oh no said:

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AustinScubaAg said:

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really has not been what you need from a true #1

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our problem, however, is that neither has Steffen, Freese, Horvath, Slonina (yet), Sean Johnson, etc...

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Exactly. None have looked great and Turner is not even playing.

Cavan Sullivan (15) has scored his first goal for #ManCity, just 16 minutes after coming on for his debut in the U21s pre-season friendly vs Buxton! 🇺🇸⚽️

— City Xtra (@City_Xtra) July 26, 2025

Looks like Turner is signing a 3 year deal with Lyon but will be loaned to New England immediately on a 1 year loan.

good. he'll play every minute of every match leading up to next summer.

Can we talk about US Soccer Federation getting rid of the US Soccer Development Academy that Jurgen built up and turning youth development over to MLS academies several years ago?

MLS clubs can have three designated players who make more than the salary cap. How many DPs are actually American right now? Hardly any I'm guessing.

Further, MLS clubs can have 8 foreign players, so theoretically the majority of each squad (at least the dudes on the bench and a couple of regular starters) should always be American (especially most of the goalies) and hopefully many of them are home-grown from their youth academy if they're doing it right.

But 1) MLS squads are recruiting young foreign players who may become American but are eligible for other counties internationally, and

2) MLS clubs can trade their 8 foreign player designations so you end up with some MLS clubs with a starting 11 that looks like this:



Is this helping the popularity of the sport so more American athletes play and keep playing soccer? Is scouting the pool of American youth talent easier or better for USYNT and ultimately creating a better a USMNT pool under this MLS next academy system? I would argue that our player pool is going the wrong way, stemming from DA going away, but a bad tv contract for MLS hurts and the MLS foreign and designated players, while possibly helping the MLS improve its overall product and competitiveness, does not help the USMNT at all- it fact it hurts.

I agree these are good questions and I look forward to the discussion but I'd like to see this topic in its own thread, if you don't mind.

I've been *****ing about this all season.

Young Americans, espcially home grown, are cheap. But they pay more for foreign players, so even in our domestic league, a tie goes to the guy that is paid more.

i also think all these high profile investors including Hollywood celebrities and famous other sport athletes are being advised to invest in money-losing operations with mostly intangible assets (like contracts) such as MLS clubs as a tax offset.

(Will Ferrell, Matthew McConaughey, James Hardin, Kevin Durant, Patrick Mahomes, Russell Wilson, David Beckham, Magic Johnson, Oscar de la Hoya, Nomar Garciapar/Mia Hamm, etc. etc. etc. )

...so when most of the owners are mostly just in it to lose money, it can't be a good recipe for the sport in general. Granted, they are investing real money into these MLS programs where some of their assets are not taxed to offset other investments that make highly taxed income or capital gains, and they can one day sell their MLS investment potentially for a gain, it just doesn't align with the growth of the sport that fans want and USSF depends on for competitiveness.

oh no said:

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good. he'll play every minute of every match leading up to next summer.

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Will he? Is he better than Ivacic that starts for them now and takes up an International spot for NE???

oh damn. I don't know. I just assumed. you obviously know more about New England Revolution and their roster than I do.

Rudyjax said:

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I've been *****ing about this all season.

Young Americans, espcially home grown, are cheap. But they pay more for foreign players, so even in our domestic league, a tie goes to the guy that is paid more.

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I'll say this from a different perspective.

Teams in MLS that play young Americans are usually at the bottom of the table, or barely fighting for a playoff spot. Houston, RSL, FC Dallas, NYRB, Atlanta, etc.. When those young Americans are transferred out, hopefully that money from the transfer is put back into the team.

For example. Atlanta transferred Caleb Wiley out and brought in Latte Lah and others. It hasn't worked out. NYRB plays young Americans in their defense Kyle Duncan, the Nealis brothers, John Tolkin (I dont rate him highly but some Euro team paid for him so whatever). NYRBs defense isn't that good. FCD has a long string of young Americans transferred to Europe. Some worked out well and are current USMNT player (McKennie, Zendejas, Richards, Pepi, Tessmann, Ferreira (Qatar), Zimmerman (stretch I know), some are floating in Europe (Reynolds, Che, and others are back in MLS (Cannon, Cappis, Pomykal, etc.). Diego Luna is just clicking with RSL and getting into the B/C of the USMNT.

