They should've just bought two bagels.
Duh.
Duh.
I don’t get enough credit for the things I manage not to say.
LOL at Seattle, re: more businesses gone
9,498 Views |
100 Replies |
Last: 16 days ago by VegasAg86
hockeyag said:
The was a billboard in Seattle around 1974 ,when Boeing was laying off a lot of employees , that said:"Would the last person leaving Seattle please turn off the lights".
Maybe it's time for a return.
Put that quote to the right of the Mayor's portrait!
agdoc2001 said:
Social media posts are a riot. People angry that employees were not given severance packages. Severance packages. For serving bagels.
This goes back to fast food was never meant to be a career. This would have been mostly high school kids when I was growing up.
what's funny are the news articles bemoaning the lack of severance pay for the employees
lol
not in the real world
lol
not in the real world
Most reddit folks blaming the owner for ruining the bagel shop .
Math is hard.
Economics, harder still.
Math is hard.
Economics, harder still.
YouBet said:agdoc2001 said:
Social media posts are a riot. People angry that employees were not given severance packages. Severance packages. For serving bagels.
This goes back to fast food was never meant to be a career. This would have been mostly high school kids when I was growing up.
Good grief. Severance pkg for serving bread!
They filed chapter 7, I am going on a limb and guess they were broke to start with.
deddog said:
Most reddit folks blaming the owner for ruining the bagel shop .
Math is hard.
Economics, harder still.
then one of those employees should easily spin up the shops again LOL.
Lefties are dumber than worms.
EFR said:
They filed chapter 7, I am going on a limb and guess they were broke to start with.
LOL, broke for 25 years?! Neat theory!
/eye roll
Heineken-Ashi said:Ag87H2O said:
Trying to explain simple profit/loss math to a leftist is a fool's errand. It's like trying to explain calculus to a three year old.
The state will step in and bake bread for everyone to have for free.
Nevermind that you will eat once a week, on a ration of 1/10th a bagel, and will stand in line for 12 hours just to get your ration.
Only if you pass the means qualification.
LOL OLD
EFR said:
They filed chapter 7, I am going on a limb and guess they were broke to start with.
Bagels are not a very high margin business.
So when your expenses go up, and your city is run by anti-business commies, its hard to overcome.
deddog said:
Most reddit folks blaming the owner for ruining the bagel shop .
Math is hard.
Economics, harder still.
Leftists realizing they can't make their wet dreams into reality: the hardest
Not for 25 years, after 25 years. Have you never seen a long term business go under? I am sure the Seattle stuff didn't help but my guess is they were barely hanging on or underwater to start with. It is always easier to blame the gubmint than admit your business failed.
Aren't bagels Jewish? The lefties are probably glad to be rid of them.
EFR said:
Not for 25 years, after 25 years. Have you never seen a long term business go under? I am sure the Seattle stuff didn't help but my guess is they were barely hanging on or underwater to start with. It is always easier to blame the gubmint than admit your business failed.
And why were they barely hanging on? Think about it.
EFR said:
Not for 25 years, after 25 years. Have you never seen a long term business go under? I am sure the Seattle stuff didn't help but my guess is they were barely hanging on or underwater to start with. It is always easier to blame the gubmint than admit your business failed.
1. Government raised the cost of the business.
2. Business before raising cost was in business for 25 years
3. Business shut down after raising cost
So, you think the business just forgot how to run itself after 25 years.
Some things are just not that yard.
LOL OLD
EFR said:
Not for 25 years, after 25 years. Have you never seen a long term business go under? I am sure the Seattle stuff didn't help but my guess is they were barely hanging on or underwater to start with. It is always easier to blame the gubmint than admit your business failed.
Aah yes, this tired argument.
"The business failed", "it was never profitable" , "they should never have been in business"
Govenrment policies, passed by stupid voters, pummel businesses and artificially raise their expenses
You think local government policies, and minimum wage requirements passed by clueless voters don't affect low margin businesses? You don't think a freaking $21/hour minimum wage makes it hard to run a bagel shop?
The owners mistake was trying to run an honest business in a commie city and state.
I asked Duckduckgo for the Seattle minimum wage over the past decade...
Today is over $21 per hour.
In the past decade their cost of labor has more than doubled. I'm assuming that as minimum wage increased many if not all of their employees had to get raises in order to keep managers and other higher compensated workers from leaving for easier roles.
