Certainly a factor and maybe the reason that finally allowed all the other holes in Swiss cheese model to align but there is far more we need to garner from this accident than just what you indicated. Unfortunately the politics of the day is probably the most difficult factor to eliminate here so hopefully the FAA does not ignore the rest of the factors that lead to this tragedy and just kick them down the road like they seemingly have been doing with the air space around DC.

Flying the VFR path in IFR conditions tilts toward the IP for not correcting the problem, right? That fits your "PIC is ultimately responsible for the craft" position, too.

VegasAg86 said:

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Flying the VFR path in IFR conditions tilts toward the IP for not correcting the problem, right? That fits your "PIC is ultimately responsible for the craft" position, too.

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This was VFR conditions. He was just saying that the visual separation in VFR was supposed to be the failsafe for the close vertical boundaries between the two flight paths. The problem is that visual separation in clear skies at night is significantly complicated by the lack of peripheral vision in night vision goggles and the low altitude and ground clutter significantly complicate confirming you have the proper visual separation from a plane that is not directly in front of you.

HoustonAggie11 said:

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jkag89 said:

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so basically, the Warrant officer wouldn't' do anything because the pilot was a left-wing activist who was chummy with Biden? Disgusting.

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I didn't get that impression. The YouTuber said the WO showed little hesitancy in giving direct orders to a the Captain as it pertained to his role as flight instructor. He mentioned she was earlier ordered to execute a missed approach on a landing because he felt her approach was unstabilized.

The bigger issue I see was a habit of helicopter pilots simply claiming "traffic in sight" as a defacto memory item to say in order to gain admission to the airspace. There were a peak of 12 aircraft in the sky that night and based on the simulations I don't think PAT25 ever saw the AA flight. There were certainly times in the simulations that AA was not visible at all in the windows, not counting the limited/reduced view of the NV monocle.

HoustonAggie11 said:

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so basically, the Warrant officer wouldn't' do anything because the pilot was a left-wing activist who was chummy with Biden? Disgusting.

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They mentioned that "request visual separation" was pretty much an automatic part of their check in radio call and may have had some expectation that the helo route provided separation. That complacency plus the WO apparently having his hands full managing the Capt was apparently enough

I'll let our army aviators chime in but I think saying that an O-3 "substantially outranked" the WO instructor is an exaggeration.

Looking back at this thread, amazing how many people vehemently suggested it was an intentional act by the helicopter pilot.

Rapier108 said:

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Looking back at this thread, amazing how many people vehemently suggested it was an intentional act by the helicopter pilot.

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gross negligence at minimum

Adding Mover's commentary. He's a former Navy pilot as I recall and he doesn't take or infer any real unusual tone/commentary between the Capt being evaluated and the WO evaluator/flight instructor.

What I did find interesting is just how dang close they did come to missing. The rotors just clipped the fairing section where the wing structure blends into the the aft fuselage. I'd never seen those photos before. Pick him up at the 17:XX timeframe for those.

HoustonAggie11 said:

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Rapier108 said:

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Looking back at this thread, amazing how many people vehemently suggested it was an intentional act by the helicopter pilot.

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gross negligence at minimum

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And gross incompetence by the helicopter pilot, but that is light years from intentional.

P.H. Dexippus said:

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HoustonAggie11 said:

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so basically, the Warrant officer wouldn't' do anything because the pilot was a left-wing activist who was chummy with Biden? Disgusting.

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I would say that explains the amount of coaching he was doing if all that had already gone down earlier in the check flight. How does somebody with those kinds of reviews get to where she was (other than DEI obviously)? I had always assumed that even though there were pressures on who got promoted, that at the operational end, merit still mattered more. Doesn't appear that was the case here.

txags92 said:

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P.H. Dexippus said:

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HoustonAggie11 said:

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so basically, the Warrant officer wouldn't' do anything because the pilot was a left-wing activist who was chummy with Biden? Disgusting.

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I would say that explains the amount of coaching he was doing if all that had already gone down earlier in the check flight. How does somebody with those kinds of reviews get to where she was (other than DEI obviously)? I had always assumed that even though there were pressures on who got promoted, that at the operational end, merit still mattered more. Doesn't appear that was the case here.

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Possibly not so much DEI, but rather she was a favorite of the Bidens and they made sure she got preferential treatment.

