The original Tundra V8 had issues as well. But, the one thing Toyota does well is incrementally improving the engine each year. After several years and a lot learned from failure, the old V8 was awesome.
Failed Engine in 24 Tundra
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Last: 1 day ago by aggieforester05
spieg12 said:BlueSmoke said:
Too much tech. Too many moving parts. Too complicated with stuff that can easily break.
I dont like this argument because most people don't remember things accurately when it comes older tech or machines.
Too much tech is subjective. It's not inherently good or bad. It's people who are good or bad with technology and the people who are bad with it aren't willing to learn.
Too many moving parts is objectivley false. Moden vehicles have fewer moving parts than old ones because everything is electronic now. Think of how many moving parts were involved with just a carburetor.
Too complicated with stuff that can easily break is two different things. Too complicated is again subjective. Stuff that can easily break I will somewhat agree with you on. Lots of stuff made out of plastic or aluminum these days to try to meet MPG requirements.
I have owned two vehicles, a 2012 chevy half ton and a 2022 half ton. The 2012 I only ever replaced tires, batteries, and spark plugs in 130,000 miles. The 2022 has had nothing done yet but oil changes but it only has 19,000 miles so we will see.
I have heard from folks older than me that vehicles from the 70's and 80's were constantly needing various things worked on, minor or major. It has been my experience that newer vehicles have been very reliable. Even the much liked GMT400's that I learned drive on had problems. They didn't call the transmission in those 4LslipE for nothing.
I think part of it is the price of modern high-tech cars, plus the insane costs of repairs. For instance, the recirculation is broken in my F-150...a proper fix supposedly would cost in the thousands. That's f-ing insane lol.
Yea, my dad's early 80's Caprice may have had some issues, but he or his friends were able to fix most things themselves, and in the event they couldn't, prices at the mechanic were not back breaking. Also, mechanics seemed FAR more competant back when cars were simpler.
Long story short, you FEEL IT way more now when you just paid $70-85k for a truck that is failing at 30-40k miles. And when cost of rapairs on modern autos WAY outpace inflation over the decades.
My neightbor has a 1-yr old ZR2 that I am guessing cost him at least $75k...already having significant drive train issues...I'd be LIVID.
BlueSmoke said:
Too much tech. Too many moving parts. Too complicated with stuff that can easily break.
Favorite truck I ever had was an '88 Ford extended cab with that bulletproof, inline-6. Dual gas tanks. Vinyl seats. Manual transmission. Zero issues for decades with that old girl. Man, a truck like that would be easy to make, have minimal maintenance, and sell like hotcakes.
And they'll never make it.....
because no one will buy them.
it's like everyone lamenting the loss of the manual transmission. You can still get a few cars with them and they're not selling.
agracer said:BlueSmoke said:
Too much tech. Too many moving parts. Too complicated with stuff that can easily break.
Favorite truck I ever had was an '88 Ford extended cab with that bulletproof, inline-6. Dual gas tanks. Vinyl seats. Manual transmission. Zero issues for decades with that old girl. Man, a truck like that would be easy to make, have minimal maintenance, and sell like hotcakes.
And they'll never make it.....
because no one will buy them.
it's like everyone lamenting the loss of the manual transmission. You can still get a few cars with them and they're not selling.
Maybe not trucks, but others truly want six speed manuals on cars.
Yeah everyone says that crap and I know there's a lot of truth behind it but it's still frustrating. I spent a small fortune last year on a truck because it had a standard transmission.
Does anyone think that Toyota just flat out eats $30K motor replacements on an $80K truck. Its like insurance. They may payout, but the rest of the poor souls are going to have their rates raised.
This motor replacement is evened out by the next purchasers of said vehicles, so these failures are recaptured for the motor company.
All for a BS reason of muh-environment.
Bring back the naturally aspirated V8/V6, and drop vehicle prices across the board by doing so.
It's not that hard.
This motor replacement is evened out by the next purchasers of said vehicles, so these failures are recaptured for the motor company.
All for a BS reason of muh-environment.
Bring back the naturally aspirated V8/V6, and drop vehicle prices across the board by doing so.
It's not that hard.
"Green" is the new RED.
Thanks for explaining the basics of the free market to us.
austinag1997 said:agracer said:BlueSmoke said:
Too much tech. Too many moving parts. Too complicated with stuff that can easily break.
Favorite truck I ever had was an '88 Ford extended cab with that bulletproof, inline-6. Dual gas tanks. Vinyl seats. Manual transmission. Zero issues for decades with that old girl. Man, a truck like that would be easy to make, have minimal maintenance, and sell like hotcakes.
And they'll never make it.....
because no one will buy them.
it's like everyone lamenting the loss of the manual transmission. You can still get a few cars with them and they're not selling.
Maybe not trucks, but others truly want six speed manuals on cars.
Some really do but the market says most don't
Old Sarge said:
Does anyone think that Toyota just flat out eats $30K motor replacements on an $80K truck. Its like insurance. They may payout, but the rest of the poor souls are going to have their rates raised.