Just assume rent, utilities, insurance, and raw materials all remained constant over the past decade. Assume they didn't take it in the shorts for at least a quarter during 2020.
How many businesses can absorb, what is already likely their single largest expense, more than doubling over 10 years?
Sure you can absorb some early on, but chopping away year after year, you ultimately MUST raise your prices. I didn't know their price point in 2016, and I don't know what their prices are today.
What I do know... Those assumptions I said a few sentences ago, I'd wager my paycheck those aren't valid. Rent, utilities, insurance, and raw materials have all most likely risen over the past decade. My guess is that every time they had to bump prices or shrink service their sales dropped. But the number of employees required to just turn on the lights remained more or less constant.
Quote:
In Seattle, the minimum wage has increased significantly over the past decade, starting from $9.47 in 2016 to $19.97 per hour in 2024.
Today is over $21 per hour.
In the past decade their cost of labor has more than doubled. I'm assuming that as minimum wage increased many if not all of their employees had to get raises in order to keep managers and other higher compensated workers from leaving for easier roles.
Just assume rent, utilities, insurance, and raw materials all remained constant over the past decade. Assume they didn't take it in the shorts for at least a quarter during 2020.
How many businesses can absorb, what is already likely their single largest expense, more than doubling over 10 years?
Sure you can absorb some early on, but chopping away year after year, you ultimately MUST raise your prices. I didn't know their price point in 2016, and I don't know what their prices are today.
What I do know... Those assumptions I said a few sentences ago, I'd wager my paycheck those aren't valid. Rent, utilities, insurance, and raw materials have all most likely risen over the past decade. My guess is that every time they had to bump prices or shrink service their sales dropped. But the number of employees required to just turn on the lights remained more or less constant.
I don't agree with their local minimum wage, but it is $4 higher than the state. If that forced them into chapter 7 they were hanging by a thread to start with. I stand by this (as a business owner), if you can't afford to pay above minimum wage you really can't afford to be in business.
hockeyag said:
The was a billboard in Seattle around 1974 ,when Boeing was laying off a lot of employees , that said:"Would the last person leaving Seattle please turn off the lights".
Maybe it's time for a return.
Did you see the billboard yourself or did you hear about it?
This is dated 1971.
EFR said:
I don't agree with their local minimum wage, but it is $4 higher than the state. If that forced them into chapter 7 they were hanging by a thread to start with. I stand by this (as a business owner), if you can't afford to pay above minimum wage you really can't afford to be in business.
It all adds up in the long run. And there eventually becomes the straw that broke the camels back.
If the business could indeed be profitable, they would have closed down 3-4 locations and kept 1-2.
But they aren't - they are closing them all.
HunterAggie
The Elko Era is in Action
The Elko Era is in Action
HunterAggie said:EFR said:
I don't agree with their local minimum wage, but it is $4 higher than the state. If that forced them into chapter 7 they were hanging by a thread to start with. I stand by this (as a business owner), if you can't afford to pay above minimum wage you really can't afford to be in business.
It all adds up in the long run. And there eventually becomes the straw that broke the camels back.
If the business could indeed be profitable, they would have closed down 3-4 locations and kept 1-2.
But they aren't - they are closing them all.
Photo in the OP looks like they were baking their own bagels, and it looks like it could be a central kitchen. If that's the case their 4-5 shop number might have been their bakery output sweet spot. Their economics might totally collapse at fewer locations.
They were in business for a long time. They aren't now. Very elitist of you.
A good friend of mine retired to the Seattle area and it did not take him too long to realize he retired to the wrong part of the country. They were going to get the majority of his inheritance to his kids so he up and moved lock stock and barrel to the midwest.
EFR said:
I don't agree with their local minimum wage, but it is $4 higher than the state. If that forced them into chapter 7 they were hanging by a thread to start with. I stand by this (as a business owner), if you can't afford to pay above minimum wage you really can't afford to be in business.
