https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/new-york-has-a-new-e-bike-speed-limit-and-no-way-to-enforce-it/ar-AA1K4G5M

The horror!

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"We have nowhere to escape. The stress level of having to look behind, above, next to you at every sidewalk is exhausting," said Ron Wisniski, a Hell's Kitchen resident of 45 years.

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People are speeding around on e-bikes in NYC and it's got to stop! They're killling dogs and innocent bystanders (well, anecdotally).

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"E-bikers are speeding, running red lights, they're all over the sidewalks maiming and killing dogs and people." One of her group members' dog died after it was struck by an e-bike on the sidewalk, she said. In March, a 49-year-old Brooklyn man was reportedly killed by an e-bike while crossing the street.

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So the mayor passed a law. 15 mph max on e-bikes or else you get a ticket.

But there's a problem. E-bikes aren't registered. They don't have license plates. Short of putting cops on corners with radar guns and then chasing after them, there's no way to give e-bike riders tickets.

On top of that, e-bikes have become a very important part of NYC's economy. Over 30,000 Uber Eats & DoorDash delivery persons use them to bring food to hungry residents fast.

Slow those bike down!

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The city has gotten at least one win: Citi Bike operator Lyft said it would reduce the top speed of its pedal-assist bikes in the city-backed network from 18 mph to 15 mph. But that won't affect the bikes used by private riders, which can top out at 28 mph.

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Omigosh 28 mph! That's puppy killing speed for sure.

But buried deep in the article, in the third to last paragraph is this nugget of info:

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The city's regulation doesn't apply to traditional bicycles, which can reach speeds upwards of 40 mph going downhill, no battery required.

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Perhaps they should ban all bikes, then. I mean, nobody should be allowed to go that fast in a city.

They still doing surge car pricing inside Manhattan? Have e-bikes filled in that gap, if so?

Sure sounds like a problem NYC's finest can take care of....by stealing/vandalizing all those things.

txyaloo said:

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What a weird rant.

People are riding these things on sidewalks where bikes don't belong. No one cares how fast they go as long as they're on the roads and following the traffic rules. Unfortunately, like many traditional bike riders (that I'm pretty sure I've seen you rant about), people using these things don't follow the rules.

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Eh? This was not a rant. More like mockery of yet another useless regulation in the big city.

AustinAg2K said:

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E bikes are basically motorcycles now. They should have to follow the same laws.

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18 mph motorcycles?

I like to ride on greenways a bit, and even a bit of mountain biking. On these trails, "pedal assist" type e-bikes are fine. They give you a little boost when going uphill, but they don't go crazy fast.

I'm now seeing more people with more motorcycle-like e-bikes on these same trails, going way too fast. Soon it will be safer to ride my bike on city streets.

techno-ag said:

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AustinAg2K said:

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E bikes are basically motorcycles now. They should have to follow the same laws.

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18 mph motorcycles?

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They go faster than 18 mph.

AustinAg2K said:

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techno-ag said:

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AustinAg2K said:

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E bikes are basically motorcycles now. They should have to follow the same laws.

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18 mph motorcycles?

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They go faster than 18 mph.

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According to the article the rentals in NYC are now electronically restricted from 18 mph to 15 mph.

I don't think a 15-18 mph machine can be effectively regulated the same as a motorcycle. For one thing it's going too slow. For another, see the linked article about the troubles they're having enforcing a speed limit on private bikes. There are no license plates. Even if they are caught by speed cameras, there's no way to tell who to mail a ticket to.

Mandami will take care of it when he becomes mayor. He said he will provide free public transit to everyone once elected.

**** NYC

e-bikes and scooters should be banned from sidewalks as far as I'm concerned. And anyone riding on a street should have to register the bike and display a license plate. The fee could be no more than the cost to produce the plate and administer registration.

Too many bike where I live are running stop signs and traffic lights. It's silly that an 51cc, and up, scooter requires registration but bikes don't.

This will fix the problem…

techno-ag said:

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AustinAg2K said:

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E bikes are basically motorcycles now. They should have to follow the same laws.

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18 mph motorcycles?

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A lot of kids have e-bikes these days. I have no doubt these things can hit 45 as one time I saw one pacing traffic on a main road. See them hit 30+ regularly.

I was in NYC in January and they were all over the place and yes you need to be aware, because they aren't following the laws, but I wasn't in fear of them.

There's legit e-bikes, with defined classes, that already exist. Class I, II, and III - with 20 and 28mph limits depending on class. Bosch systems and its competitors like Yamaha for instance.

What's happening is unregulated, noncompliant **** from China is getting sent over - and these really are just electric motorcycles - that don't conform to existing classes and can barely be called bicycles. Some don't even have pedals, only throttle (I've seen Surrons in bike lanes here in CA, those will get close to 50mph).

