126233 said:

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EclipseAG,

Thank you for your wonderful multi-post analysis on this issue. What's interesting to me is that, given the clear evidence that apartments eventually lead to decline (both demographic and socioeconomic), why do residents allow this?

Plano residents for instance valiantly fought and sued the city over the "Plano Tomorrow" plan in 2020, which wanted to turn every remaining vacant plot of land in Plano into a high density multi-family or mixed use development.

The leftist race-baiting media of course immediately insinuated that Plano's rejection of "Plano Tomorrow" was due to racism, while ignoring valid complaints about density, traffic, a diminished suburban character, and the very strong correlation between increased apartments and declining schools (economically disadvantaged students perform poorly overall).

Only problem was this fight came way too late, since tens of thousands of apartments were built in Plano between 2010 and 2020. No matter what developers or city officials say about apartments being needed, they ALWAYS lead to brisk demographic shifts and decline. Residents know this, and yet, rather than fight to preserve their neighborhoods character, they just up and leave once too many poor people start moving in. This trend is already playing out in other Collin County suburbs like Allen, McKinney, and current suburban darling Frisco, which is hot now, but probably won't be 10 years.

Southlake is the only suburb in DFW which has fought successfully to ensure that no apartment complexes, even ones billing themselves as "high end" ever get built there. Southlake may be the first DFW suburb to stay nice indefinitely because of its strict ban on apartments.

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126233 said:

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So I grew up in Plano. In 1980, Plano was 96% white and solidly upper middle class. By 2000, Plano, particularly the west side, was the jewel of suburban Dallas affluence, and still 78% white as a whole. During this era Plano was nationally recognized as one the best places to live in the country and named the richest city with over 250,000 people in the US.

Today, Plano is poorer, aging, decaying in certain areas, has been hemorrhaging white people (now just 48% white!!) and is no longer the "it suburb" of DFW. That distinction has moved to Frisco and Southlake.

Plano's slide into mediocrity and decay isn't unique, it's a pattern that repeats itself over and over both in DFW and Houston. Suburbs start out nice, desirable, and sought after, where all the middle and upper middle class white people scramble to buy houses, and then suddenly, they all abandon these cities for the newest, shiniest suburb up the road. Plano is unique in that it's so far the wealthiest and most highly regarded suburb to undergo this transformation in DFW at least. It also had a longer desirability life span compared to other suburbs like Irving, Farmers Branch, Richardson, Garland, or Carrollton, which were hot and then not within 10 years.

My question isn't why this happens… that is obvious. Apartments get built, poor minorities move in, and white people leave. My question is WHY do residents let this happen to their communities? I've never seen this pattern of "disposable" suburbs outside of Texas.

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126233 said:

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I know Indians are the wealthiest. They are well represented in still-hot Frisco and Southlake. The fact that Indians are on average wealthier than whites doesn't diminish the fact that white people are the majority (for now at least), and when they move out en masse, it's a death sentence for suburbs and they start to slide downhill.

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126233 said:

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Yeah, I do go straight to the apartments, because every time they show up…especially in huge numbers… crime rate spikes, schools tank, median income falls, prestige erodes, and the entire character of the area shifts, downward. This happens reliably and predictably, every time. It's a pattern anyone with eyes and a spine can clearly see.

So spare me the tired "you can't have it both ways" routine. The real double standard? Sanctimonious libs who clutch their pearls about housing equity while living in million-dollar ZIP codes with highly restrictive zoning laws.

They'll virtue signal all day long about the need for affordable housing, then suddenly turn into zoning hawks and environmental crusaders the second someone proposes multifamily within ten miles of their kid's prep school.

You think Martha's Vineyard, Weston, or Chevy Chase want low-income complexes? Hell no. They just want us to take them, so they can keep patting themselves on the back at dinner parties without ever having to personally deal with the consequences of their destructive policies.

Are you actually denying the link between dense, low-income housing and suburban decline? Or are you just another smug lib running defense for policies you'd never tolerate in your own backyard?

Spare us the moral high ground. You don't believe your own bullsh*t either.

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samurai_science said:

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126233 said:

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I know Indians are the wealthiest. They are well represented in still-hot Frisco and Southlake. The fact that Indians are on average wealthier than whites doesn't diminish the fact that white people are the majority (for now at least), and when they move out en masse, it's a death sentence for suburbs and they start to slide downhill.

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Culture, Indians vote mostly for Democrats

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