Rapier108 said:

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txags92 said:

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P.H. Dexippus said:

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HoustonAggie11 said:

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so basically, the Warrant officer wouldn't' do anything because the pilot was a left-wing activist who was chummy with Biden? Disgusting.

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I would say that explains the amount of coaching he was doing if all that had already gone down earlier in the check flight. How does somebody with those kinds of reviews get to where she was (other than DEI obviously)? I had always assumed that even though there were pressures on who got promoted, that at the operational end, merit still mattered more. Doesn't appear that was the case here.

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Possibly not so much DEI, but rather she was a favorite of the Bidens and they made sure she got preferential treatment.

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When did she get involved with the Bidens though. Because that "bottom 3 ever" review was 3 years prior to the crash. Seems like that should have played a bigger role than it did in her career trajectory.

So she was the epitome of a DEI pilot.

So it sounds like the dynamics in that cockpit were exactly as we thought it was a year ago.

All the pilots here insisted the WO would absolutely rule over that O-3 - insisted we were idiots for thinking otherwise.

Turns out she'd already flunked the check out and he was trying to hang on for dear life.

GAC06 said:

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I'll let our army aviators chime in but I think saying that an O-3 "substantially outranked" the WO instructor is an exaggeration.

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From a pure rank perspective yes substantially higher rank but, the IP is in charge in the check flight scenario. Rank is recognized but the IP in this case or PIC in a non-evaluation scenario has the ultimate authority relating to the flying of the aircraft. I will say, the IP was not a high time aviator although much more time in the seat than the Captain. If I recall correctly her flight records indicated she was barely meeting minimum flight hours to stay current which to me is one of the primary present and contributing factors to the mishap especially if they were under goggles.

Makes a lot more sense now why you're told by the DPE immediately when you fail some portion of a checkride, with the option to continue or end it right away. I also feel less now bad telling a controller that I can't find that traffic he says is less than a mile away. Maybe everyone else is lying about being able to see it too.

Sounds like this was a ****ty place for a checkride but it also sounds like she was not a great pilot. Maybe spending less time at the White House and more actually flying would have been good.

txags92 said:

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Rapier108 said:

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txags92 said:

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P.H. Dexippus said:

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HoustonAggie11 said:

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so basically, the Warrant officer wouldn't' do anything because the pilot was a left-wing activist who was chummy with Biden? Disgusting.

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I would say that explains the amount of coaching he was doing if all that had already gone down earlier in the check flight. How does somebody with those kinds of reviews get to where she was (other than DEI obviously)? I had always assumed that even though there were pressures on who got promoted, that at the operational end, merit still mattered more. Doesn't appear that was the case here.

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Possibly not so much DEI, but rather she was a favorite of the Bidens and they made sure she got preferential treatment.

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When did she get involved with the Bidens though. Because that "bottom 3 ever" review was 3 years prior to the crash. Seems like that should have played a bigger role than it did in her career trajectory.

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DEI objectives > merit. So it didn't matter how incompetent a pilot she was.

Holes in Swiss cheese lined up and it went bad. If the pilot(s) or controller doing nothing they hit, and they did.
Very bad charting design.

The route should have either been not flown at night and or, there should have been a hold short of
Final denote, waiting for ATC to issue continuation instructions. ATC could have mandated split position at night and probably will or have. Just a very unfortunate event.

I was in DC this past week and I be damn if I didn't see the same operations except in daylight.

agAngeldad said:

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Girls in Swiss cheese lined up and it went bad. If the pilot(s) or controller doing nothing they hit, and they did.
Very bad charting design.

The route should have either been not flown at night and or, there should have been a hold short of
Final denote, waiting for ATC to issue continuation instructions. ATC could have mandated split position at night and probably will or have. Just a very unfortunate event.

I was in DC this past week and I be damn if I didn't see the same operations except in daylight.

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If that is all they were wearing, no wonder it went bad...

txags92 said:

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agAngeldad said:

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Girls in Swiss cheese lined up and it went bad. If the pilot(s) or controller doing nothing they hit, and they did.
Very bad charting design.

The route should have either been not flown at night and or, there should have been a hold short of
Final denote, waiting for ATC to issue continuation instructions. ATC could have mandated split position at night and probably will or have. Just a very unfortunate event.

I was in DC this past week and I be damn if I didn't see the same operations except in daylight.

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If that is all they were wearing, no wonder it went bad...

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Lol. Holes.

agAngeldad said:

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Holes in Swiss cheese lined up and it went bad. If the pilot(s) or controller doing nothing they hit, and they did.
Very bad charting design.