With every full time employee, for every $1 in wages that translates to $2k per year. So that $4 difference is an $8k increase in expenses per employee. How many full timers would you guess per location? Let's just say 10. That's $80k per year, not even including all other employee-related expenses that are impacted by payroll, you have to magically come up with. Taking an 80k hit is NOT hanging on by a thread for a business. Plus, thats 80k in expenses, which means you have to bring in well over 80k in income unless you have a flat increase in sales to compensate, which is unreasonable. That is enough to go from stable to destroyed overnight. But hey, go ahead an judge something you don't understand, and be giddy about businesses failing while pointing ALL blame onto the business owners. As business were told in SF before min wage went from $10 to $15, people were pretty ok with lots of places literally being run out of business, because if they can't afford to pay a living wage (whatever that means) then they have no right to be in business. That's what they said. No RIGHT. They were told they deserve to lose everything. I'm not even exaggerating, as I was running a business in SF at the time, and it was unbelievable to witness just how anti-small business that city truly was. And how much envy and bitterness was spouted, and much of it was even by techies making over 200k per year. I guess google and apple are allowed to stay in business, since they paid a living wage...
I remember when they first implemented the rate hike in SF, there was a local bookstore I really loved. The owner flat out said that you can't increase book prices. It's literally written on the cover, and most people shop on amazon anyway, so there's no wiggle room to increase prices to compensate for the massive hike in wages he had to come up with. People like myself loved going there because it was a great place. So he instantly closed shop, since he had no way to stay in business due to the government dictating if he survives or not, as he had no ability to significantly increase income to pay for the huge mandated increases that skyrocketed his cost of doing business. Of course, that guy also publicly said that even though he was run out of town because of it, that he supported people being paid a living wage. Maybe that was only said in public so he wasn't literally run out of the city (which they do there), so he had to play nice with the locals to appease their required views. Honestly I would not have hid my vitriol for what they had done to ruin my entire livelihood just to make a bunch of hipster idiots not hate me. F em all. Such hateful and nasty people don't deserve to have a voice, and certainly should never dictate if I am allowed to continue my livelihood.
Seriously, how can some of you have no clue how the world works?
deddog said:Yesterday said:
Socialism only works when you build a wall to keep people in! Capitalism is so bad we have to build a wall to keep people out! Never forget!
I'll chip in for a Wall around Seattle
How about a wall around the entire west coast?
He claims to be a business owner. LOL
Your responses make it very clear that you are not. But carry on, tell us more about how running a business works.
In college station minimum wage is obviously just the federal, BUT Taco Bell is paying $10+. If I can't at least match that I can't hire anyone. If your business plan is based on federal minimum wage or bust you have no business being there in the first place.
In college station minimum wage is obviously just the federal, BUT Taco Bell is paying $10+. If I can't at least match that I can't hire anyone. If your business plan is based on federal minimum wage or bust you have no business being there in the first place.
EFR said:
I don't agree with their local minimum wage, but it is $4 higher than the state. If that forced them into chapter 7 they were hanging by a thread to start with. I stand by this (as a business owner), if you can't afford to pay above minimum wage you really can't afford to be in business.
That may be true of businesses that need higher educated or more skilled labor, but is absolutely NOT applicable to fast food, quick service restaurants, and most if not all retail.
There is a supply and demand market limit to how much you can sell a donut or a hamburger or t-shirt for, and if your COGS/unit were $8 and it was raised to $15 within 24 months due to minimum wage laws, that can absolutely force you into BK. Regardless of how much the principal owner was paying himself or how much he was able to take out of the business.
I agree with you, but we have zero info about pricing or how much the owner was paying himself, so this is all just wild guesses.
Kaiser von Wilhelm said:EFR said:
I don't agree with their local minimum wage, but it is $4 higher than the state. If that forced them into chapter 7 they were hanging by a thread to start with. I stand by this (as a business owner), if you can't afford to pay above minimum wage you really can't afford to be in business.
With every full time employee, for every $1 in wages that translates to $2k per year. So that $4 difference is an $8k increase in expenses per employee. How many full timers would you guess per location? Let's just say 10. That's $80k per year, not even including all other employee-related expenses that are impacted by payroll, you have to magically come up with. Taking an 80k hit is NOT hanging on by a thread for a business. Plus, thats 80k in expenses, which means you have to bring in well over 80k in income unless you have a flat increase in sales to compensate, which is unreasonable. That is enough to go from stable to destroyed overnight. But hey, go ahead an judge something you don't understand, and be giddy about businesses failing while pointing ALL blame onto the business owners. As business were told in SF before min wage went from $10 to $15, people were pretty ok with lots of places literally being run out of business, because if they can't afford to pay a living wage (whatever that means) then they have no right to be in business. That's what they said. No RIGHT. They were told they deserve to lose everything. I'm not even exaggerating, as I was running a business in SF at the time, and it was unbelievable to witness just how anti-small business that city truly was. And how much envy and bitterness was spouted, and much of it was even by techies making over 200k per year. I guess google and apple are allowed to stay in business, since they paid a living wage...
