I'm hoping some of the orthodox members of the board can chime in and see if I'm reading things correctly, but despite some of the friendly overtures between Pope Francis and the Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew, I don't see how Catholic and Orthodoxy can ever come back together "en toto"

The biggest hurdle is the autonomous nature of most Orthodox Churches, while EP Bartholomew is the spiritual leader of the Orthodox Church and considered first among equals, he has nowhere near the sort of power that the Pope has in making declarations which other churches have to follow (the break in communion between the Russian Orthodox Church and Constantinople over Ukraine being one example).

Provided he even did decide re-enter communion with the Catholic Church, there would likely be a massive backlash in orthodoxy with many churches breaking communion with Constantinople and/or declaring themselves to be the "true" church.

Orthodox friends, am I on the right track here?

Quote:

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Provided he even did decide re-enter communion with the Catholic Church

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From practicality alone, wouldn't the Catholic Church need to change the body of the Eucharist to leavened bread for this to happen?

88Warrior said:

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Quo Vadis? said:

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I'm hoping some of the orthodox members of the board can chime in and see if I'm reading things correctly, but despite some of the friendly overtures between Pope Francis and the Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew, I don't see how Catholic and Orthodoxy can ever come back together "en toto"

The biggest hurdle is the autonomous nature of most Orthodox Churches, while EP Bartholomew is the spiritual leader of the Orthodox Church and considered first among equals, he has nowhere near the sort of power that the Pope has in making declarations which other churches have to follow (the break in communion between the Russian Orthodox Church and Constantinople over Ukraine being one example).

Provided he even did decide re-enter communion with the Catholic Church, there would likely be a massive backlash in orthodoxy with many churches breaking communion with Constantinople and/or declaring themselves to be the "true" church.

Orthodox friends, am I on the right track here?

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Explain why you've got the EO church bearing all the burden to reunite the two churches? What would prevent the RCC from reuniting? No dog in this..I'm neither EO nor RCC just some wayward former Methodist now "Wesleyan" that's curious…

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It's not a "who bears the burden" issue, but an issue of "how". On one end (catholic) we have one governing body to settle on terms, while on the other (EO) there are a number of churches that have to be satisfied individually but in unison (somehow).

Quo Vadis? said:

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I'm hoping some of the orthodox members of the board can chime in and see if I'm reading things correctly, but despite some of the friendly overtures between Pope Francis and the Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew, I don't see how Catholic and Orthodoxy can ever come back together "en toto"

The biggest hurdle is the autonomous nature of most Orthodox Churches, while EP Bartholomew is the spiritual leader of the Orthodox Church and considered first among equals, he has nowhere near the sort of power that the Pope has in making declarations which other churches have to follow (the break in communion between the Russian Orthodox Church and Constantinople over Ukraine being one example).

Provided he even did decide re-enter communion with the Catholic Church, there would likely be a massive backlash in orthodoxy with many churches breaking communion with Constantinople and/or declaring themselves to be the "true" church.

Orthodox friends, am I on the right track here?

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We've had two reunions already and both were overturned by the will of the laity back home. I feel pretty confident that if 100% of EO bishops signed a reunification pact with the pope tomorrow, it would be fought and ultimately overruled by their laymen.

The Banned said:

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88Warrior said:

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Quo Vadis? said:

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I'm hoping some of the orthodox members of the board can chime in and see if I'm reading things correctly, but despite some of the friendly overtures between Pope Francis and the Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew, I don't see how Catholic and Orthodoxy can ever come back together "en toto"

The biggest hurdle is the autonomous nature of most Orthodox Churches, while EP Bartholomew is the spiritual leader of the Orthodox Church and considered first among equals, he has nowhere near the sort of power that the Pope has in making declarations which other churches have to follow (the break in communion between the Russian Orthodox Church and Constantinople over Ukraine being one example).

Provided he even did decide re-enter communion with the Catholic Church, there would likely be a massive backlash in orthodoxy with many churches breaking communion with Constantinople and/or declaring themselves to be the "true" church.

Orthodox friends, am I on the right track here?

---

Explain why you've got the EO church bearing all the burden to reunite the two churches? What would prevent the RCC from reuniting? No dog in this..I'm neither EO nor RCC just some wayward former Methodist now "Wesleyan" that's curious…

---

It's not a "who bears the burden" issue, but an issue of "how". On one end (catholic) we have one governing body to settle on terms, while on the other (EO) there are a number of churches that have to be satisfied individually but in unison (somehow).

