Sweden Is a Capitalist Haven

3,266 Views | 29 Replies | Last: 19 hrs ago by Got a Natty!
YouBet
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This article is fascinating and there is a lot in it. It could serve as one counter example to the Europe is Screwed thread.

https://www.wsj.com/world/europe/the-worlds-most-surprising-capitalist-makeover-is-under-way-in-sweden-a7830619

In the past, they were the socialist state that almost everyone here still thinks they are with the obvious, terrible results that were then reversed when they largely abandoned leftism in the 90s:
Quote:

But starting in the 1960s, the center-left Social Democratic Partywhich dominated the country's postwar politicssharply raised taxes and spending, ultimately taking government spending as high as 70% of GDP by the 1990s.

The changes triggered a long period of weak growth, stagnant after-tax incomes and ballooning budget deficits and debt that culminated in a banking crisis in the early '90s.

Under pressure from investors, the government instituted sweeping economic reforms over the next two decades. They included cuts to unemployment benefits and housing subsidies and the privatization of public services, as well as tax cuts and a reform of the pension system to make it more affordable. Strict limits were imposed on government debt. (Sweden's debt to GDP is a meager 36%, compared with 129% for the U.S.) In the mid-2000s, the government eliminated wealth and inheritance taxes.

Quote:

Sweden's economy is expected to grow by around 2% a year through 2030, roughly the same pace as the U.S. and double the growth rates of France and Germany, according to an April forecast by the International Monetary Fund.

While many European countries are raising taxes, Svantesson has cut them three years in a row. Sweden's top income-tax rate has fallen close to 50% from nearly 90% in the 1980s.

Considering the overall tax burden, "it's more attractive here…than the U.S.," said Conni Jonsson, the billionaire founder of EQT, a Stockholm-based private-equity firm.

A few examples of how they have embraced capitalism:

Quote:

Its total public social spending billwhich includes healthcare, education and all welfare paymentshas fallen to 24% of gross domestic product, similar to the U.S. and well below the over 30% for nations like France and Italy.

Today, nearly half of primary healthcare clinics are privately owned, many by private-equity firms.

One in three public high schools is privately run, up from 20% in 2011. School operators are listed on the stock exchange.

And the results:

Quote:

The country saw more than 500 initial public offerings over the 10 years through 2024, more than Germany, France, the Netherlands and Spain combined, according to a landmark 2024 report on Europe's economy by former European Central Bank President Mario Draghi.

It has now moved ahead of the U.S. in the number of billionaires per capita, thanks to a thriving tech startup scene and videogame industry that has produced hits like Minecraft and Candy Crush.

The really interesting stuff is in healthcare where they have embraced technology and efficiency. Now, they still have an inherent culture advantage here over the US, so you have to discount these spending figures when comparing to us. It's just not apples to apples:

Quote:

Private competition has had broad benefits across the industry. At a time when aging populations are costing governments around the industrialized world more money every year, healthcare spending per capita in Sweden grew around 1% a year on average between 2014 and 2024 after adjusting for inflationroughly half the pace in the U.K. and a third of the pace in the U.S., according to the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development.

But, in doing relative comparisons within their own country the hospital in this article that has embraced more capitalist methods sees the following results against its in-country peers with a notable quote from the leftist who leads the local government:

Quote:

"We do more for less," says CEO Gustaf Storm. He estimates it costs 15%-20% more at public Swedish hospitals to treat conditions such as appendicitis than at his hospital.

Aida Hadiali, a center-left politician who leads the Stockholm region government that is responsible for healthcare, is a fan. She says St. Göran's is more efficient at producing good outcomes for patients, with lower reimbursements, than the public system.


They do have their own "disproportionately impacted" but if they kicked those people out then this story pretty much is a complete happy ending:

Quote:

The transformation also has losers: renters outside big cities, where there are fewer new jobs and shrinking public services, and urban, low-income migrant communities that have historically been more dependent on the state.

Much more in the article. Highly recommend.
Rapier108
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One of the few countries that didn't give into the WuFlu hysteria and go into full lockdowns.

