https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/razor-bumps-can-now-get-you-kicked-out-of-the-marines-black-men-will-likely-suffer-the-most/ar-AA1FAmXX?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=351d64fb773f4008b616ff25accbcf32&ei=58

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Black men will likely suffer the most...The US Marine Corps is eliminating waivers that previously allowed service members who suffer from razor bumps to forgo shaving an action critics say disproportionately affects Black men.

The US military requires all male service members to be clean-shaven. However, the military introduced shaving wavers in the 1970s to address genetic skin conditions like pseudofolliculitis barbae, better known as razor bumps or ingrown hairs.

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I remember from 94 until about 2002, this was practiced. Marines who suffered from this condition were sent to medical and a treatment was began. If the treatment did not work after a set time, they were med-boarded. this was usually a case-by-case basis. I distinctly remember several lite green Marines being med-boarded for excessive acne when treatment did nothing for their condition. The "Black men will likely suffer the most" yet again, shows the lack of journalistic integrity. Just more division IMHO.

Any Company Commanders or Battalion Commanders from that time period have any experience in dealing with this?

I wish the Army would do the same. Shaving profiles are bull *****

I joined in. 1967, shaving profiles were a thing back then. And yes, unless I completely forgot it was 100% black soldiers.

Hincemm said:

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this is esp abused by airmen imo

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It is an epidemic on Dyess. I would say 85% are white airmen walking around with a full beard.

usmcbrooks said:

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Hincemm said:

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this is esp abused by airmen imo

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It is an epidemic on Dyess. I would say 85% are white airmen walking around with a full beard.

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Well Dyess is an Air Force Base.

OldArmyCT said:

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usmcbrooks said:

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Hincemm said:

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this is esp abused by airmen imo

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It is an epidemic on Dyess. I would say 85% are white airmen walking around with a full beard.

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Well Dyess is an Air Force Base.

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They sell MRE's in the commissary, that's the most Air Force thing I have ever seen.

Cheaper than buying it from on-line or a surplus store.

Y'all are just jealous. Y'alls poor choice of service isn't the Air Force's fault!

When I was a Drill Sergeant I would not let the black privates get a shaving profile. I told them to shave every two days with a new Bic razor each time, only going straight down, not against their beards grain and only one pass. Never had a problem with razor bumps on them.

I have been around some black Soldiers who brush their face daily with a short, but stiff bristle brush that would help keep their hairs from turning back into their skin. They shaved every day with no issues. Anecdotal evidence for sure but its possible for most if they take care of their face.

Obviously based on previous posts here that this will be an unpopular opinion, but I think that service members should be able to wear a neatly and professionally groomed beard.

Almost all partner militaries we work with allow this, and it doesn't do anything to reduce war fighter ethos or mission capability. Old arguments about gas mask seal are dumb. If we deploy to an area under LEGITIMATE threat of chemical warfare, then we can think about the repercussions of beards and gas masks, but in garrison, who the f cares about a professional looking beard.

Allowing females to wear pony tails didn't suddenly give China the upper hand, and beards won't either.

I shake my head at the stupid **** our leaders seem to worry about when I see stories like this. Kicking otherwise qualified and highly trained marines out because of shaving waivers DOES have a negative impact on readiness. Units now need to backfill on short notice, and depending on the career field this isn't an easy or quick process.

USA*** said:

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Y'all are just jealous. Y'alls poor choice of service isn't the Air Force's fault!

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The other services should not be haters. Our country needs smart people and the Air Force is the source of the US military smart people.

My dad was old school to the core. Was in the 5th Cav at Ft. Clark when it was still truly mounted. Then AAC for duration of WWII. He said men grew beards cause it was an excuse that they are too damn lazy to shave. To him it was a discipline thing. My dad throughout his whole life shaved every single day that I remember.
He had a saying that I never forgot ….. He said, and I quote……" I'll be damned if I'm going to cultivate something on my face that grows wild around my ass h…."

You don't need a scientific study when there is clear empirical evidence. Watch someone with a beard take a fit test. They'll fail. Then have them shave and retake the test. They'll pass. The military is far from the only organization to enforce grooming standards when wearing respiratory protection.