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So the RCC has a strong, central governance in the Vatican/Pope that sets/interprets policy and settles "disagreements" and the EO is a loose "confederation" of independent but aligned churches? Not being obtuse, sincerely asking to understand. Thanks

The Banned said:

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88Warrior said:

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The Banned said:

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88Warrior said:

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Quo Vadis? said:

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I'm hoping some of the orthodox members of the board can chime in and see if I'm reading things correctly, but despite some of the friendly overtures between Pope Francis and the Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew, I don't see how Catholic and Orthodoxy can ever come back together "en toto"

The biggest hurdle is the autonomous nature of most Orthodox Churches, while EP Bartholomew is the spiritual leader of the Orthodox Church and considered first among equals, he has nowhere near the sort of power that the Pope has in making declarations which other churches have to follow (the break in communion between the Russian Orthodox Church and Constantinople over Ukraine being one example).

Provided he even did decide re-enter communion with the Catholic Church, there would likely be a massive backlash in orthodoxy with many churches breaking communion with Constantinople and/or declaring themselves to be the "true" church.

Orthodox friends, am I on the right track here?

---

Explain why you've got the EO church bearing all the burden to reunite the two churches? What would prevent the RCC from reuniting? No dog in this..I'm neither EO nor RCC just some wayward former Methodist now "Wesleyan" that's curious…

---

It's not a "who bears the burden" issue, but an issue of "how". On one end (catholic) we have one governing body to settle on terms, while on the other (EO) there are a number of churches that have to be satisfied individually but in unison (somehow).

---

So the RCC has a strong, central governance in the Vatican/Pope that sets/interprets policy and settles "disagreements" and the EO is a loose "confederation" of independent but aligned churches? Not being obtuse, sincerely asking to understand. Thanks

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If you want to spend way too much time reading my interactions with a couple EO guys on the other thread, you can see i struggled with the same question lol. Essentially, yes. To paraphrase the way it was explained to me, "each bishop acts as his own pope"

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Thanks. I've read those threads before but tend to become disinterested when they eventually bog down and become bible knowledge or ego flexes. I'll dig into the RCC and EO split a little more on my own.

Episode 318&319 of the history of Byzantium podcast with Robin Pierson and Father John Strickland are great.

Zobel said:

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Depends on the particulars union. If the RCC were to renounce the Filioque and papal infallibility, I think all of the east would be overjoyed to be in union. If it's a superficial union where the EP just pretends everything is copacetic, probably won't go over well.

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Why don't we just compromise with the Orthodox accepting supreme jurisdiction and authority of the Pope over Christ's church on Earth and adding the Filioque to the creeds, and maybe even the Lord's Prayer if we feel like it.

Quo Vadis? said:

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Zobel said:

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Depends on the particulars union. If the RCC were to renounce the Filioque and papal infallibility, I think all of the east would be overjoyed to be in union. If it's a superficial union where the EP just pretends everything is copacetic, probably won't go over well.

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Why don't we just compromise with the Orthodox accepting supreme jurisdiction and authority of the Pope over Christ's church on Earth and adding the Filioque to the creeds, and maybe even the Lord's Prayer if we feel like it.

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I know this response wasn't immaculately conceived, but it's nevertheless worthy of a blue star from my fellow papists.

Its unfortunate but we are on different tracks of the mission.

747Ag said:

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Quo Vadis? said:

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Zobel said:

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Depends on the particulars union. If the RCC were to renounce the Filioque and papal infallibility, I think all of the east would be overjoyed to be in union. If it's a superficial union where the EP just pretends everything is copacetic, probably won't go over well.

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Why don't we just compromise with the Orthodox accepting supreme jurisdiction and authority of the Pope over Christ's church on Earth and adding the Filioque to the creeds, and maybe even the Lord's Prayer if we feel like it.

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I know this response wasn't immaculately conceived, but it's nevertheless worthy of a blue star from my fellow papists.

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*sigh* Lack of Stars...

Too much Nouvelle Theologie

Not enough Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus

This disharmony is tragic. Follow former Catholic now Orthodox Michael Warren Davis for high level discussion. Start here most recent.

https://yankeeathonite.substack.com/p/an-orthodox-case-for-the-papacy