Now if the can just solve their rape and crime problem that is courtesy of their Muslim invaders.
"If you will not fight for right when you can easily win without blood shed; if you will not fight when your victory is sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves." - Sir Winston Churchill
techno-ag
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If you missed this one last month, a version of it is out in podcast form today.

https://www.wsj.com/podcasts/the-journal/why-sweden-embraced-capitalism/c7c38729-f470-475a-a306-9c3bf7f8a020
The left cannot kill the Spirit of Charlie Kirk.
oldord
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They still have thier share of wedge immigrants. Hopefully the swedes are smart enough to understand that racism is a social construct.
Sid Farkas
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Someone please forward this news to mamdani and AOC and get their reaction
AggieVictor10
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inb4 the billionaires who don't pack up and leave to Argentina pack up and leave to Sweden
“…What?”

- Joe Biden
LMCane
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I'm old enough to remember when every communist in the USA pointed to Sweden to say

"see! communism and socialism work just great!!"

ts5641
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Sweden was always what the leftists pointed to as utopia. But they've bucked the system a few times recently. Lefties are going to have to start using another successful country like....um...well... never mind.
YouBet
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ts5641 said:

Sweden was always what the leftists pointed to as utopia. But they've bucked the system a few times recently. Lefties are going to have to start using another successful country like....um...well... never mind.


Not too long ago the Democrats loved to use the Scandinavian model of socialized healthcare as the panacea for US healthcare while completely ignoring the fact that back then the region was even more mono-ethnic and mono-culture white than it is now (and small).

Despite that, they still went more capitalist and it works much better now.
doubledog
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Sweden spends about 2% of their GDP on defense. It is up from 1% in 2018.
techno-ag
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doubledog said:

Sweden spends about 2% of their GDP on defense. It is up from 1% in 2018.

The invasion of Ukraine opened the eyes of a lot of Europeans.
The left cannot kill the Spirit of Charlie Kirk.
Martels Hammer
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I have spent a lot of time in Sweden. I speak Swedish by accident because of it.

I think what we might be seeing is the Swedish boomer generation aging out and their young people finally making their ideas felt.

Old Swedes LOVE socialism in a way I can't really describe. Young Swedes while not as conservative as I would like them to be on a number of topics are very different.


Sid Farkas
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techno-ag said:

doubledog said:

Sweden spends about 2% of their GDP on defense. It is up from 1% in 2018.


The invasion of Ukraine opened the eyes of a lot of Europeans.

...and clear signals from Trump that the security gravy train's over...
YouBet
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Martels Hammer said:

I have spent a lot of time in Sweden. I speak Swedish by accident because of it.

I think what we might be seeing is the Swedish boomer generation aging out and their young people finally making their ideas felt.

Old Swedes LOVE socialism in a way I can't really describe. Young Swedes while not as conservative as I would like them to be on a number of topics are very different.





Comports with the article. Sounds like the younger folks just got fed up with the stagnation.
Martels Hammer
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YouBet said:

Martels Hammer said:

I have spent a lot of time in Sweden. I speak Swedish by accident because of it.

I think what we might be seeing is the Swedish boomer generation aging out and their young people finally making their ideas felt.

Old Swedes LOVE socialism in a way I can't really describe. Young Swedes while not as conservative as I would like them to be on a number of topics are very different.





Comports with the article. Sounds like the younger folks just got fed up with the stagnation.


Kind of related story to all of this.

I was at a business meeting in Scotland but a room full of Swedes. There had just been a islamic terror attack in Stockholm and I turned to ask the older man next to me what he thought about it. His response was don't always believe what you read. I was stunned. I asked something to the effect "you don't believe this actually happened?". His response was to just mutter something unintelligible.

A smart guy but like the other old swedes they can't see things that don't align with their world view.

And not just the Swedes but the Scandinavian peoples have a tendency to not like being seen as having independent thought. They have very pointless meetings in business to try and show that everyone already agrees on something so the new decision, even if it goes in a new direction, was already what everyone already thought anyway.

Very frustrating.
YouBet
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Martels Hammer said:

YouBet said:

Martels Hammer said:

I have spent a lot of time in Sweden. I speak Swedish by accident because of it.

I think what we might be seeing is the Swedish boomer generation aging out and their young people finally making their ideas felt.

Old Swedes LOVE socialism in a way I can't really describe. Young Swedes while not as conservative as I would like them to be on a number of topics are very different.