This could be as simple as just banning anything other than Class I or II bicycles in the city. What we don't need is every city in every state setting hardware limits independently.

ABATTBQ11 said:

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techno-ag said:

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AustinAg2K said:

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E bikes are basically motorcycles now. They should have to follow the same laws.

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18 mph motorcycles?

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Getting hit by an e-bike at 18mph is the equivalent of being run over by an athlete as they're crossing the finish line of a 4.54 40. You would absolutely get trucked.

E-bikes are 50-60 pounds. Add that to the weight of a median person, around 185, and you're at 235 lbs. That's basically an NFL linebacker hitting you as hard as they can.

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Sure. The point I'm making is an 18 mph e-bike cannot perform like a Harley or a dirtbike. It can't get up to highway speeds, much less typical street speed limits of 45 mph. There's no way it should be / can be regulated like a motorcycle. The comparison is way off.

Steal something? No problem.
Ride your bike too fast? REEEEEEEEEEEEEE

AustinAg2K said:

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techno-ag said:

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AustinAg2K said:

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E bikes are basically motorcycles now. They should have to follow the same laws.

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18 mph motorcycles?

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They go faster than 18 mph.

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Some electric "scooters" can go 45. E-bikes can get pretty high, higher than 45

I double dog dare you to post this on the outdoor board.


Imo bicyclists on the road are a danger to themselves and others.

techno-ag said:

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ABATTBQ11 said:

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techno-ag said:

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AustinAg2K said:

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E bikes are basically motorcycles now. They should have to follow the same laws.

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18 mph motorcycles?

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Getting hit by an e-bike at 18mph is the equivalent of being run over by an athlete as they're crossing the finish line of a 4.54 40. You would absolutely get trucked.

E-bikes are 50-60 pounds. Add that to the weight of a median person, around 185, and you're at 235 lbs. That's basically an NFL linebacker hitting you as hard as they can.

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Sure. The point I'm making is an 18 mph e-bike cannot perform like a Harley or a dirtbike. It can't get up to highway speeds, much less typical street speed limits of 45 mph. There's no way it should be / can be regulated like a motorcycle. The comparison is way off.

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As someone else said, for a lot of those it's a software/controller limitation that is voluntarily imposed by the manufacturer. Others certainly can go street speeds of 30-45 mph.

And just because they aren't all going 45 mph all the time doesn't mean they don't need to be or can't be regulated in the same way as motorcycles if they're going to be operated in public places with foot or vehicular traffic. They're just as, if not more, dangerous because they can and do operate on sidewalks with pedestrians. Harleys and dirtbikes may be going much faster, but they also have to stay on the street.

And downplaying them because they don't go as fast as gas powered motorcycles or dirtbikes misses the forest for the trees. They're still two wheeled, powered vehicles than go significantly faster than pedestrians. IMO, anything faster than walking speed and not a person needs to be relegated to a bike or vehicle lane.

you manage the speeding by forcing the OEM's of the e-bikes to put some form of governor speed control limiting device on the e-bikes for 15mph or whatever the legal limit will be...

ABATTBQ11 said:

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techno-ag said:

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ABATTBQ11 said:

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techno-ag said:

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AustinAg2K said:

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E bikes are basically motorcycles now. They should have to follow the same laws.

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18 mph motorcycles?

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Getting hit by an e-bike at 18mph is the equivalent of being run over by an athlete as they're crossing the finish line of a 4.54 40. You would absolutely get trucked.

E-bikes are 50-60 pounds. Add that to the weight of a median person, around 185, and you're at 235 lbs. That's basically an NFL linebacker hitting you as hard as they can.

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Sure. The point I'm making is an 18 mph e-bike cannot perform like a Harley or a dirtbike. It can't get up to highway speeds, much less typical street speed limits of 45 mph. There's no way it should be / can be regulated like a motorcycle. The comparison is way off.

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As someone else said, for a lot of those it's a software/controller limitation that is voluntarily imposed by the manufacturer. Others certainly can go street speeds of 30-45 mph.

And just because they aren't all going 45 mph all the time doesn't mean they don't need to be or can't be regulated in the same way as motorcycles if they're going to be operated in public places with foot or vehicular traffic. They're just as, if not more, dangerous because they can and do operate on sidewalks with pedestrians. Harleys and dirtbikes may be going much faster, but they also have to stay on the street.

And downplaying them because they don't go as fast as gas powered motorcycles or dirtbikes misses the forest for the trees. They're still two wheeled, powered vehicles than go significantly faster than pedestrians. IMO, anything faster than walking speed and not a person needs to be relegated to a bike or vehicle lane.