This motor replacement is evened out by the next purchasers of said vehicles, so these failures are recaptured for the motor company.
All for a BS reason of muh-environment.
Bring back the naturally aspirated V8/V6, and drop vehicle prices across the board by doing so.
It's not that hard.
Glad I could help guys.
Too bad the free market applies the "failure tax" to new buyers via the "Muh Environment" tax, which was meant to be the crux of it. All the applied costs are because of a BS argument, thus unnecessary.
Too bad the free market applies the "failure tax" to new buyers via the "Muh Environment" tax, which was meant to be the crux of it. All the applied costs are because of a BS argument, thus unnecessary.
"Green" is the new RED.
MouthBQ98 said:
It's really hard to find a completely reliable drivetrain right now. I think the regulations snd market conditions have pushed engineers and product planners to really test tolerances on weight reduction, production cost minimization, and to prioritize fuel economy in design over durability and safety margin. I've noticed a lot of problems that appear to be bearings that could be affected by material use, quality, and tight tolerances, and designs pushing limits on vibration and mass minimization, and probably newer design and production methods that get physically tested less and operate more in the virtual environment. Parts fail for unanticipated reasons that are difficult to discern and tease out of the data and physical evidence, and fixes are very costly to implement.
And now, whether they fix it or paper it over depends entirely on a cost calculation of warranty issues and reputation hit versus recall costs and production line changes.
And now????
Ford has been doing this since the 70s
Known issue in the newer Tundras. Sucks to have to go through it, but Toyota has been good at taking care of it.
I blame the fuel standards. They have pushed these things to the limit and beyond with some stupid design and features to minimize fuel consumption at the cost of all else. Toyota will get this sorted out because their MO is to get something working well and then not changing it, but this episode has demonstrated none of the automakers are immune
Ag for Life said:
Sorry to hear that. It's a damn shame because the Tundra 5.7/6 speed combo from 2007-2021 was one of the most bulletproof powertrains of all time.
Unfortunately this appears to be a main bearing design flaw as the "machining debris" would have been rectified by now from their original recall on the 2022-2023 Tundras.
Toyota should reincarnate the 5.7
It boggles my mind that Toyota doesn't still offer the 5.7 in the Tundra and the V-6 in the Tacoma. I bought my son a 2020 Taco knowing he can drive that for at least a decade, long after I am involved in his vehicle purchases. There is a solid part of the market that just wants a solid drivetrain you can rely on but no one wants to make it anymore, it's all turbos.
"The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help."
Ronald Reagan
Ronald Reagan
If you read this thread you'll see that Toyota pretty much had no choice but to jump on the small displacement twin turbo drivetrain BS for their trucks and SUVs.
Government standards drive this, not the free market.
Government standards drive this, not the free market.
If more people choose to drive sedans and station wagons instead of trucks and SUVs, maybe the V8 trucks would still be around.
It would also help to get back to a Gen1 Tundra size for both curb weight and aero drag.
It would also help to get back to a Gen1 Tundra size for both curb weight and aero drag.
tk for tu juan said:
If more people choose to drive sedans and station wagons instead of trucks and SUVs, maybe the V8 trucks would still be around.
It would also help to get back to a Gen1 Tundra size for both curb weight and aero drag.
I love the 2000 I bought from my dad.
Kinda wish his T-100 was still around from '93. I loved that truck.
GAC06 said:austinag1997 said:agracer said:BlueSmoke said:
Too much tech. Too many moving parts. Too complicated with stuff that can easily break.
Favorite truck I ever had was an '88 Ford extended cab with that bulletproof, inline-6. Dual gas tanks. Vinyl seats. Manual transmission. Zero issues for decades with that old girl. Man, a truck like that would be easy to make, have minimal maintenance, and sell like hotcakes.
And they'll never make it.....
because no one will buy them.
it's like everyone lamenting the loss of the manual transmission. You can still get a few cars with them and they're not selling.
Maybe not trucks, but others truly want six speed manuals on cars.
Some really do but the market says most don't
Looking at autotrader over the last 10 years:
approximately
25% of Mustang GTs and Dark Horses were manual.
65% of Mazda MX-5
40% of Lotus Evora
50% of Toyota 86
33% Camaro SS
Manuals may not represent the majority of the performance market, but they represent a sizable chunk. I assume most of those buyers would not purchase the same vehicle if it was automatic only, because that would severely degrade the driving experience and they'd look elsewhere.
I prefer a world, where there are choices and manual transmissions aren't regulated out of existence thanks to crash testing and fuel economy/emissions testing making them prohibitively expensive to offer as a choice. Auto buyers can have their automatic performance car and manual buyers can buy a manual version of the same car. That's worked well for a long time. Getting rid of manuals, sure hasn't made the prices come down.
Porsche has had some good success bringing manuals back to models where it was no longer offered.
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