Comports with the article. Sounds like the younger folks just got fed up with the stagnation.


Kind of related story to all of this.

I was at a business meeting in Scotland but a room full of Swedes. There had just been a islamic terror attack in Stockholm and I turned to ask the older man next to me what he thought about it. His response was don't always believe what you read. I was stunned. I asked something to the effect "you don't believe this actually happened?". His response was to just mutter something unintelligible.

A smart guy but like the other old swedes they can't see things that don't align with their world view.

And not just the Swedes but the Scandinavian peoples have a tendency to not like being seen as having independent thought. They have very pointless meetings in business to try and show that everyone already agrees on something so the new decision, even if it goes in a new direction, was already what everyone already thought anyway.

Very frustrating.


I can actually validate this. We spent a year trying to establish a partnership with a Norwegian company that ultimately went no where (not actually their fault), and I witnessed this first hand.
Windy City Ag
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Quote:

I have spent a lot of time in Sweden. I speak Swedish by accident because of it.

I think what we might be seeing is the Swedish boomer generation aging out and their young people finally making their ideas felt.

Old Swedes LOVE socialism in a way I can't really describe. Young Swedes while not as conservative as I would like them to be on a number of topics are very different.

I spent a year there during Grad School and most of this was just kicking off then. I later helped manage my company's joint ventures in the Scandinavian region out of the Stockholm office.

Their boomers actually kicked this all off in the early 2000s. Most major employers had left or were struggling. Sweden had gone from the Swedish miracle to the sick man of Europe in three decades at that point.

Corporate income tax rates are about equivalent vs the US.

VAT runs nearly 20%

Personal income tax rates are much much higher. Cap gains is flat 30% there and the highest income bracket kicks in at folks earning around 65K USD per year and is over 50%

Property tax is 0.75%.

There are still social conventions in place that would make Americans gasp. Trade Unions are totally empowered and touch every aspect of society. Government mandates cover all sorts of things ranging from guaranteed vacation to truly problematic from a managerial perspective parental leave. Layoffs are really hard as you have to have union and government sign off in a lot of situations.

I love that they have shown such fiscal discipline but this article paints a rosy picture of an economy that is not as bad but still not great.


Martels Hammer
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Windy City Ag said:

Quote:

I have spent a lot of time in Sweden. I speak Swedish by accident because of it.

I think what we might be seeing is the Swedish boomer generation aging out and their young people finally making their ideas felt.

Old Swedes LOVE socialism in a way I can't really describe. Young Swedes while not as conservative as I would like them to be on a number of topics are very different.

I spent a year there during Grad School and most of this was just kicking off then. I later helped manage my company's joint ventures in the Scandinavian region out of the Stockholm office.

Their boomers actually kicked this all off in the early 2000s. Most major employers had left or were struggling. Sweden had gone from the Swedish miracle to the sick man of Europe in three decades at that point.

Corporate income tax rates are about equivalent vs the US.

VAT runs nearly 20%

Personal income tax rates are much much higher. Cap gains is flat 30% there and the highest income bracket kicks in at folks earning around 65K USD per year and is over 50%

Property tax is 0.75%.

There are still social conventions in place that would make Americans gasp. Trade Unions are totally empowered and touch every aspect of society. Government mandates cover all sorts of things ranging from guaranteed vacation to truly problematic from a managerial perspective parental leave. Layoffs are really hard as you have to have union and government sign off in a lot of situations.

I love that they have shown such fiscal discipline but this article paints a rosy picture of an economy that is not as bad but still not great.




What industry if you don't me asking
Windy City Ag
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AG
FinTech and financial services at that time. I have moved on since.
Martels Hammer
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Windy City Ag said:

FinTech and financial services at that time. I have moved on since.


Your comment about companies leaving is kind of line with what I saw for a time. But in heavier mfg industry.

But then instead of leaving the Chinese came and gobbled up tons of good companies.

Another side note.