The route should have either been not flown at night and or, there should have been a hold short of
Final denote, waiting for ATC to issue continuation instructions. ATC could have mandated split position at night and probably will or have. Just a very unfortunate event.

I was in DC this past week and I be damn if I didn't see the same operations except in daylight.

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Couple of serious responses...

The flight in question was supposed to be a NV goggle checkout flight, so they had to fly it at night. But they could have chosen a less complex or densely trafficked route.

You didn't see the exact same operations because the helicopter route along the river that was involved (Route 4) has been permanently closed by the FAA. They will still allow helicopters into that airspace, but only for emergency situations such as lifeflights or law enforcement missions. And they are not allowed in that airspace when fixed wing flights are landing or taking off from runway 15/33.

txags92 said:

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agAngeldad said:

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Holes in Swiss cheese lined up and it went bad. If the pilot(s) or controller doing nothing they hit, and they did.
Very bad charting design.

The route should have either been not flown at night and or, there should have been a hold short of
Final denote, waiting for ATC to issue continuation instructions. ATC could have mandated split position at night and probably will or have. Just a very unfortunate event.

I was in DC this past week and I be damn if I didn't see the same operations except in daylight.

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Couple of serious responses...

The flight in question was supposed to be a NV goggle checkout flight, so they had to fly it at night. But they could have chosen a less complex or densely trafficked route.

You didn't see the exact same operations because the helicopter route along the river that was involved (Route 4) has been permanently closed by the FAA. They will still allow helicopters into that airspace, but only for emergency situations such as lifeflights or law enforcement missions. And they are not allowed in that airspace when fixed wing flights are landing or taking off from runway 15/33.

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True. Helicopters were "close" on the route. It looked the same from the AA club. When you say airspace, are you referring to the route or area?

FAA normally overacts by shutting things down instead of solving the problem.

agAngeldad said:

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txags92 said:

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agAngeldad said:

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Holes in Swiss cheese lined up and it went bad. If the pilot(s) or controller doing nothing they hit, and they did.
Very bad charting design.

The route should have either been not flown at night and or, there should have been a hold short of
Final denote, waiting for ATC to issue continuation instructions. ATC could have mandated split position at night and probably will or have. Just a very unfortunate event.

I was in DC this past week and I be damn if I didn't see the same operations except in daylight.

---

Couple of serious responses...

The flight in question was supposed to be a NV goggle checkout flight, so they had to fly it at night. But they could have chosen a less complex or densely trafficked route.

You didn't see the exact same operations because the helicopter route along the river that was involved (Route 4) has been permanently closed by the FAA. They will still allow helicopters into that airspace, but only for emergency situations such as lifeflights or law enforcement missions. And they are not allowed in that airspace when fixed wing flights are landing or taking off from runway 15/33.

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True. Helicopters were "close" on the route. It looked the same from the AA club. When you say airspace, are you referring to the route or area?

FAA normally overacts by shutting things down instead of solving the problem.

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Route 4 described a specific area of airspace along the east side of the Potomac River adjacent to the east side of Reagan National Airport (DCA). Previously, it was a pre-cleared route with specific elevation requirements that helicopter traffic travelling north to south was expected to use when passing by DCA. Now the route has been closed (along with Route 6 that once crossed directly over the top of DCA at higher altitude) and no helicopters are allowed to fly in that area except for specific emergency or high priority clearances such as medivac or law enforcement use.

fwiw. I know it's figure skating, but it's related. Just appeared on the NYT site...

Maxim Naumov to Skate at 2026 Olympics After Parents' Death in D.C. Plane Crash - The New York Times

Quote:

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After Naumov's mother and father were killed in the plane crash in Washington, D.C., last year, he could hardly escape his sadness. Reminders of them were everywhere at the Skating Club of Boston, where they had coached him, their only child...

...Not only did Naumov skate again, but this week, the anniversary of the midair collision, he flies to Milan to compete for the United States at the Winter Olympics, which open Feb. 6.

