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homemade wine?

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oh no
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3:36p, 12/12/24
AG
Have any of you landowners become amateur viticulturists and/or enologists?

...as much as I will enjoy shooting hogs and harvesting a deer every now and then on my land, after drinking a bottle of someone else's homemade wine they made on their property, my curiosity is piqued about the possibility of planting some rows of black spanish vines and trying to farm-to-table source my own drinking problem.

would it take years to get the grapes producing at a good enough level to bottle something really tasty?

tips, tricks, and advice would be appreciated.
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BlitzGD
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7:04p, 12/12/24
AG
Just buy some raisins, wine yeast, and some sugar, can make your own without all the hassle... Had a HS Biology teacher who taught us that.

Else 3-5 years is kinda the minimum depending on varietal.
Quarterback can't throw the ball lying on his back.
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oh no
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8:15p, 12/12/24
AG
Damn 3-5 years? I guess I should test the soil and get started right away. Do you think you have to train the vines all spring/summer, cut them down to nubs every winter, etc. even in years 1-3 if they aren't producing that many good grapes yet?
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BurnetAggie99
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8:20p, 12/12/24
If you have any wild Mustang grapes they make a good homemade wine
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oh no
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8:26p, 12/12/24
AG
Not familiar with Mustang. But I saw the vineyard an acquaintance set up with black Spanish and his wine was delicious
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BrazosDog02
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8:48p, 12/12/24
AG
We make 5-15 gallons a year or so. I use Mustang Grapes. This year we made some out of Loquat and Apples, and we make it out Blackberry as well. I've made wine out of Tomatoes, Cherries, Strawberries, Blackberries, Rhubarb, Dendelions....You can make it out of anything really, but I prefer Mustang Grapes.

It does not take years if you have a grape source...and that's why I don't like to grow them.

You can plant grapes and that's fine but that's a lot of work. If I were growing grapes....I would go with these: https://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/13/2020/05/Champanel-EHT-120.pdf

If you want to make your life easy and make wine, you can buy kits online for any variety you want. I've never done it because I always had an ample supply of grapes. I would encourage that to start out so that you can understand the process and what you're doing. It's a heartbreaking thing to screw up a batch of wine after you spent all day picking 40lbs of grapes, cleaning, destemming, prepping, crushing, juicing, etc.....
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RikkiTikkaTagem
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In reply to BlitzGD • 8:50p, 12/12/24
AG
BlitzGD said:
Just buy some raisins, wine yeast, and some sugar, can make your own without all the hassle... Had a HS Biology teacher who taught us that.

Else 3-5 years is kinda the minimum depending on varietal.


Ran right by the fact that this was a high school teacher telling yall this.
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oh no
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In reply to BrazosDog02 • 9:01p, 12/12/24
AG
Interesting. Thank you.

Here is that same brochure for black Spanish

https://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/13/2020/05/Black-Spanish-EHT-119.pdf
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alvtimes
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9:30p, 12/12/24
Ive contemplated growing some but decided between the birds, deer, and every other wildlife wanting some the hassle wouldnt match the squeeze!
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S.A. Aggie
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9:33p, 12/12/24
AG
Agarita wine is pretty tasty too.
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DoitBest
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10:08p, 12/12/24
S
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JB!98
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10:10p, 12/12/24
AG
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Shoefly!
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In reply to BlitzGD • 10:28p, 12/12/24
AG
BlitzGD said:
Just buy some raisins, wine yeast, and some sugar, can make your own without all the hassle... Had a HS Biology teacher who taught us that.

Else 3-5 years is kinda the minimum depending on varietal.

Some of the best tasting wine I've had was carrot wine, the strongest that made you feel weird was cactus pear, another good one was Texas Persimmon.
We were bird hunting the day we drank the *****ly pear wine, I couldn't hit squat.
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krosch11
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10:28p, 12/12/24
AG
Hort 420 . Best class I ever took at A&M. McEachern is still at Tamu. Shoot him an email.

