The Catholic belief in the inherent dignity of every human person is one of the most important beliefs we have. It sets up so much of our moral theology.

Martin Q. Blank said:

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I see a big difference between panhandlers in need (elderly, disabled, widowed) and young, able bodied men. I only see the latter and never the former (outside of disabled).

It's not a judgment of "I would be different if I were given their life", but rather, given their present circumstances, what can I do? Giving them anything perpetuates the savior complex and their feeling of inferiority. The ones I've tried getting a job or to improve their situation don't want help.

Given the massive shift in the demographics of panhandlers from truly marginalized people to able bodied addicts, those with mental illness, or those who simply like doing it instead of working, I think we as a society should try to make panhandling as difficult as possible. And bring back asylums.

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the thing I would say to this is you make a big distinction in "able bodied" and mentally ill. I don't think we should. Just because someone "looks" like they can hold down a decent job, doesn't mean they can.

Martin Q. Blank said:

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I see a big difference between panhandlers in need (elderly, disabled, widowed) and young, able bodied men. I only see the latter and never the former (outside of disabled).

It's not a judgment of "I would be different if I were given their life", but rather, given their present circumstances, what can I do? Giving them anything perpetuates the savior complex and their feeling of inferiority. The ones I've tried getting a job or to improve their situation don't want help.

Given the massive shift in the demographics of panhandlers from truly marginalized people to able bodied addicts, those with mental illness, or those who simply like doing it instead of working, I think we as a society should try to make panhandling as difficult as possible. And bring back asylums.

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And Jesus said unto them: When you are approached by a beggar on the street, first determine if the beggar is worthy of aid. Those who can help themselves but choose to cloud their minds with drink and tinctures are unworthy. Those with demons of the mind are children of Satan and should not be given aid. Those who are shiftless and weak of spirit have abandoned God and are to be shunned. The cities that allow begging to flourish have turned their backs to God.

So mentally ill people are screwed?

Tough situations as a Christian, but by giving to the Church for social services, these people can be helped. Especially when the street corner they are at every day working is a block from the Church, that is there to help them. Church also says not to give money to the beggars in the church parking lot.

Does it have to be through your church? Is the bigger obligation to help the person or spread your faith to them?

AGC said:

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Sapper Redux said:

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Does it have to be through your church? Is the bigger obligation to help the person or spread your faith to them?

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I suppose you could also give to a reform synagogue…

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You have issues.

TPS_Report said:

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Martin Q. Blank said:

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I see a big difference between panhandlers in need (elderly, disabled, widowed) and young, able bodied men. I only see the latter and never the former (outside of disabled).

It's not a judgment of "I would be different if I were given their life", but rather, given their present circumstances, what can I do? Giving them anything perpetuates the savior complex and their feeling of inferiority. The ones I've tried getting a job or to improve their situation don't want help.

Given the massive shift in the demographics of panhandlers from truly marginalized people to able bodied addicts, those with mental illness, or those who simply like doing it instead of working, I think we as a society should try to make panhandling as difficult as possible. And bring back asylums.

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And Jesus said unto them: When you are approached by a beggar on the street, first determine if the beggar is worthy of aid. Those who can help themselves but choose to cloud their minds with drink and tinctures are unworthy. Those with demons of the mind are children of Satan and should not be given aid. Those who are shiftless and weak of spirit have abandoned God and are to be shunned. The cities that allow begging to flourish have turned their backs to God.

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Correct, it's understood that you don't give to everyone without reservation. Anytime they are described in detail it is "widows and orphans".

In fact, the one time the "lazy" are referenced, Paul instructs the church to let them starve.

dermdoc said:

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Not to sound harsh, but I would guess a large majority of able bodied street people have been kicked out of shelters or facilities due to addiction or violent behavior. There are always places for these folks to go and there are reasons they are not there.

I would not advise giving to anybody on the street. Give to your local food bank instead.

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I'm sure there are some. A lot of people aren't able to stay at shelters long. Many shelters have rules around hours, length of stay, and belongings that make it really difficult to stay long, particularly for homeless people who are trying to find work. People are very quick to assume the worst about someone who's homeless.

Yeah, like Sapper's really going to share the Gospel with them.

Not picking on you - that image just made me laugh a little.

And Jesus warned us about how we will be judged for how we handled folks like this. Remember Lazarus and the rich man in Hades. The key is to help and not enable.

KingofHazor said:

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Yeah, like Sapper's really going to share the Gospel with them.

Not picking on you - that image just made me laugh a little.

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Sapper has a heart for the poor and marginalized. Who am I to judge?