Contrary, teams that stock themselves with internationals tend to do well in MLS. Columbus had Cucho and Rossi and a backline full of internationals. Nagbe, for whatever reason, didn't want to be on the USMNT or move to Europe. Now they have Gazdag. San Jose has gone from bottom to fighting for a playoff spot. Seattle always has quality internationals. The list goes on.

Bottom line, if you want to win in MLS, you get internationals. If you want to lose in MLS, you play young Americans and try to transfer them to make money.

jessexy said:

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Rudyjax said:

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I've been *****ing about this all season.

Young Americans, espcially home grown, are cheap. But they pay more for foreign players, so even in our domestic league, a tie goes to the guy that is paid more.

---

I'll say this from a different perspective.

Teams in MLS that play young Americans are usually at the bottom of the table, or barely fighting for a playoff spot. Houston, RSL, FC Dallas, NYRB, Atlanta, etc.. When those young Americans are transferred out, hopefully that money from the transfer is put back into the team.

For example. Atlanta transferred Caleb Wiley out and brought in Latte Lah and others. It hasn't worked out. NYRB plays young Americans in their defense Kyle Duncan, the Nealis brothers, John Tolkin (I dont rate him highly but some Euro team paid for him so whatever). NYRBs defense isn't that good. FCD has a long string of young Americans transferred to Europe. Some worked out well and are current USMNT player (McKennie, Zendejas, Richards, Pepi, Tessmann, Ferreira (Qatar), Zimmerman (stretch I know), some are floating in Europe (Reynolds, Che, and others are back in MLS (Cannon, Cappis, Pomykal, etc.). Diego Luna is just clicking with RSL and getting into the B/C of the USMNT.

Contrary, teams that stock themselves with internationals tend to do well in MLS. Columbus had Cucho and Rossi and a backline full of internationals. Nagbe, for whatever reason, didn't want to be on the USMNT or move to Europe. Now they have Gazdag. San Jose has gone from bottom to fighting for a playoff spot. Seattle always has quality internationals. The list goes on.

Bottom line, if you want to win in MLS, you get internationals. If you want to lose in MLS, you play young Americans and try to transfer them to make money.

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FC Dallas didn't play the young guys until they were bottom of the table.

yeah; MLS teams can do what they want or whatever they think is best for themselves with their academies/home-growns as well as their first team rosters/contracts. That's fine. Chances are, they will develop some promising American talent that the USMNT will be able to use. ..and if MLS exporting them overseas works out for the club's financials and the player's development, great.

It's just not going to align all that well for USSF a lot of the time as MLS clubs have different goals and objectives and not a ton of incentive to develop home grown American talent. I've seen it first hand where Austin FC and Dynamo academies have brought in youth academy players from Mexico.. so it will be "home grown" by the club, but not helping USSF... so when USSF decided to get rid of the DA and rely on MLS academies for youth development, they can't be too surprised when they figure out the USMNT player pool peaked about 5 years ago and has been on a downward trajectory ever since.

Rudyjax said:

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jessexy said:

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Rudyjax said:

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I've been *****ing about this all season.

Young Americans, espcially home grown, are cheap. But they pay more for foreign players, so even in our domestic league, a tie goes to the guy that is paid more.

---

I'll say this from a different perspective.

Teams in MLS that play young Americans are usually at the bottom of the table, or barely fighting for a playoff spot. Houston, RSL, FC Dallas, NYRB, Atlanta, etc.. When those young Americans are transferred out, hopefully that money from the transfer is put back into the team.

For example. Atlanta transferred Caleb Wiley out and brought in Latte Lah and others. It hasn't worked out. NYRB plays young Americans in their defense Kyle Duncan, the Nealis brothers, John Tolkin (I dont rate him highly but some Euro team paid for him so whatever). NYRBs defense isn't that good. FCD has a long string of young Americans transferred to Europe. Some worked out well and are current USMNT player (McKennie, Zendejas, Richards, Pepi, Tessmann, Ferreira (Qatar), Zimmerman (stretch I know), some are floating in Europe (Reynolds, Che, and others are back in MLS (Cannon, Cappis, Pomykal, etc.). Diego Luna is just clicking with RSL and getting into the B/C of the USMNT.

