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Dabo or Day - Chemistry vs Talent

3,044 Views | 26 Replies | Last: 4 days ago by He is Ass My Dude
Law Of The Quad
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WSJ suggesting Dabo's patience will payoff, that his well developed players and chemistry will beat transfers.
Coach Elko seems to be trying to do both.

https://www.wsj.com/sports/football/clemson-dabo-swinney-bbd418f0?st=KUG1NQ&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink
greg.w.h
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The point of the article is Dabo is pursuing developing students traditionally without relying (as heavily at least) on the portal for transfers.

"For everyone, that is, except Clemson's Dabo Swinneywho still runs his program like it's 1995. He has built a new-school contender in a decidedly old-school way: coaching the players he already has until they're good enough to win a championship.

"We're in this world where if you're not great as a freshman, you stink, and you move on to the next guy," Swinney lamented at the Atlantic Coast Conference media days last month. "It's a developmental game.""
LB12Diamond
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Winning at Clemson is much more impressive than winning at Ohio State.
Aggie_Journalist
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The author of this article assumes returning production is only about players entering the transfers portal. They seem to have forgotten that players also graduate. The data underlying their argument doesn't necessarily say what they say it does.
Thanks and gig'em
AgDad121619
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" He has built a new-school contender in a decidedly old-school way: coaching the players he already has until they're good enough to win a championship."

Except he hasn't been relevant since he took this stance. And right now , success this year is only projected.
ccolley68
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AgDad121619 said:

" He has built a new-school contender in a decidedly old-school way: coaching the players he already has until they're good enough to win a championship."

Except he hasn't been relevant since he took this stance. And right now , success this year is only projected.


I would give anything for the Aggies to be as irrelevant as Dabo's Clemson teams.
halfastros81
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It has to be a mix to win titles imo. Even the highly successful teams that fill gaps with expensive portal talent still need continuity to win year over year. That continuity is built with multi year players in a program.
jrgypsum
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Dabo > Day, AD
Viper16
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ccolley68 said:

AgDad121619 said:

" He has built a new-school contender in a decidedly old-school way: coaching the players he already has until they're good enough to win a championship."

Except he hasn't been relevant since he took this stance. And right now , success this year is only projected.


I would give anything for the Aggies to be as irrelevant as Dabo's Clemson teams.

Here, here ccolley68! Well said and I echo that!

your post can't be starred enough!!

Gig 'Em!
Lex Talionis.......Ordo Seclorum
Timberwolf
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Greg McElroy says Clemson is his favorite to win it this year. He is a fairly smart guy.
AGDAD14
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I would rather play for Dabo for free, than get paid to play for Day.
AgDad121619
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ccolley68 said:

AgDad121619 said:

" He has built a new-school contender in a decidedly old-school way: coaching the players he already has until they're good enough to win a championship."

Except he hasn't been relevant since he took this stance. And right now , success this year is only projected.


I would give anything for the Aggies to be as irrelevant as Dabo's Clemson teams.
I would agree if you are talking pre- open market on players but they have been been 3-4 loss per year team in ACC since 2021. I think we could do the same or better against that same gauntlet of teams. Point being is he isn't having the success he was since he has ignored the transfer market.
ccolley68
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AgDad121619 said:

ccolley68 said:

AgDad121619 said:

" He has built a new-school contender in a decidedly old-school way: coaching the players he already has until they're good enough to win a championship."

Except he hasn't been relevant since he took this stance. And right now , success this year is only projected.


I would give anything for the Aggies to be as irrelevant as Dabo's Clemson teams.
I would agree if you are talking pre- open market on players but they have been been 3-4 loss per year team in ACC since 2021. I think we could do the same or better against that same gauntlet of teams. Point being is he isn't having the success he was since he has ignored the transfer market.


God our fans can be delusional at times. In the last 10 years, he's won 2 national titles, played for another, won the conference 8 times, and had double digit wins every year but one. We on the other hand, have had ONE double digit win season since 1998, haven't won our conference since 1998, and haven't even been in the conversation for a national title in my lifetime.

If you want to just go back just to 2018, when the portal started and Dabo took his stance against transfers, they have won a title, played for another title, and had 2 CFP appearances, finished top 10 3 times, too 15 another 3 times, won their conference 3 times, and been runner up in their conference 3 times. Worst year was 9-4 with a Gator Bowl win and top 20 finish.

You can make the case the ACC isn't great I guess, but it's not like when we were in the Big XII we were any better than now, so that argument doesn't hold much water.

Dabo is a good guy, who runs his program his way and has he'd massive success. We haven't done diddly squat since the turn of the century, but we act like he's lost a step because his last national championship was a few years ago. Give me a break.
rootube
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Law Of The Quad said:

WSJ suggesting Dabo's patience will payoff, that his well developed players and chemistry will beat transfers.
Coach Elko seems to be trying to do both.

https://www.wsj.com/sports/football/clemson-dabo-swinney-bbd418f0?st=KUG1NQ&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink


I didn't read the article but someone should tell the WSJ that OSU's talent purchase strategy has already paid off. Dabo is still TBD.
TexanJeff
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They both have NCs

I don't care how we get one as long as we get one before I die
Nothing says excellence like a Blue Diamond
PascalsWager
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Ohio State is the easiest job in the country; nothing else is even close.

