I just treated a bunch of small mesquite trees per the mixing instructions with water , Sendero, and surfactant. How long does it take to be effective? I plan on shredding the pasture at the end of August, that will be ok right?

You'll know if you killed it by then.

Don't even think about it until frost - next year even better

B-1 83 said:

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Don't even think about it until frost - next year even better

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It must have time to translocate to the roots. Mowing too soon does not allow this to take place, and you will waste your time, money and effort.

B-1 knows.

I still use Reclaim and Remedy becasue I buy it by the case. I spray about now until September. I use dye and coat the leaves well. Then I wait until next year. August is way too soon.

When everything greens up, the mesquite doesn't, then I know I can shred those down. I just work one pasture at a time, 50 gallon batches. I usually get 90% kill on mine and the rest require a second pop next year. I'll be switching to Sendero when I run out.

But as others said, you have to let it work it's magic.

On mine, the leaves yellow then brown and then fall off. If Sendero works the same then perhaps you could shred when they fall off but honestly, I think I wouldn't chance that. I'd wait to be sure. It's too expensive for me to take a chance and I don't give a hoot if the weeds get out of hand for a few months.

You will not know for sure if you killed it until next year. Everywhere that you sprayed will appear to be dead or dying within a few weeks of spraying, but there is always a spot or two that resprouts next year.

I sprayed lots of small mesquites in a field that had been shredded multiple times in the past last summer. Used remedy and diesel. Vegetation all fell off and trunks looked like twigs. Just about the time I was going to mow them under this spring aboit 50% of them sprung up fresh green from the root area. Very frustrating!
I guess work them over again this summer? What dye do y'all recommend with diesel? Most of the dyes say water soluble so not sure if it's effective with diesel.

oldarmy76 said:

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I sprayed lots of small mesquites in a field that had been shredded multiple times in the past last summer. Used remedy and diesel. Vegetation all fell off and trunks looked like twigs. Just about the time I was going to mow them under this spring aboit 50% of them sprung up fresh green from the root area. Very frustrating!
I guess work them over again this summer? What dye do y'all recommend with diesel? Most of the dyes say water soluble so not sure if it's effective with diesel.

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Did you spray the leaves with diesel and remedy? If you did, you burned off the leaves before the herbicide could translocate adequately into the stems. Remedy is water soluble and you can do a foliar spray with it, which is better for multi-stem mesquite.

Wow, Did not know this... so I usually shred end of august - mid sept to prepare for deer season.... So that would be a BAD idea. So what would be the best plan? late winter, then in spring treat any survivors that sprout up? What month would be the earliest you would shred in.
Thanks for the help, not even close to a farmer! Just use this land for hunting and recreation.

Invora is a fairly newer herbicide that been getting a lot of press in various places.

oldarmy76 said:

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I sprayed lots of small mesquites in a field that had been shredded multiple times in the past last summer. Used remedy and diesel. Vegetation all fell off and trunks looked like twigs. Just about the time I was going to mow them under this spring aboit 50% of them sprung up fresh green from the root area. Very frustrating!
I guess work them over again this summer? What dye do y'all recommend with diesel? Most of the dyes say water soluble so not sure if it's effective with diesel.

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I remember reading that if they've been shredded you have to wait a couple of years before spraying.

Here, Brush Country Ag's comment.

https://texags.com/forums/34/topics/1833689

Last summer I sprayed with a Trichlopyr/diesel mix. Got about an 50% kill rate. I'm almost tempted to cut at ground level with loppers and hose down the exposed base.

Cut stump treatment is the most effective, it just involves more labor.

As HTown said. Mixing diesel burns the leaves and will prevent a good kill.
It's good with Remedy for stump application though.
I use a mixture of Remedy and Reclaim with a good surfactant.

Diesel is used as a carrier and explicitly for basal use. It's a 'low volume' application. It's great on bigger stuff. remedy/reclaim/surfactant is explicitly for foliar use or 'high volume'. If you mix it right, you should get a really high kill rate. However, you can't shred a bush, and then come back and spray 2 twigs that have a few leaves on it and expect it to work. I will let these grow a season at least so I have a LOT of leaves to spray. The more the merrier for translocation. If you have already shredded them, then you need to go the diesel and basal spray route. It will kill it without leaves.

