture has been sold through television and media. Just about the worst one will hear about sex is that it's wrong to cheat on someone. There are unknown killers as well. One being the HPV virus that is an STD that can lead to cervical cancer. My sister dated a "player" - one not committed to her alone and died from cervical cancer. While not conclusive the evidence provides that as a potential cause of her death. What seems innocent and fun now with little consequences may have a snowball effect. She now has a 2 daughters without a mother and a husband without a wife.

Questions to reflect on:
What good other than temporary pleasure has sin produced in your life?
How many broken relationships in your life and the lives of others can you tie to sin?

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Excellent post and spot on. I used to be one pf those "Players" you spoke of. I knew God and occasionally prayed, and even, occasionally went to church as I tried not to look at all the hot women in their sun dresses. My idiocy of that time and the ensuring consequences have me totally in the "God is and was right about the damage sin can do in ones life". He tried to warn me, tried to protect me but noooo I wouldn't listen.

After lots of pain and grief that I caused myself and even worse, others, I now clearly see the damage and dangers of sin and exactly why God warns us the way He does. I have long since repented and still repent because despite mass improvement I still struggle with my weaknesses. But with Gods help I am having far far better success in living the way the Lords wants me too and with that I am far happier in life.

Trust God he knows what He is doing.

ttu_85 said:

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DirtDiver said:

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Create Account said:

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PacifistAg said:

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Quote:

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Yes, it becomes serious to me when the consequences are immediately apparent

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Take smoking for example. The consequences of smoking are not immediately apparent. One doesn't smoke one cigarette then immediately develop lung cancer. Sin distorts the divine image within humanity. It draws one further from communion with God.

Or, another analogy, it is taking a wrong turn while driving. You may not even realize it at the time, and if you turn back to the right path immediately, you may even avoid the consequence of driving far out of the way. But if you don't see the wrong turn as a big deal, before you know it, you're just that much further from your destination.

---

What does that look like spiritually? Because I may be there. I think last time I was here I expressed that I am growing apathetic. I rarely pray. And the "we fall so we can get up again, ask forgiveness and move forward" has had me spinning my wheels for years. I look back on my life and see no progress. If anything, I have regressed since I became a Christian and can only conclude I'm a hypocrite. Which hinders my prayers.

---

If Christians are brutally honest, our entire lives from the moment of faith are roller coasters of walking faithfully at times and in the very next moment making sinful choices, wrestling with sinful thoughts, and reacting in horrible immoral ways or equally horrible self-righteous ways. Jesus alone is without sin.

The starting point of walking again is often getting back to the basics and wrestling with tough questions. Do you believe Christianity is all about living up to an impossible moral standard or religious practices or have you gone from being spiritually dead to being spiritually live by faith in Jesus?

Side note illustration: Our culture is hypersexualized. The last 20-30 years a 'hook-up' culture has been sold through television and media. Just about the worst one will hear about sex is that it's wrong to cheat on someone. There are unknown killers as well. One being the HPV virus that is an STD that can lead to cervical cancer. My sister dated a "player" - one not committed to her alone and died from cervical cancer. While not conclusive the evidence provides that as a potential cause of her death. What seems innocent and fun now with little consequences may have a snowball effect. She now has a 2 daughters without a mother and a husband without a wife.

Questions to reflect on:
What good other than temporary pleasure has sin produced in your life?
How many broken relationships in your life and the lives of others can you tie to sin?

---

Excellent post and spot on. I used to be one pf those "Players" you spoke of. I knew God and occasionally prayed, and even, occasionally went to church as I tried not to look at all the hot women in their sun dresses. My idiocy of that time and the ensuring consequences have me totally in the "God is and was right about the damage sin can do in ones life". He tried to warn me, tried to protect me but noooo I wouldn't listen.

After lots of pain and grief that I caused myself and even worse, others, I now clearly see the damage and dangers of sin and exactly why God warns us the way He does. I have long since repented and still repent because despite mass improvement I still struggle with my weaknesses. But with Gods help I am having far far better success in living the way the Lords wants me too and with that I am far happier in life.

Trust God he knows what He is doing.

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Great post.

Amen. Trust him, especially with your own salvation and preservation to the end