Guy is one the main reason we have a wine industry in Texas. Good article below.


https://issuu.com/arboronline/docs/arbor_winter_spring_2020_web/s/10431467

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AnScAggie
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10:34p, 12/12/24
AG
For some reason this scene from Sopranos popped into my head when reading this thread.
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Milwaukees Best Light
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11:19p, 12/12/24
AG
You give me $500, wait 3 years, punch yourself in the nuts and I will deliver 12 magnums of Yellow Tail. Best deal you will get on this thread.
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DoitBest
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In reply to Milwaukees Best Light • 11:51p, 12/12/24
S
If you were to throw in the fanny pack with cup holder, it sounds like a bargain
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oh no
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In reply to Milwaukees Best Light • 12:43a, 12/13/24
AG
Planting some grape vines and trying to grow grapes sounds like a lot more fun
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RoadkillBBQ
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In reply to Shoefly! • 7:44a, 12/13/24
Shoefly! said:
BlitzGD said:
Just buy some raisins, wine yeast, and some sugar, can make your own without all the hassle... Had a HS Biology teacher who taught us that.

Else 3-5 years is kinda the minimum depending on varietal.

Some of the best tasting wine I've had was carrot wine, the strongest that made you feel weird was cactus pear, another good one was Texas Persimmon.
We were bird hunting the day we drank the *****ly pear wine, I couldn't hit squat.
"strongest that made you feel weird was cactus pear"


That was probably peyote.
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jordancolleges1
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7:52a, 12/13/24
Amateur wine maker, learned my technique and recipe from my grandfather and my dad. In Texas, wild mustang grapes for wine or jelly just can't be beat. Best time to harvest is between Father's Day and July 4th. If you have any direct questions hit me up.
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oh no
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In reply to jordancolleges1 • 9:03a, 12/13/24
AG
Awesome. Thank you.

Can you buy mustang at local nurseries, nearby vineyards/wineries, or do you have to order online?

Is this about right?

- plant (or prune existing vines) in December/January
- train vines, water, fungicide (if needed from too much rain in spring) in spring / early summer
- harvest grapes in July/mid-summer


I'm just now about to close on my land and the hillside near water source I think I'd want to plant some rows of vines should probably need some soil testing (& treating if necessary), and I will need time to build out wires or figure out the best type of trellis system that is easy and cheap enough to build and maintain yet be effective, as well as run water there. I'm thinking planting vines might be a year 2 or year 3 project for me if I ever get to it. Maybe I'll be bottling my own vintages in about 5 years lol. I will be reaching out!
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BlueSmoke
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10:22a, 12/13/24
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SupermachJM
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In reply to oh no • 10:47a, 12/13/24
Where in Texas are you located?
If you're gulf coast then Black Spanish, Blanc Du Bois, or another hybrid variety would be best because of resistance to Pierce's disease.

If you're elsewhere you can actually grow some pretty decent 'real' wine grapes. We've planted a few dozen Tempranillo and Tannat vines in my parents backyard. You can order the dormant cuttings online and often times can get ones already grafted to resistant rootstock. We've propagated our own on their own roots just accepting that they'll eventually die from Pierce's.

As far as timeline, you'll want to plant after the last freeze in the spring. First year just let the grape vines grow. Wait until they go dormant (usually mid winter, Feb timeframe). Then you can prune them back to the strongest two shoots. These will form the 'trunks' of your vine depending on how you decide to prune it in the future (you can look up what pruning type is best for what you plant but spur or cane pruning are most common). I'll see if I can find the reference book we used in viticulture - there's a ton of good resources online though.

Year 2 is when you're trying to establish your vine shape. You don't really need any trellising in year 1 but by year 2 you'll want to run some kind of wires for the vines to grow along. You can do some early spring pruning to force growth into the strongest shoots. In winter you can prune again after it is dormant and you should be set to have everything take shape for year 3.