I remember when they first implemented the rate hike in SF, there was a local bookstore I really loved. The owner flat out said that you can't increase book prices. It's literally written on the cover, and most people shop on amazon anyway, so there's no wiggle room to increase prices to compensate for the massive hike in wages he had to come up with. People like myself loved going there because it was a great place. So he instantly closed shop, since he had no way to stay in business due to the government dictating if he survives or not, as he had no ability to significantly increase income to pay for the huge mandated increases that skyrocketed his cost of doing business. Of course, that guy also publicly said that even though he was run out of town because of it, that he supported people being paid a living wage. Maybe that was only said in public so he wasn't literally run out of the city (which they do there), so he had to play nice with the locals to appease their required views. Honestly I would not have hid my vitriol for what they had done to ruin my entire livelihood just to make a bunch of hipster idiots not hate me. F em all. Such hateful and nasty people don't deserve to have a voice, and certainly should never dictate if I am allowed to continue my livelihood.
Seriously, how can some of you have no clue how the world works?
Great post - but I don't think its so much that they are anti small business but rather they are anti-capitalism. Which is really odd because like you say even highly paid tech people act and vote the same way. Its very delusional thinking on their part and really shows the failure of going with feelings over facts that liberals cling to.
EFR said:
I agree with you, but we have zero info about pricing or how much the owner was paying himself, so this is all just wild guesses.
But enough for you to say that it was the business at fault, and not the gubmint?
The reality probably is that, it was a number of issues. There are places in America, where you'd hope the gubmint doesn't put up hindrances to business owners, that already have enough to take care off.
Seatlle is NOT one of those places.
I mean Starbucks is quitting Seattle at their HQ. Maybe they shouldn't be running a business either?
EFR said:
I agree with you, but we have zero info about pricing or how much the owner was paying himself, so this is all just wild guesses.
What difference does it matter what the owner pays himself? It's his business, he is taking the risk, spending his time and capital, and he get's to decide what he needs to make to be worth the time and effort. Profit is not a bad word. I imagine after 25 years, he wasn't in it for the practice or to play around the margins.
Evidently he did well enough for 25 years, until the government changed the ground rules and made it not worth the effort to keep going. This is exactly what happens when the government gets overly involved in pushing their left wing policies on otherwise successful enterprises. Everyone loses.
"Well, doctor, what have we got, a republic or a monarchy?" "A republic, if you can keep it" - Benjamin Franklin
Thats exactly what happened. You got it.EFR said:
if you can't afford to pay above minimum wage you really can't afford to be in business.
Ag87H2O said:EFR said:
I agree with you, but we have zero info about pricing or how much the owner was paying himself, so this is all just wild guesses.
What difference does it matter what the owner pays himself? It's his business, he is taking the risk, spending his time and capital, and he get's to decide what he needs to make to be worth the time and effort. Profit is not a bad word. I imagine after 25 years, he wasn't in it for the practice or to play around the margins.
Evidently he did well enough for 25 years, until the government changed the ground rules and made it not worth the effort to keep going. This is exactly what happens when the government gets overly involved in pushing their left wing policies on otherwise successful enterprises. Everyone loses.
I'm not reading this entire thread. But a point of clarification: there is no "he".
He retired last year and his daughter took over ownership. '13 UDub comm grad who was an event coordinator before dad roped her into his retirement plans.
A lot commentary and conjecture to summarize a terrible succession strategy.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/whitney-ballen?utm_source=share_via&utm_content=profile&utm_medium=member_ios
Featured Stories
See All
Aggie 'backers trending toward past production
by Olin Buchanan
5:39
3h ago
1.8k
Alyssa Lang sees Texas A&M as 'stock up' under Elko
by TexAgs Live
Around the SEC: Recruiting News & Trends
by Jason Howell
20:47
1d ago
5.1k
16:01
1d ago
2.6k
Pass the Sticks: Angelo McCullom vs. Marco Jones
by Andrew Wu