And sure, a nearly trimmed beard can be hygienic. But try maintaining a hygienic, neatly trimmed beard in the field for a month during active operations. It's not going to happen.

I made sales calls at Sterling Chemicals in Texas City for years. Anyone with a beard was prohibited from entering the plant because of respirator fit issues. The guards even had razors and shaving cream so one could share it off to enter the plant. Of course in all the years I went there regularly, I never did a respiratory fit test.

maverick2076 said:

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AggieEP said:

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https://taskandpurpose.com/news/military-beards-break-gas-mask-seal/

Pertinent to the discussion

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It's not pertinent to the discussion. The doctor is a moron. NFPA requires it as well. That's why firefighters have badass mustaches and not beards.

Being clean shaven is about more than just gas masks. It's also about hygiene in field conditions.

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I must have missed all those SOCOM operators dying of poor hygiene and being unable to wear a gas mask.

It's also amusing on a joint NATO base seeing every other country's service members have beards save for us. I guess those gas masks are country specific.

You're talking about a job that requires daily protection from dangerous airborne chemicals. I get taking extreme precaution considering the fact that exposure is constant.

When talking about the military, we're talking about an extreme hypothetical situation WRT gas masks.

Also I'm about 99.9% sure that if the enemy dropped a chemical agent on pretty much any base (excluding our forces in South Korea) we'd all just die anyway because we don't even have enough chem gear to outfit our formations. Gas mask seals are pretty close to the bottom of my list of worries because there is no plan in place to get gear in case of an emergency. Last time I was deployed, I was in an area with fairly consistent indirect fire from Houthis, and it was hilarious (and sad) to watch some of my colleagues struggle to even get their helmets and protective vests on (we were issued the crappy heavy vests. One guy accidentally pulled the quick release cord on the way to the bunker. Maybe worst of all, we were ordered not to open our chem gear bags because the AF intended to pass them on to the next rotation of deployers. So even if I wanted to practice fitting my gear, I was ordered not to do that.

The AF knows how unprepared we are, and has started to take steps to remedy some of this, but the fact remains that my gas mask properly fitting to my face is unlikely to be a concern of mine any time in the future because I'll be long dead before I have a mask to put on.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9542990/

https://www.sciencealert.com/just-how-dirty-are-beards-heres-the-science


There is plenty of evidence that beards can increase skin fungus, disease, etc. Especially when they aren't regularly cared for..such as in field conditions.

There are lots of studies that show that beards are clean and sanitary…when washed, trimmed, and maintained properly. Which isn't happening in the field.

Denying shaving profiles doesn't discriminate against black soldiers. It discriminates against soldiers who cannot (or will not) maintain a clean shave. It doesn't matter what color their skin is.

And for the record, removing the DA photo requirement was a mistake, in my opinion. The presence of an up to date, correct DA photo shows attention to detail, pride in uniform and self-appearance, and the self-discipline to make sure that every part of a promotion packet is accurate and squared away. I never gave a crap about a soldier's skin color, but how they present themselves in uniform? That absolutely does matter.

Retired in March, so field conditions ranging from living in a tent and washing at the water buffalo (if I was lucky) to full on fob glamor life with latrine trailers and a CHU on my second deployment. Was an 88M driving across Iraq my first deployment, so basically a hobo, pissing in water bottles and sleeping in parking areas next to/on top of my HET.

And the dry shaving argument is ridiculous. You always have water, and you can just about always spare half a cup to shave with. On my first deployment, that shave was the best (and cleanest) part of my day. I'd throw one of those square water bottles in the dash of the truck in the morning and let the sun beat on it all day. After 12-16 hours on the road, we'd park, PMCS the trucks, and then I'd use that hot water to shave and wash my hair, even if I couldn't do anything more than that and baby wipe my junk.

I spent my first deployment at a small outpost in Diyala Province during the surge. We had zero running water burned our own **** and we still shaved every day or every other day. We'd rotate back to Warhorse for a day and half every 7/8 days mainly because our COP was too small for our whole battery, so one platoon would get to spend some time on the FOB. Water bottles for drinking, hygiene, hand washing, and baby wipes, hell we even washed clothes in buckets and had some clothes lines to dry stuff.