You won't get grapes earlier than year 3 (nor do you really want them - you want all of the vine's energy into growth). Most vineyards you'll see start actually harvesting between year 3 and year 5.

Reach out to Dr. Justin Scheiner - he's the TAMU extension viticulturalist. Super nice guy and should be able to at least direct you to the best resources. Dr. McEachern is good too, but he was old when I took his classes and that was half a decade ago. He may or may not even answer your emails.

Sincerely,

Someone who got the Viticulture & Enology Certificate from TAMU

P.S. If you're in the DFW area and want to try your hand at homemade wine making without the growing part, there's a vineyard near Argyle called '3 Vines Vineyard'. They grow grapes for home winemakers and sell them by the lb. You go out early in August and pick them yourself. They will even run them through their crusher for you. I'm currently working on a Sangiovese - Cabernet 'Super Tuscan' type blend that has been coming along quite nicely.
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SupermachJM
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In reply to oh no • 10:52a, 12/13/24
oh no said:
Awesome. Thank you.

Can you buy mustang at local nurseries, nearby vineyards/wineries, or do you have to order online? We've ordered our cuttings online or propagated ourself - You can also ask local wineries for cuttings in the late winter/early spring. Messina Hof in Bryan sells theirs if you ask in Feb/March and I'm sure other wineries will also. Otherwise it goes in the compost/trash/burn pile.

Is this about right?

- plant (or prune existing vines) in December/January - Plant in spring, prune after vines have gone dormant (depending on how the winter goes you may need to wait until Feb)
- train vines, water, fungicide (if needed from too much rain in spring) in spring / early summer Pretty much
- harvest grapes in July/mid-summer Earliest harvest is July for Blanc Du Bois - otherwise you'll usually harvest in August in TX. Buy a cheap refractometer from Amazon and you'll be able to test sugar levels to see when you're ready for harvest.


I'm just now about to close on my land and the hillside near water source I think I'd want to plant some rows of vines should probably need some soil testing (& treating if necessary), and I will need time to build out wires or figure out the best type of trellis system that is easy and cheap enough to build and maintain yet be effective, as well as run water there. I'm thinking planting vines might be a year 2 or year 3 project for me if I ever get to it. I'd plant the grapes first to get them going and then work on the trellis system over the next couple of years. It's probably not the 'best' order but more practical when you're doing it yourself and can't pay to have it all done quickly.
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oh no
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In reply to SupermachJM • 11:10a, 12/13/24
AG
Awesome! Thank you!
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In reply to SupermachJM • 3:00p, 12/13/24
AG
SupermachJM said:
Where in Texas are you located?
aggieland!
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maddiedou
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5:38p, 12/13/24
SupermachJM
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In reply to oh no • 5:44p, 12/13/24
Yeah, in that case I'd try for black Spanish or Blanc Du Bois if you want the vines to last more than a few years. You can go to Messina Hof and ask if they will give/sell you some cuttings. Honestly if you go in January they may have already started pruning and have them on hand. You may need to ask for the manager to ask the winemaker because the front of house employees usually don't do much other than tours or tastings.
You could also ask Threshold vineyards, they are very nice there too and might be willing to give some cuttings!
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jordancolleges1
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In reply to oh no • 6:49p, 12/13/24
Grandpa always sand the vines like sandy soil
I've never grown them. Just harvest them from vines at our family's property and from along the road side
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AggieOO
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11:19a, 12/14/24
In the 3-5 years you are waiting on your grapes, you can buy grapes/juice from a homebrewing place and learn the wines making process so your eventual estate wine isn't complete garbage once you can harvest grapes.
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Bonfire97
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11:46a, 12/14/24
AG
Does anyone have a mustang grape wine recipe they would be willing to share? I have tried everything. Gone to Defalcos and used wine yeast and their recipe. Too acidic and tasted like crap. Tried the "old timers" recipes with no yeast or bread yeast. That also turned out terrible. I always made sure to pick only extremely ripe grapes. I had an older 2nd cousin who would make decent mustang grape wine, but he is sort of a jerk and wouldn't give me the recipe…..
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SupermachJM
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In reply to Bonfire97 • 11:53a, 12/14/24
You can always add more sugar after fermentation as long as you also add something like potassium metabisulfite also so no other funky bacteria start feeding on the sugar
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Shoefly!
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In reply to SupermachJM • 12:25p, 12/14/24
AG
SupermachJM said:
Where in Texas are you located?
If you're gulf coast then Black Spanish, Blanc Du Bois, or another hybrid variety would be best because of resistance to Pierce's disease.