In the 12 or 16 team playoff era, they're the one team that will be in the playoff EVERY SINGLE YEAR regardless of who their coach is.

So for Ryan Day to be an impressive outlier, he'd have to win 3 national titles in a row. COULD happen but seems unlikely.
Emilio Fantastico
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You're missing the point. Dabo refused to play the transfer portal game when it went wide open and has gone from winning 2 championships and being a playoff regular to losing 3-4 games a year playing a pathetic ACC schedule.

Nobody is denying what he did pre-portal. But the game has changed.
LB12Diamond
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No one's missing the point you are stating. We just don't think it's that big of a deal. The Bama teams Dabo beat to win it all were more impressive than any team Ohio State beat last year.

Dabo having to replace coordinators have hurt him the past few years but the team this year looks very solid.
Iraq2xVeteran
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I read this WSJ article yesterday. The main point of the article is that Dabo Swinney is continuing to recruit players from high school and develop them to maintain continuity. That old-school approach gives Clemson gives them a big advantage because transfers at other schools have to learn the playbook and develop Chemistry.

Sparkie
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LB12Diamond said:

No one's missing the point you are stating. We just don't think it's that big of a deal. The Bama teams Dabo beat to win it all were more impressive than any team Ohio State beat last year.

Dabo having to replace coordinators have hurt him the past few years but the team this year looks very solid.
maybe he won't lose 4 games this year.
Haleyscomet50
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Just look at well he is still recruiting since NIL. Clemson is a nothing school the only reason they go is Dabo. Look at his guys in the pros he doesn't get the credit he deserves as a high level recruiter. He missed on one qb and it set his program back two years. His recruiting strategy is loyalty he shows it to his guys and it's paid off. How else can you convince 5star players to take a major pay cut and come to Clemson. Day started on 3rd base Dabo starts from the parking lot.
HowdyTexasAggies
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Law Of The Quad said:

WSJ suggesting Dabo's patience will payoff, that his well developed players and chemistry will beat transfers.
Coach Elko seems to be trying to do both.

https://www.wsj.com/sports/football/clemson-dabo-swinney-bbd418f0?st=KUG1NQ&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink


God wants Dabo to win, he's said so many times.
QB1
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I'd rather have Dabo as a coach but he's crazy not to take transfers
Emilio Fantastico
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QB1 said:

I'd rather have Dabo as a coach but he's crazy not to take transfers

Agree. When you can use transfers to plug roster holes, you are a fool to not use them.
Imagine if he had gone out and got a top transfer QB when it became obvious that Ukelele was not the second coming of Trevor Lawrence.
Bunk Moreland
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Dabo is dipping his toes in finally. While he hasn't gone crazy in the portal, he got a couple of major transfers this past year. You can also tell the loyalty of his program building with the (lack of) transfer exits. They lose very few people, especially key people, to the portal each year.
Iraq2xVeteran
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Ryan Day had his players read a book. The volume he selected was "Chop Wood Carry Water: How to Fall In Love With the Process of Becoming Great." It isn't exactly "Anna Karenina." At a modest 118 pages, it's the kind of self-improvement manual that an enterprising salesman could finish on a flight from Dallas to Cincinnati.

But its messages, told through parables delivered by a Japanese master to a young American pupil, are clear. Excellence is a slog that requires consistent, tiring work. Setbacks are part of the process. Humbly committing to improvement is its own reward.

"Everybody focuses on that final result and what it looked like and all those things," Day said recently. "We needed to get back to the beginning of the processand focusing on the process and not necessarily focusing on the result."

The team read "Chop Wood Carry Water" in the lead-up to training camp. Players read a chapter a day, with TV monitors in the football facility displaying the one currently assigned. Then the team gathered daily while a player, coach or trainer explained what the chapter meant to them.

"I think even one time we had a nutritionist," senior linebacker Sonny Styles said. "So everyone was a part of this."

Although former Lakers coach Phil Jackson was famous for assigning books to his players, in college football it isn't typical. Steve Spurrier, who won the 1966 Heisman Trophy and coached at Duke, Florida and South Carolina, said he didn't know of a coach who did it.

But it isn't completely unheard of. Iowa State coach Matt Campbell had his team read "Chop Wood" before the 2018 season. The year before, his players read "Pound The Stone: 7 Lessons to Develop Grit on the Path to Mastery."

Both were written by Joshua Medcalf, a childhood fan of Michael Jordan who grew up to play soccer at Vanderbilt and Duke. Medcalf doesn't follow football, and had no idea that Ohio State players were reading his book.

"One of the biggest challenges whenever you have won is that winning is a great deodorant," Medcalf said. "It covers up a lot of stuff but it doesn't fix it. So it's really important to, every single day, get up and chop the wood and carry the water."

Ohio State Football's Radical Offseason Workout: Reading a Book - WSJ
He is Ass My Dude
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AGDAD14 said:

I would rather play for Dabo for free, than get paid to play for Day.


Easy to say until Day is waving a few million in your face.
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