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I think we're talking about two different things. Bikes with electric assist are typically just bicycles with some added oomph. You guys are talking electric motorcycles and such. To go hog wild on all kinds of regulations for the former is the pointless rabbit-chasing NYC is doing right now. In many ways your points illustrate the difficulties conflating the two types of e-bikes. You can't slap a license plate on a 18 mph bike and put cops out there with radar to make sure they stay under an arbitrary speed limit. You can try but it would be a pointless waste of resources.

The comparison of some electric mobility devices to motorcycles is entirely valid. A 125cc gasoline powered Honda Grom or Honda Monkey has 8 or 9 HP and can acheive 45-50mph, and it requires plates. Most models of electric Surron "bikes" or similar will do this speed or significantly more (sometimes highway speeds), and have 8-16HP depending on model. They are legitimately equivalent to small motorcycles although you'll see them in bike lanes or sidewalks.

True e-bikes from Bosch or Yamaha have 0.3 - 1.0HP, and only get up to 28mph max (20mph typical unless you spend more on a class 3). I'm not sure we need any regulation on those other than maybe municipalities specifying which class is legal to operate in bike lanes etc.

Thanks for backing me up, rookie.
;-)

The broomstick may be the solution.

techno-ag said:

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Perhaps they should ban all bikes, then. I mean, nobody should be allowed to go that fast in a city.

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Perhaps they should just ban NYC

techno-ag said:

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ABATTBQ11 said:

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techno-ag said:

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ABATTBQ11 said:

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techno-ag said:

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AustinAg2K said:

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E bikes are basically motorcycles now. They should have to follow the same laws.

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18 mph motorcycles?

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Getting hit by an e-bike at 18mph is the equivalent of being run over by an athlete as they're crossing the finish line of a 4.54 40. You would absolutely get trucked.

E-bikes are 50-60 pounds. Add that to the weight of a median person, around 185, and you're at 235 lbs. That's basically an NFL linebacker hitting you as hard as they can.

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Sure. The point I'm making is an 18 mph e-bike cannot perform like a Harley or a dirtbike. It can't get up to highway speeds, much less typical street speed limits of 45 mph. There's no way it should be / can be regulated like a motorcycle. The comparison is way off.

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As someone else said, for a lot of those it's a software/controller limitation that is voluntarily imposed by the manufacturer. Others certainly can go street speeds of 30-45 mph.

And just because they aren't all going 45 mph all the time doesn't mean they don't need to be or can't be regulated in the same way as motorcycles if they're going to be operated in public places with foot or vehicular traffic. They're just as, if not more, dangerous because they can and do operate on sidewalks with pedestrians. Harleys and dirtbikes may be going much faster, but they also have to stay on the street.

And downplaying them because they don't go as fast as gas powered motorcycles or dirtbikes misses the forest for the trees. They're still two wheeled, powered vehicles than go significantly faster than pedestrians. IMO, anything faster than walking speed and not a person needs to be relegated to a bike or vehicle lane.

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I think we're talking about two different things. Bikes with electric assist are typically just bicycles with some added oomph. You guys are talking electric motorcycles and such. To go hog wild on all kinds of regulations for the former is the pointless rabbit-chasing NYC is doing right now. In many ways your points illustrate the difficulties conflating the two types of e-bikes. You can't slap a license plate on a 18 mph bike and put cops out there with radar to make sure they stay under an arbitrary speed limit. You can try but it would be a pointless waste of resources.

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No, we're not. You're just behind the times. This electric assist bike with pedals has enough added oomph to hit 40+ mph.



And you certainly can slap a plate on a bike and give cops the authority to stop them if they're riding recklessly or faster than foot traffic on a sidewalk. Treat them the same as if they were driving a vehicle if they run into someone.

E bikes wouldn't exist if not for the climate change hoax. I wonder how many of the idiots that live in that hell hole worshipped at the Green Altar?

AustinAg2K said:

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E bikes are basically motorcycles now. They should have to follow the same laws.

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I don't get how they ever HAVEN'T been considered motorcycles. The entire premise is to add electric MOTORS to bicycles. Thus, very obviously, a motor-cycle.

So what if you can pedal, too and there's a variety of assist levels. Shouldn't be any different.

Get Off My Lawn said:

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AustinAg2K said:

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E bikes are basically motorcycles now. They should have to follow the same laws.

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I don't get how they ever HAVEN'T been considered motorcycles. The entire premise is to add electric MOTORS to bicycles. Thus, very obviously, a motor-cycle.

So what if you can pedal, too and there's a variety of assist levels. Shouldn't be any different.

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Just call all things with two wheels motorcycles. Regulate them all the same, Schwinns to Harleys.