Contrary, teams that stock themselves with internationals tend to do well in MLS. Columbus had Cucho and Rossi and a backline full of internationals. Nagbe, for whatever reason, didn't want to be on the USMNT or move to Europe. Now they have Gazdag. San Jose has gone from bottom to fighting for a playoff spot. Seattle always has quality internationals. The list goes on.

Bottom line, if you want to win in MLS, you get internationals. If you want to lose in MLS, you play young Americans and try to transfer them to make money.

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FC Dallas didn't play the young guys until they were bottom of the table.

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Well that's not true.
Ferreira played his entire career with FCD until this season in Seattle.
Pepi won the 2nd division title with them and was signed to FCD midseason. Then transferred shortly after. .
Tessmann was signed for one season and transferred shortly after (maybe midseason).
Cannon played 2-3 season after a season in college and transferred during Covid season.
Reynolds was transferred during Covid too after balling out after replacing Cannon
Zendejas signed really young and transferred to Mexico before playing much for FCD.
Zimmerman started for 2 seasons before being traded within MLS
McKennie and Richards went straight to Europe (both Germany)

FC Dallas is just always at the bottom of the table so you don't notice the young kids playing.

oh no said:

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yeah; MLS teams can do what they want or whatever they think is best for themselves with their academies/home-growns as well as their first team rosters/contracts. That's fine. Chances are, they will develop some promising American talent that the USMNT will be able to use. ..and if MLS exporting them overseas works out for the club's financials and the player's development, great.

It's just not going to align all that well for USSF a lot of the time as MLS clubs have different goals and objectives and not a ton of incentive to develop home grown American talent. I've seen it first hand where Austin FC and Dynamo academies have brought in youth academy players from Mexico.. so it will be "home grown" by the club, but not helping USSF... so when USSF decided to get rid of the DA and rely on MLS academies for youth development, they can't be too surprised when they figure out the USMNT player pool peaked about 5 years ago and has been on a downward trajectory ever since.

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USSF DA was going away no matter what. The Federation was broke cuz they were floating the NWSL, paying all those players salaries and the whole FIFA scandal with Chuck Blazer stealing so much money. Then the lawsuits with concussions and the USWNT equal pay thing. And then, after all that, the gender equity lawsuits with the male coaches and female players situations.

USSF DA added the girls' DA and lost that battle with ECNL. So they gave up on the girls. MLS was withdrawing all its academy teams to play in what is not called MLS Next. MLS was concerned with the "level of competition" in DA but they also withdrew all their 2nd teams out of USL and USL1 to form what is now MLS Next Pro. MLS was basically taking control of it's whole team structure and leaving USSF to do whatever.

jessexy said:

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Rudyjax said:

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jessexy said:

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Rudyjax said:

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'mI've been *****ing about this all season.

Young Americans, espcially home grown, are cheap. But they pay more for foreign players, so even in our domestic league, a tie goes to the guy that is paid more.

---

I'll say this from a different perspective.

Teams in MLS that play young Americans are usually at the bottom of the table, or barely fighting for a playoff spot. Houston, RSL, FC Dallas, NYRB, Atlanta, etc.. When those young Americans are transferred out, hopefully that money from the transfer is put back into the team.

For example. Atlanta transferred Caleb Wiley out and brought in Latte Lah and others. It hasn't worked out. NYRB plays young Americans in their defense Kyle Duncan, the Nealis brothers, John Tolkin (I dont rate him highly but some Euro team paid for him so whatever). NYRBs defense isn't that good. FCD has a long string of young Americans transferred to Europe. Some worked out well and are current USMNT player (McKennie, Zendejas, Richards, Pepi, Tessmann, Ferreira (Qatar), Zimmerman (stretch I know), some are floating in Europe (Reynolds, Che, and others are back in MLS (Cannon, Cappis, Pomykal, etc.). Diego Luna is just clicking with RSL and getting into the B/C of the USMNT.

Contrary, teams that stock themselves with internationals tend to do well in MLS. Columbus had Cucho and Rossi and a backline full of internationals. Nagbe, for whatever reason, didn't want to be on the USMNT or move to Europe. Now they have Gazdag. San Jose has gone from bottom to fighting for a playoff spot. Seattle always has quality internationals. The list goes on.

Bottom line, if you want to win in MLS, you get internationals. If you want to lose in MLS, you play young Americans and try to transfer them to make money.