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NTSB issues its final report for the Jan. 29, 2025 midair collision between a Bombardier CRJ700 and a Sikorsky UH‑60 Black Hawk over the Potomac River near Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport.
Report: https://t.co/BKTZp1gTWs
Investigation page: https://t.co/C01PwrsUyd pic.twitter.com/e7kCgrlg1N

— NTSB Newsroom (@NTSB_Newsroom) February 17, 2026

Quote:

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The NTSB determines that the probable cause of this accident was the Federal Aviation Administration's (FAA) placement of a helicopter route in close proximity to a runway approach path; their failure to regularly review and evaluate helicopter routes and available data, and their failure to act on recommendations to mitigate the risk of a midair collision near Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport (DCA); as well as the air traffic system's overreliance on visual separation in order to promote efficient traffic flow without consideration for the limitations of the see-and-avoid concept. Also causal was the lack of effective pilot-applied visual separation by the helicopter crew, which resulted in a midair collision. Additional causal factors were the tower team's loss of situation awareness and degraded performance due to the high workload of the combined helicopter and local control positions and the absence of a risk assessment process to identify and mitigate real-time operational risk factors, which resulted in misprioritization of duties, inadequate traffic advisories, and the lack of safety alerts to both flight crews. Also causal was the Army's failure to ensure pilots were aware of the effects of error tolerances on barometric altimeters in their helicopters, which resulted in the crew flying above the maximum published helicopter route altitude. Contributing factors include:

• the limitations of the traffic awareness and collision alerting systems on both aircraft, which precluded effective alerting of the impending collision to the flight crews;
• an unsustainable airport arrival rate, increasing traffic volume with a changing fleet mix, and airline scheduling practices at DCA, which regularly strained the DCA air traffic control tower workforce and degraded safety over time;
• the Army's lack of a fully implemented safety management system, which should have identified and addressed hazards associated with altitude exceedances on the Washington, DC, helicopter routes;
• the FAA's failure across multiple organizations to implement previous NTSB recommendations, including Automatic Dependent SurveillanceBroadcast In, and to follow and fully integrate its established safety management system, which should have led to several organizational and operational changes based on previously identified risks that were known to management; and
• the absence of effective data sharing and analysis among the FAA, aircraft operators, and other relevant organizations. We determined that the probable cause of this accident was the FAA's placement of a helicopter route in close proximity to a runway approach path; their failure to regularly review and evaluate helicopter routes and available data, and their failure to act on recommendations to mitigate the risk of a midair collision near Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport; as well as the air traffic system's overreliance on visual separation in order to promote efficient traffic flow without consideration for the limitations of the see-and-avoid concept.

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https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Reports/AIR2602.pdf

There are a massive list of recommendations in the report as well. Far too long to post, but they're all listed in the link below.

https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/Pages/DCA25MA108.aspx

Main sponsor Sen. Ted Cruz R-TX was on the House floor when the bill was defeated. "There was a lot of misunderstanding and misinformation that was put out," Cruz said. https://t.co/tPlsguik2C

— Jamie Dupree (@jamiedupree) February 24, 2026

🚨 BREAKING FOOTAGE: New video captures the mid-air collision between an American Airlines jet and a U.S. Army helicopter over Washington, D.C., last year that left 67 people dead.

pic.twitter.com/QubUAmAXGx

— Breaking911 (@Breaking911) March 30, 2026

Amazing but sad video to watch. Unfortunately, the airplane pilots didn't have enough time to pull up before the crash. There was nothing they could have done.

The AA pilots almost saved it. Heroic quick thinking. May they rip.

But at least the woman pilot didn't get mansplained to.

She sure showed him!

My dad was an Army CWO, and was an instructor pilot. The thing about the Army is that it has both aviator specialists (warrant officers) and general commissioned officers, who can be pilots but also assigned to other assignments. Dad went to Vietnam as a helicopter pilot, then went to artillery school as a captain. After a RIF, he was offered a chance to be a warrant officer, which he took.

As an IP, my dad definitely did not like helping officers who didn't fly regularly get their hours. It was sort of the same dislike he had for civilian aviators who only flew a few times a year.

As an instructor pilot, you have command of the aircraft. But, as in real life, the amount of control the IP has is also determined by personality and experience. My dad did a bit of VIP flying, and there were times when he told generals things they didn't want to hear. Not everyone has that kind of confidence. He also believed he had the experience to know when to do things and when not (for example, canceling trips when the weather was questionable).

If you have an aviator who is rated as an IP but is a bit timid, he might not take control of a situation in time. Likewise, if he lacks experience, he might not know some problems that might come up.

Dad loved being an aviator, but he never forgot it was dangerous work.

Nothing new about that video. Bureaucrats have been sitting on it, holding it back for whatever reasons.