Many homeless are that way because they choose to be. I don't offer food or money to beggars. Often times, I am working my tail off, in the truck, sweating from wherever Im coming from, and it creates a feeling of disdain when they are standing there with a bucket. Yes, I have plenty....but I worked my ass off for it. There are services available to them to truly get their lives corrected, and those organizations are where I place my money on their behalf.

You don't get to be homeless by making a bad decision. You get that way by making every decision in life a bad one. That will not change by giving them 5 dollars and a hamburger. In fact, it encourages and enables the behavior. That behavior must be corrected, and as stated, there are services for that.

Quote:

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You don't get to be homeless by making a bad decision. You get that way by making every decision in life a bad one. That will not change by giving them 5 dollars and a hamburger. In fact, it encourages and enables the behavior. That behavior must be corrected, and as stated, there are services for that.

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There's a lot of assumptions that all people are rational actors with the exact same opportunities and challenges that you have.

BrazosDog02 said:

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Many homeless are that way because they choose to be. I don't offer food or money to beggars. Often times, I am working my tail off, in the truck, sweating from wherever Im coming from, and it creates a feeling of disdain when they are standing there with a bucket. Yes, I have plenty....but I worked my ass off for it. There are services available to them to truly get their lives corrected, and those organizations are where I place my money on their behalf.

You don't get to be homeless by making a bad decision. You get that way by making every decision in life a bad one. That will not change by giving them 5 dollars and a hamburger. In fact, it encourages and enables the behavior. That behavior must be corrected, and as stated, there are services for that.

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Mark 10:21-22
Jesus, looking at him, loved him and said, 'You lack one thing; go, sell what you own, and give the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; then come, follow me.' When he heard this, he was shocked and went away grieving, for he had many possessions.

It's hard these days. A couple of years ago I was approached by a young woman with a baby at Walmart asking for money for gas to get to a city a few hours away. I told her I didn't have cash, but if she would go to the pumps at the end of the parking lot I would fill her tank. She didn't but continued across the parking lot asking for cash. A few weeks ago I was at Sam's and a man asked for cash. I told him no, but he gave me a paper detailiing what he was doing. It seemed worthy so I circled the parking lot to find him and gave him money. Perhaps I judged wrong on both of them.

spud1910 said:

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It's hard these days. A couple of years ago I was approached by a young woman with a baby at Walmart asking for money for gas to get to a city a few hours away. I told her I didn't have cash, but if she would go to the pumps at the end of the parking lot I would fill her tank. She didn't but continued across the parking lot asking for cash. A few weeks ago I was at Sam's and a man asked for cash. I told him no, but he gave me a paper detailiing what he was doing. It seemed worthy so I circled the parking lot to find him and gave him money. Perhaps I judged wrong on both of them.

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That's not on you. You're doing the best you can. It's not easy.

I agree with the sentiment in the first paragraph, but I think the second one is unfair. There are certainly scammers and the lazy in the bunch but…
The 25th percentile of net worth in the U.S. is 27k. Imagine how fast that goes if something went wrong (layoff, bad medical situation, divorce etc), 30 million households who are one bad event from disaster. And that's before mental illness, alcoholism, drug addiction, vets with reintegration issues, women running from abuse and other things
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I realized long ago that I was lucky. My childhood was far from ideal, but I was always raised to do relatively well in life from a caring educated family. I got to travel, was expected to go to college, learned good habits from those around me both I. Family and in an upper middle class neighborhood, which also meant good schools etc. Those of us that have had that shouldn't judge those who might not have.

JMO.

That may be true, but I don't think it is as frequent as you think. Either way, I don't have time during a light cycle to determine that. I donate to lots local of animal rescues. That's where all my extra charitable money goes. I just don't have the extra funds to spend on dudes on the street and the odds of it being used well enough to change their situation is nearly zero.

I tend to give more to charities around animals and nature too. Not because I don't care about people, but I also have suspicion on motives in some cases, more importantly though as a species we are doing ok, there are 8 billion of us, even if there a struggles for many. There are a whole lot of other creatures and places in far worse shape that can't speak for themselves. Be it abused animals, endangered species, disappearing habitats etc.
And as this is a religious forum, I would really love to believe that God didn't put all of the beauty of nature here for us to simply use it up and let disappear, it needs guardians too. We as humans benefit from it as well.

Not trying to derail a good thread, the original question says a lot about their humanity and their attempt to live up to their beliefs, which is a great thing. As most of us here are blessed (in various ways) we all have that responsibility to give back, whatever form that takes. And this thread inspired though to make a donation today to a charity I care about. So thank you.

Luke 14:12-14
He said also to the one who had invited him, 'When you give a luncheon or a dinner, do not invite your friends or your brothers or your relatives or rich neighbors, in case they may invite you in return, and you would be repaid. But when you give a banquet, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, and the blind. And you will be blessed, because they cannot repay you, for you will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous.'