And I might add that this is why I get so mad when I read guys like Paul Washer who says all of creation will rejoice when the damned go to hell or when Steve Lawson goes into detail about the tortures that will be inflicted by God himself.

I know of no Bible verses that support these views except maybe Matthew 25 46.

Where is the mercy and love? These are just men. And sinners.

I must not have the mind of Christ because I find no joy in punishment unless it is for good. Like any loving father would.

And I firmly believe Scripture supports my thoughts.

Malibu said:

---

Have deep conversations with them and listen, truly listen, to what they think about religion, morality, family, etc. If your agenda is to make the best argument their guard will be way up. If you listen, ask questions, probe, and meet them as intellectual equals rather than someone you need to fix, you'll probably have a better friendship, your faith will be stronger, and they'll be more open to your world view.

---

Good post

Just because they're Saul today does not mean they won't be Paul tomorrow. Treat your friends like friends and be loving always. What they believe about spirituality is not really any of your business unless they choose to make it so. That's ultimately between them and God anyway.

You hiss and throw holy water at them. Shake the demons out. Im not sure - I have lots of friends who non denominational type but really haven't had issues with me being a catholic. They ask questions from time to time but that's about it.

PabloSerna said:

---

like all my other friends.

---

This is easy to say, but OP is talking about friends being antagonistic. That's a bit different, no?

I appreciate the OP because I deal with this from my older brother and my mother. They toss out a rather offensive false view of the faith, surely not meaning to offend but it is what it is. When I try to correct the inaccuracy, always in a calm manner, I'm seen as the stick in the mud and taking things too seriously.

So I think it's a fair question. Does one sit silently by and let them continue in their incorrect view so as to keep the peace, or does one correct them, inevitably frustrating them/pissing them off? Or does it make no difference in the long run?

The Banned said:

---

PabloSerna said:

---

like all my other friends.

---

This is easy to say, but OP is talking about friends being antagonistic. That's a bit different, no?

I appreciate the OP because I deal with this from my older brother and my mother. They toss out a rather offensive false view of the faith, surely not meaning to offend but it is what it is. When I try to correct the inaccuracy, always in a calm manner, I'm seen as the stick in the mud and taking things too seriously.

So I think it's a fair question. Does one sit silently by and let them continue in their incorrect view so as to keep the peace, or does one correct them, inevitably frustrating them/pissing them off? Or does it make no difference in the long run?

---

I believe we should not attempt to correct them, but just witness to them by your actions and words. I know it is hard, but I would ignore any of their reactions. That is all you can or are supposed to do in my opinion.

And pray for the Spirit to move in their hearts.

dermdoc said:

---

I believe we should not attempt to correct them, but just witness to them by your actions and words. I know it is hard, but I would ignore any of their reactions. That is all you can or are supposed to do in my opinion.

And pray for the Spirit to move in their hearts.

---

Caricaturizing (or mis-caracaturizing) a disagreeable view feels fairly universal. We are all probably guilty of it sometimes and the recipient of it sometimes.

For what its worth, the approach I take is to 'know my audience'. There are going to be people that do not want to be corrected. And there are going to be people that are open to learning. For the latter, you should absolutely correct them and explain what you believe.

The Shank Ag said:

---

I've had a hard time with this lately. 2 of my closest friends (groomsmen in my wedding) are at best agnostic. Occasionally a topic in our greater friend group group text comes up with regards to religion and often few responses are antagonistic or even argumentative.

I refuse to push a square peg into a non-receptive round hole. I've tried to witness and never will back down on my faith in these type discussions, but it's getting harder and harder to not try to go fire and brimstone to some of their memes/S-texts.

I'm no type of converter, but how do yall interact with the people you love that don't share the same beliefs with grace

---

I've thought quite a bit on this in my own life. I would also consider myself someone who isn't a "converter"... And yet, we are called to be disciples who make disciples (2 Timothy 2:2). When you accept Jesus, being a "converter" is something we should strive for.

So, a few suggestions.

Question (1) to ask yourself:

How well do you know these men? Really, truly, actually know them? Guys are notoriously bad at having "best friends" that they know very little about. Some questions to consider how well you "know" your friend.

What was their family life like as a kid? How is their relationship with their parents? What are some of the biggest challenges they've had in life? If you asked them what would make them "overwhelmingly happy" in life, what would they say? What do they want their life to look like (goals, aspirations, etc.) over the next 5-10 years? You can even probe them about what their faith/religion/God looks like to them.

Do you know these things about these friends? If not, ask them! Ask them to meet up and start asking. And, even more important than finding out the answers to these questions is to LISTEN to them.

Question (2) to ask yourself:

Are you regularly praying for these individuals? Are you constantly petitioning the God of the universe to MOVE in these friends lives? If you believe God can do anything and also truly want your friends to know Jesus, make praying for them a priority in your life.

Question (3) to ask yourself:

Have you asked them to read scripture with you? Arguing is very unlikely to convince anyone that you are "right"... And that applies to many things in life, including trying to get someone to know Jesus. Instead, try to get them to read one of the four Gospels with you (my recommendation is John; happy to provide you some materials to guide you, if you are interested).

If you did question (1), let the Gospels speak to your friends story. Jesus is the ultimate answer. He is the perfect father. The perfect brother. The perfect friend. He will meet our needs, heal our hearts, mend our wounds, and more if we believe in him.

And remember the Holy Spirit needs to do all the work; only he can make it happen! You are just there to be a conduit.