I killed a 6" mesquite that had grown under my shop and split my concrete. I cut the top off and left a stump about 6' high. I covered the exposed wound with the basal recipe one time, and it is dead as the concrete it destroyed.

We sprayed scendero in webb county and had great results. If it took you will know in 3-4 weeks.

https://southtexasrangelands.tamu.edu/files/2021/11/how-to-beat-mesquite.pdf

Remedy Ultra is vegetable oil based, so mixing it with water might not work well.
The diesel/Remedy mix, used as a basal application, has worked extremely well on the honey locust, mesquite, and huisache. Sure, a "re-sprout" occurs sometimes, or maybe that stem was simply missed.
We skip the foliar spray herbicides, for the thorny crap. No seasonal timing or rain issues that way.

Remedy and diesel works best when you spray a base treatment. Year round for the most part. The application of a dye is only for you to know as a "marker" early on. Sendero as a "leaf" spray when mesquite leaves are the right color, will be super effective as well. But you gotta let that sh*t soak.
Wait six months minimum and see what you got. Repeat the process next year. Unfortunately, it's never ending for us south Texas boys.

Huisatch for a folier(sp?) spray works best in October.

Remedy plus diesel as a basal spray gives me about 90% control.

Hey Jason, thanks for the detailed reply!
..... VAST majority of ours (and there were a lot) were only about mid thigh tall, skinny trunks maybe pencil to sharpie thick. Does that change the wait to shred wait time?

GSS said:

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Remedy Ultra is vegetable oil based, so mixing it with water might not work well.
The diesel/Remedy mix, used as a basal application, has worked extremely well on the honey locust, mesquite, and huisache. Sure, a "re-sprout" occurs sometimes, or maybe that stem was simply missed.
We skip the foliar spray herbicides, for the thorny crap. No seasonal timing or rain issues that way.

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Hence why I didn't call for Remedy Ultra.

redsnapper101 said:

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Hey Jason, thanks for the detailed reply!
..... VAST majority of ours (and there were a lot) were only about mid thigh tall, skinny trunks maybe pencil to sharpie thick. Does that change the wait to shred wait time?

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I know you're insistent on shredding this for deer hunting, but you're going to have to suffer through one hunting season if you want to get a decent kill. If you spray it this summer, you will have to wait until next summer to shred. You'll just have to be more selective with your shots and find some areas that won't block your shooting lanes. If you need to clear some lanes, your best bet is going to be to chop it off at the ground and use the cut stump treatment.

I'll second what the others here have said -- Remedy (61% triclopyr) is a wonderfully effective herbicide for woody brush control, particularly when mixed with diesel and used basally.

So effective, in fact, that I'm surprised the EPA hasn't yet banned it out of spite for effective chemicals and those who rely on them.

HTownAg98 said:

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redsnapper101 said:

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Hey Jason, thanks for the detailed reply!
..... VAST majority of ours (and there were a lot) were only about mid thigh tall, skinny trunks maybe pencil to sharpie thick. Does that change the wait to shred wait time?

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I know you're insistent on shredding this for deer hunting, but you're going to have to suffer through one hunting season if you want to get a decent kill. If you spray it this summer, you will have to wait until next summer to shred. You'll just have to be more selective with your shots and find some areas that won't block your shooting lanes. If you need to clear some lanes, your best bet is going to be to chop it off at the ground and use the cut stump treatment.

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This is what I would do. If you HAVE to cut it down, then mow it to the ground and then find the base stump that it's growing out of and soak it all in the basal recipe….stump, cut twigs sticking up, anything that is exposed. And do it quickly after
Mowing when the wound is fresh and it's still flowing juices.

Use diesel and hi light blue dye if you have some so you can make sure you have covered everything. I did this at our other ranch with a lot of success. I'd shred huisache as big as my shredder would handle all day and then that evening I'd go out and hit every stump sticking up with the basal spray recipe. Then I'd hit anything else that was too big to mow with it as well. Then the next year when all of those were dead, I'd push the rotting tree over and mow it all down and repeat the process.

HTownAg98 said:

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GSS said:

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Remedy Ultra is vegetable oil based, so mixing it with water might not work well.
The diesel/Remedy mix, used as a basal application, has worked extremely well on the honey locust, mesquite, and huisache. Sure, a "re-sprout" occurs sometimes, or maybe that stem was simply missed.
We skip the foliar spray herbicides, for the thorny crap. No seasonal timing or rain issues that way.