The Wallenburgs

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wallenberg_family


These folks seem to be behind just about everything that goes on in Sweden and it is difficult for me to decide if they are good or bad for the country. The family history that i have read is highly debated. So in WWII they might have been the saviors of a large number of Jewish people. Or they might have been profiteers that charged Jews high rates to escape. Depends on who you ask. One of them was recognized by at least one jewish group as having been very helpful but then other Jewish families will say they otherwise.
Windy City Ag
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Quote:

These folks seem to be behind just about everything that goes on in Sweden and it is difficult for me to decide if they are good or bad for the country. The family history that i have read is highly debated. So in WWII they might have been the saviors of a large number of Jewish people. Or they might have been profiteers that charged Jews high rates to escape. Depends on who you ask. One of them was recognized by at least one jewish group as having been very helpful but then other Jewish families will say they otherwise.


Yeah, Electrolux and Volvo were major employers that were struggling mightily at the time.

I have read a ton about the Wallenberg family as well. Some folks estimated that the Wallenberg entities employed 40% of the Swedish Workforce at its peak.

I quickly assumed along with everyone else that they were the inspiration for the inbred, evil Vanger family in the Steig Larrson books.

Funnily enough, the current patriarch Peter went to University of Denver.

The whole country coddled the Nazi regime through that period to avoid the line of fire. Norway was such a different extreme with their ongoing resistance and the Nazis having to militarily subjugate the country and put their proxy Quisling in as the manager.
Martels Hammer
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They have to be the inspiration for that author.

Nobody else comes close.
BigRobSA
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Windy City Ag said:



I have read a ton about the Wallenberg family as well.


Mark Wallenburg is a decent actor, accent notwithstanding, always sounding Boston-y.
YouBet
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BigRobSA said:

Windy City Ag said:



I have read a ton about the Wallenberg family as well.


Mark Wallenburg is a decent actor, accent notwithstanding, always sounding Boston-y.

techno-ag
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YouBet said:

BigRobSA said:

Windy City Ag said:



I have read a ton about the Wallenberg family as well.


Mark Wallenburg is a decent actor, accent notwithstanding, always sounding Boston-y.




Loved him in that cooking show.

The left cannot kill the Spirit of Charlie Kirk.
Windy City Ag
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Quote:

They have to be the inspiration for that author.

Nobody else comes close.


I can't explain how far they have taken the concept of egalitarianism there. I went to the customer service desk for the Stockholm Subway one day due to issue with my electronic pass and behind a grimy window in a cramped and somewhat dark room was one of the most drop dead gorgeous blond 20 something women I had ever seen.

Some of the traffic cops there were dead ringers for Tiger Woods ex-wife.

I wanted to take them aside and explain how in America women this beautiful do not have to work grimy dead end jobs in the name of some social ideal. I bit my tongue though.
Martels Hammer
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Windy City Ag said:

Quote:

They have to be the inspiration for that author.

Nobody else comes close.


I can't explain how far they have taken the concept of egalitarianism there. I went to the customer service desk for the Stockholm Subway one day due to issue with my electronic pass and behind a grimy window in a cramped and somewhat dark room was one of the most drop dead gorgeous blond 20 something women I had ever seen.

Some of the traffic cops there were dead ringers for Tiger Woods ex-wife.

I wanted to take them aside and explain how in America women this beautiful do not have to work grimy dead end jobs in the name of some social ideal. I bit my tongue though.


Spot on. Danish women are in my opinion even a tad better in this department

But I also noticed that the Swedish and Danish women after about 30 are as bitter as a woman can be towards anything and everything. And nihilism is a national sport over there.

infinity ag
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Muslims have taken over Sweden. It will be called Swedenistan in some years.
YouBet
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Windy City Ag said:

Quote:

They have to be the inspiration for that author.

Nobody else comes close.


I can't explain how far they have taken the concept of egalitarianism there. I went to the customer service desk for the Stockholm Subway one day due to issue with my electronic pass and behind a grimy window in a cramped and somewhat dark room was one of the most drop dead gorgeous blond 20 something women I had ever seen.

Some of the traffic cops there were dead ringers for Tiger Woods ex-wife.

I wanted to take them aside and explain how in America women this beautiful do not have to work grimy dead end jobs in the name of some social ideal. I bit my tongue though.


In other news, I'm planning a vacation to Sweden while my wife goes on a girls trip to the spa.
Got a Natty!
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AG
So you say we still have a chance.
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