I've got a few more suggestions on "logistics" but don't want to pretend I "know it all". Realistically, your friends may say "no" to reading scripture with you but, echoing what is already said in these posts, just be there for your friends, pray to God and trust that the Holy Sprit can work miracles.

It's not secret my faith is iffy at best, you know what I like when I meet heavy handed Christians? Nothing. Just be quiet and wait until a question Is asked. Don't sell it to them. Show it to them by how you handle life. Much like buying a new truck, I don't give a damn what the sales guy has to say about it. How good it is. How reliable. How it's going to save my job and haul my gear. I buy based on how it works for others.

Try that. Eventually I get curious and I start asking. Your friend will too and when he does that's the time to explain.

But at the end of the day, be their friend. It's not your job to save them. If god is who he says he is, it will be fine. My friends are vegans, vegetarians, democrats, Christian's, and non Christian's. They are all kinds of people who do things different than I do and they are all my friends and family.

It's going to take a lot of time for some. It took me 40 years to heard about Christmas and Easter and go from "haha….what a lying bunch of crap." to "well, maybe". 40 years to get to moved from no to I don't know". Not much but it's something.

Quote:

---

If god is who he says he is, it will be fine

---

God says he's holy, righteous, and renders judgement. If God is who he says He is, we'd be insane to dismiss his call to repentance and not run to the arms of a Savior.

Elmer Dobkins said:

---

Quote:

---

If god is who he says he is, it will be fine

---

God says he's holy, righteous, and renders judgement. If God is who he says He is, we'd be insane to dismiss his call to repentance and not run to the arms of a Savior.

---

Scripture also says God is love. And merciful. Scripture also says that God judges no one and has appointed Jesus as judge.

The fruits of the Spirit are peace, patience, love, joy, kindness, gentleness, goodness, faithfulness, and self control.

Gospel means Good News. And it is much better than a lot of us have been taught.

To me, that is the attitude of how we approach non believer friends.

The Shank Ag said:

---

I've had a hard time with this lately. 2 of my closest friends (groomsmen in my wedding) are at best agnostic. Occasionally a topic in our greater friend group group text comes up with regards to religion and often few responses are antagonistic or even argumentative.

I refuse to push a square peg into a non-receptive round hole. I've tried to witness and never will back down on my faith in these type discussions, but it's getting harder and harder to not try to go fire and brimstone to some of their memes/S-texts.

I'm no type of converter, but how do yall interact with the people you love that don't share the same beliefs with grace

---

Personally I know people who are openly antagonistic when I say even the smallest things with a religious slant. I simply refuse to "make them close friends" because I don't have any desire to deal with that all the time. I like to think that the way I live my life in a way that is a reflection of my love for Christ and they'll never be able to handle the explanation so why bother. They're grown adults, have heard the Word and refuse to accept it. That's their choice. If the Lord believes I should've tried harder to witness to them, then I'll understand and deal with that when the day comes that I get judged.

The Shank Ag said:

---

I've had a hard time with this lately. 2 of my closest friends (groomsmen in my wedding) are at best agnostic. Occasionally a topic in our greater friend group group text comes up with regards to religion and often few responses are antagonistic or even argumentative.

I refuse to push a square peg into a non-receptive round hole. I've tried to witness and never will back down on my faith in these type discussions, but it's getting harder and harder to not try to go fire and brimstone to some of their memes/S-texts.

I'm no type of converter, but how do yall interact with the people you love that don't share the same beliefs with grace

---

The Christian, handwringing over their inability to convince a non-believer, is the square peg in the round hole. There are only two ways to convince people: 1) Logic, reason, and evidence; or 2) emotional manipulation, sleight of hand, and indoctrination. Unfortunately, all you have is #2 to work with. Good luck with that on anyone who can think for themselves.

heteroscedasticity said:

---

The Christian, handwringing over their inability to convince a non-believer, is the square peg in the round hole. There are only two ways to convince people: 1) Logic, reason, and evidence; or 2) emotional manipulation, sleight of hand, and indoctrination. Unfortunately, all you have is #2 to work with. Good luck with that on anyone who can think for themselves.

---

I think this response can be just as problematic as the thing you are attacking. Suggesting that believers are all emotional, irrational , and brain washed is just as dismissive as the believers who can't fathom why non-believers reject what they feel is clear and obvious.

heteroscedasticity said:

---

The Shank Ag said:

---

I've had a hard time with this lately. 2 of my closest friends (groomsmen in my wedding) are at best agnostic. Occasionally a topic in our greater friend group group text comes up with regards to religion and often few responses are antagonistic or even argumentative.

I refuse to push a square peg into a non-receptive round hole. I've tried to witness and never will back down on my faith in these type discussions, but it's getting harder and harder to not try to go fire and brimstone to some of their memes/S-texts.

I'm no type of converter, but how do yall interact with the people you love that don't share the same beliefs with grace

---

The Christian, handwringing over their inability to convince a non-believer, is the square peg in the round hole. There are only two ways to convince people: 1) Logic, reason, and evidence; or 2) emotional manipulation, sleight of hand, and indoctrination. Unfortunately, all you have is #2 to work with. Good luck with that on anyone who can think for themselves.

---

You have just provided the perfect example of OP's point. It's one thing if OP is hammering his friends over the head with the bible despite repeated requests that he stop. But what we see here is a religious topic in a very neutral, even concerned tone, and some atheist/agnostics (you in this case) just can't help but be an ass.