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Hence why I didn't call for Remedy Ultra.

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"Remedy" was petroleum based, and became "Remedy Ultra" when they switched to vegetable oil based....but no doubt adding "Ultra" to the label implied "improved formula, works even better.."

Sprayed about 50 acres in the Ozarks on a field covered with 2'-3' white and red oak saplings. Used Remedy Ultra with a quality surfactant and water Applied with 30' boom sprayer mixed 2.5 gallons Remedy Ultra to 200 gallons water. Applied at 20 gallons/acre.
Gave a good kill in 8 weeks.

The protocol that we have used at our Gillespie county ranch has been to spray mesquite with a 1% solution of Sendero along with 32 oz of 80/20 Surfactant per 100 gallons and a blue dye so we know where we've been. We spot spray each plant, as that is the most efficient use of the Sendero which costs upwards of $200+ per gallon.

This season we have sprayed probably 2000 plants which is quite tiring but well worth the effort. After spraying the most important thing is to wait until the time is right before you shred. Within 10-14 days the foliage will turn brown and the plant will look dead. It isn't. After about two months you will be able to grab a small branch of outermost growth and it will snap off. That means it is dying, but not necessarily dead yet. If you grab a branch closer to the ground and try to snap it and it just bends then it's still very much alive.

So wait! Somewhere between 6 to 12 months after spraying you will be able to grasp a branch near the ground and just snap it off. At that point you are probably safe to mow. If you mow it prior to this time you have just wasted a lot of money and time because it's going to come back with a vengeance. Mowing a live mesquite sends a signal to the root that it needs to put out more shoots, and does it ever!

Patience is truly a virtue when dealing with mesquite.

After spraying Sendero on all the smaller stuff we are now going to take a chainsaw to the bigger stuff. Our plan is to cut down each tree and immediately paint the stump with a solution of 25% Remedy Ultra and 75% diesel. My understanding is there is about a 15 minute window after cutting that the Remedy/diesel must be applied for full efficacy.

We are going after the big stuff now that we've sprayed the little stuff since the little stuff is spawned by the big stuff along with help from birds, cows and other critters. If we can get most of it we will likely prevent another huge spraying project from taking place for quite a while. Or at least we think so.
Bill

Question: I'm concerned we may be using too much surfactant? We have a 16 gallon sprayer on the back of our ATV. For that volume, we have used 600ml (2.5 cups) of Sendero, combined with 475ml (2 cups) of Surfactant, and 5 ounces of blue dye. The leaves on the trees are showing distress and dying within 2-4 days. Is that too fast to translocate the Sendero into the roots? Are we burning the leaves with too much surfactant? We have sprayed 25+ acres and I would hate to think we aren't doing it right.

What type/brand of surfactant are you using? Rates can range from 1/8% to 1%. My math says you are probably ok but it would help to know if we are talking about a NIS, Organosilicone, MSO, MSO Blend or Crop Oil.

Surfactant is not burning the leaves. It's job is to hold the chemical to the leaves so that they can absorb it longer (as long as you're not using diesel it the like). It sounds like you've got mesquite that are hungry and actively growing therefore the chemical is working good. The leaves turn brown pretty quickly but the key is that they're mature enough to absorb the chemical (dark green instead of lime green when soil temperatures are below 75f) and that the chemical stayed on the leaf long enough to absorb (surfactant's job).

If you've sprayed 25 acres with a 16 gallon sprayer, you're working your tail off. Keep it up and from this point forward, annual maintenance with Sendero will be a breeze!

CrossTimbersW said:

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Surfactant is not burning the leaves. It's job is to hold the chemical to the leaves so that they can absorb it longer (as long as you're not using diesel it the like). It sounds like you've got mesquite that are hungry and actively growing therefore the chemical is working good. The leaves turn brown pretty quickly but the key is that they're mature enough to absorb the chemical (dark green instead of lime green when soil temperatures are below 75f) and that the chemical stayed on the leaf long enough to absorb (surfactant's job).

If you've sprayed 25 acres with a 16 gallon sprayer, you're working your tail off. Keep it up and from this point forward, annual maintenance with Sendero will be a breeze!