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FC Dallas didn't play the young guys until they were bottom of the table.

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Well that's not true.
Ferreira played his entire career with FCD until this season in Seattle.
Pepi won the 2nd division title with them and was signed to FCD midseason. Then transferred shortly after. .
Tessmann was signed for one season and transferred shortly after (maybe midseason).
Cannon played 2-3 season after a season in college and transferred during Covid season.
Reynolds was transferred during Covid too after balling out after replacing Cannon
Zendejas signed really young and transferred to Mexico before playing much for FCD.
Zimmerman started for 2 seasons before being traded within MLS
McKennie and Richards went straight to Europe (both Germany)

FC Dallas is just always at the bottom of the table so you don't notice the young kids playing.

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I'm not talking about the past. I'm talking about this season. What they did in the past is 1000% irrelevant.

You're right. They got a first-year coach that doesn't wanna lose games. he's playing young players, just not the kids. But FCD has relied on 21-24 year old cuz they're kids are 17-20 year olds this season. The B team has all the 17-20 year olds this year after winning it all last year.

I think FCD just signed 3 players off the B team onto the team. and transferred the B team starting GK to Tigres or Club America.

why the USSF got rid of DA (they were broke) is known, but they paraded it like it was a good thing, and it hasn't been, IMO.

oh no said:

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oh damn. I don't know. I just assumed. you obviously know more about New England Revolution and their roster than I do.

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I would think Gio would have to take up a DP spot for any team that signs him though I think there is some Young DP slot as well that he would probably qualify for.

jessexy said:

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You're right. They got a first-year coach that doesn't wanna lose games. he's playing young players, just not the kids. But FCD has relied on 21-24 year old cuz they're kids are 17-20 year olds this season. The B team has all the 17-20 year olds this year after winning it all last year.

I think FCD just signed 3 players off the B team onto the team. and transferred the B team starting GK to Tigres or Club America.

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About 4-6 years or so ago we played all our young kids AND had success doing it.
Then a lot of them were sold to Europe, or had bad injury luck like Pomykal.

Then I honestly think we have had the last 3-4 years of not really playing our young homegrowns much, and just bringing in International players that didnt play well instead.

and this year I think Rudy is right, where we had a rough start but have actually been anywhere from 6th-12th for most of the season.
We DID start actually bringing in homegrowns and playing them again though, which he is also right about.

I think MLS has always had a dilemna about do we want to be a league that grows the American game, or do we want to try to be a top league in the world.
You could eventually become a top league by prioritizing the homegrown players, but you could definitely get there by increasing spending. MLS has historically been slowly controlling its increase in spending, which is a major reason why it didnt just fail quickly like past soccer leagues.

Personally, I think we could do something like England has done in the past as well as other European leagues, and require a certain amount of Americans. Im not sure where they are at now, but I share Rudy's concern about where the league is heading.
I do think using Miami is not really representative of most of the league, but they ARE a good example of where it could be heading if steps arent taken. I also dont think there is any world where they let the MLS into champions league, so I feel like it would be hard to ever truly become a top league.

jessexy said:

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You're right. They got a first-year coach that doesn't wanna lose games. he's playing young players, just not the kids. But FCD has relied on 21-24 year old cuz they're kids are 17-20 year olds this season. The B team has all the 17-20 year olds this year after winning it all last year.

I think FCD just signed 3 players off the B team onto the team. and transferred the B team starting GK to Tigres or Club America.

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Right. Because they're low on the table.

https://3rddegree.net/is-the-fc-dallas-academy-still-good?amp=1

I found this to be a timely article given what we were talking about this week. Lot of good examples and thoughts

Tim Weah has joined Marseille, making his return to Ligue 1. #USMNT https://t.co/RprVCUIqQC

— SBI Soccer (@SBISoccer) August 6, 2025

TRM said:

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Tim Weah has joined Marseille, making his return to Ligue 1. #USMNT https://t.co/RprVCUIqQC

— SBI Soccer (@SBISoccer) August 6, 2025

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Hopefully he plays.

Rudyjax said:

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Sargent just committed highway robbery for a goal.

been getting into Norwich City cuz they have an American (Josh Sargent) and look at this goal he just scored 😭 pic.twitter.com/cmfccKMy01

— Kyros (@photolynx_) August 9, 2025

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Eh, I still like Ageymang. /Poch