If you're elsewhere you can actually grow some pretty decent 'real' wine grapes. We've planted a few dozen Tempranillo and Tannat vines in my parents backyard. You can order the dormant cuttings online and often times can get ones already grafted to resistant rootstock. We've propagated our own on their own roots just accepting that they'll eventually die from Pierce's.

As far as timeline, you'll want to plant after the last freeze in the spring. First year just let the grape vines grow. Wait until they go dormant (usually mid winter, Feb timeframe). Then you can prune them back to the strongest two shoots. These will form the 'trunks' of your vine depending on how you decide to prune it in the future (you can look up what pruning type is best for what you plant but spur or cane pruning are most common). I'll see if I can find the reference book we used in viticulture - there's a ton of good resources online though.

Year 2 is when you're trying to establish your vine shape. You don't really need any trellising in year 1 but by year 2 you'll want to run some kind of wires for the vines to grow along. You can do some early spring pruning to force growth into the strongest shoots. In winter you can prune again after it is dormant and you should be set to have everything take shape for year 3.

You won't get grapes earlier than year 3 (nor do you really want them - you want all of the vine's energy into growth). Most vineyards you'll see start actually harvesting between year 3 and year 5.

Reach out to Dr. Justin Scheiner - he's the TAMU extension viticulturalist. Super nice guy and should be able to at least direct you to the best resources. Dr. McEachern is good too, but he was old when I took his classes and that was half a decade ago. He may or may not even answer your emails.

Sincerely,

Someone who got the Viticulture & Enology Certificate from TAMU

P.S. If you're in the DFW area and want to try your hand at homemade wine making without the growing part, there's a vineyard near Argyle called '3 Vines Vineyard'. They grow grapes for home winemakers and sell them by the lb. You go out early in August and pick them yourself. They will even run them through their crusher for you. I'm currently working on a Sangiovese - Cabernet 'Super Tuscan' type blend that has been coming along quite nicely.

I read that Goliad County, San Antonio river bottom, wild mustang root saved the wine industry in Europe. I cannot find the original article but I came upon it when I was taking Soil Sci 401.
This article is from 2021, mentions Texas but not the county.
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krosch11
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In reply to Shoefly! • 12:28p, 12/14/24
AG
McEachern taught about that. It's been over 13 years but I believe they had a massive disease, and we had branches of the original vines , so they cut some and took them back.

If I recall correctly they were eradicated in Europe and we had the last ones which they replanted . Could be foggy on the details
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SupermachJM
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12:39p, 12/14/24
You guys are close.

Denison is actually a sister city with Cognac France because of a gentleman named Thomas Volney Munson.
An insect called phylloxera was accidentally brought to Europe. It feeds on grape vine roots and the Vinifera vines in Europe are highly susceptible to it. Munson did research into grafting native Texas rootstock which was naturally resistant to the insect onto European vines. It worked, and now he's credited with saving the European wine industry.
A majority of the vines in the world actually have rootstock descended from Texas, or so I've been told.

It's also why "Ironroot" distillery in Denison decided to call themselves that name.

Edit: Munson may have gotten his rootstock from Goliad county. I'm not sure, I just know that he lived in Denison while he did his research but used vines from all over Texas
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