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Thanks for the encouragement and the information. My 75 year old mom and I have been killing it (pardon the pun) for a couple of weeks now. I'm a healthy 51 year old man and she is keeping up with me. She is truly remarkable. We're about to finish another 8 acres tomorrow after 3 more days of work. I wouldn't even dare to hazard a guess as to how many trees we have sprayed but it feels like there are 20,000+ trees on the 80 acres of property.

We are facing another pasture that contains 15 acres of densely packed 5-7 year old trees, surrounded by some very mature trees that appear to be the propagating the intense growth. The plan is to basal spray the mature trees surrounding the pasture and continue with the Sendero on the middle. Not gonna lie, if someone wants to come hit it with a crop duster full of Sendero I ain't too proud to beg.

Muddyfeet said:

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What type/brand of surfactant are you using? Rates can range from 1/8% to 1%. My math says you are probably ok but it would help to know if we are talking about a NIS, Organosilicone, MSO, MSO Blend or Crop Oil.

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Modified Vegetable Oil surfactant blend. Does that help?

Kingdom Kid said:

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CrossTimbersW said:

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Surfactant is not burning the leaves. It's job is to hold the chemical to the leaves so that they can absorb it longer (as long as you're not using diesel it the like). It sounds like you've got mesquite that are hungry and actively growing therefore the chemical is working good. The leaves turn brown pretty quickly but the key is that they're mature enough to absorb the chemical (dark green instead of lime green when soil temperatures are below 75f) and that the chemical stayed on the leaf long enough to absorb (surfactant's job).

If you've sprayed 25 acres with a 16 gallon sprayer, you're working your tail off. Keep it up and from this point forward, annual maintenance with Sendero will be a breeze!

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Thanks for the encouragement and the information. My 75 year old mom and I have been killing it (pardon the pun) for a couple of weeks now. I'm a healthy 51 year old man and she is keeping up with me. She is truly remarkable. We're about to finish another 8 acres tomorrow after 3 more days of work. I wouldn't even dare to hazard a guess as to how many trees we have sprayed but it feels like there are 20,000+ trees on the 80 acres of property.

We are facing another pasture that contains 15 acres of densely packed 5-7 year old trees, surrounded by some very mature trees that appear to be the propagating the intense growth. The plan is to basal spray the mature trees surrounding the pasture and continue with the Sendero on the middle. Not gonna lie, if someone wants to come hit it with a crop duster full of Sendero I ain't too proud to beg.

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Sounds like you are doing great. Just make sure you don't miss a single leaf. Sendero does a great job as long as you get complete coverage.

Now I need to get out and start spraying myself. This year has brought up every single seed I believe.

Kingdom Kid said:

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CrossTimbersW said:

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Surfactant is not burning the leaves. It's job is to hold the chemical to the leaves so that they can absorb it longer (as long as you're not using diesel it the like). It sounds like you've got mesquite that are hungry and actively growing therefore the chemical is working good. The leaves turn brown pretty quickly but the key is that they're mature enough to absorb the chemical (dark green instead of lime green when soil temperatures are below 75f) and that the chemical stayed on the leaf long enough to absorb (surfactant's job).

If you've sprayed 25 acres with a 16 gallon sprayer, you're working your tail off. Keep it up and from this point forward, annual maintenance with Sendero will be a breeze!

---

Thanks for the encouragement and the information. My 75 year old mom and I have been killing it (pardon the pun) for a couple of weeks now. I'm a healthy 51 year old man and she is keeping up with me. She is truly remarkable. We're about to finish another 8 acres tomorrow after 3 more days of work. I wouldn't even dare to hazard a guess as to how many trees we have sprayed but it feels like there are 20,000+ trees on the 80 acres of property.

We are facing another pasture that contains 15 acres of densely packed 5-7 year old trees, surrounded by some very mature trees that appear to be the propagating the intense growth. The plan is to basal spray the mature trees surrounding the pasture and continue with the Sendero on the middle. Not gonna lie, if someone wants to come hit it with a crop duster full of Sendero I ain't too proud to beg.

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If those mature trees don't have slick bark, basal treatment won't work on them. What you can do on those with rough bark is cut into the trunk with a chainsaw about 1" deep and treat that exposed cambium layer. That will get them.