And even then - OKC let him go to LA without much of a fight. Caruso was a mega longshot to make it to the NBA... And even smaller-- the odds of securing a big contact and having a career over many years. And he did it! Credit to him.
Alex Caruso
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Last: 1 mo ago by Ag1188
NoahAg said:
I'll say it: If AC was black he would have been considered more of a NBA prospect at A&M.
I already said it earlier in the thread.
94chem,
That, sir, was the greatest post in the history of TexAgs. I salute you. -- Dough
That, sir, was the greatest post in the history of TexAgs. I salute you. -- Dough
I watched Caruso a lot while he was in college and had a strong opinion that he would never make it in the NBA and you guys were crazy to think he could. I was wrong.
That being said, 99% of players who show what he showed in college and have his college career never sniff a NBA court. He put in the work and became a completely different player. Not just increasing his athletic ability, but he changed everything about his game as well. Got rid of the lazy passes, plays 100% harder, improved his shot.
Caruso was not much of a college player. He was sloppy, lazy, couldn't shoot. He became a pretty dang good pro.
That being said, 99% of players who show what he showed in college and have his college career never sniff a NBA court. He put in the work and became a completely different player. Not just increasing his athletic ability, but he changed everything about his game as well. Got rid of the lazy passes, plays 100% harder, improved his shot.
Caruso was not much of a college player. He was sloppy, lazy, couldn't shoot. He became a pretty dang good pro.
Bolded the false stuffknoxtom said:
I watched Caruso a lot while he was in college and had a strong opinion that he would never make it in the NBA and you guys were crazy to think he could. I was wrong.
That being said, 99% of players who show what he showed in college and have his college career never sniff a NBA court. He put in the work and became a completely different player. Not just increasing his athletic ability, but he changed everything about his game as well. Got rid of the lazy passes, plays 100% harder, improved his shot.
Caruso was not much of a college player. He was sloppy, lazy, couldn't shoot as well as now. He became a pretty dang good pro.
Homeboy is making that cash money too.
Caruso was not much of a college player? I notice you didnt mention the other side of the ball, which is equally important and I think its a strong possibility that Alex Caruso is the best defensive guard that has played at A&M in this century. Its hard to make that claim without some of the data available for years prior to 2010, but I suspect he was actually better than say Dominique Kirk and other that had that rep then. It might not even be close.
On a similar note, Robert Williams is so far and away the best defensive player we've had in that period that its almost absurd.
On a similar note, Robert Williams is so far and away the best defensive player we've had in that period that its almost absurd.
GrayMatter said:Part of that is because he brings so many intangibles to the game. His value is not one that jumps off the screen like most players unless you are really watching. He excels at doing what others players don't like doing and has an elite basketball mind that has the ability to see all the nuances of the game.bobinator said:
Caruso is the reason why when anyone says anyone might play in the NBA the response is at least "I guess, maybe"
His path was so improbable that now it seems like anyone is at least possible
I would think he will get a chance to be a coach if he wants it because of these attributes.
A ton of us thought being a coach was going to be his path. But instead he's making 11ty million a year playing. Good for him, but anyone saying "I called it" is lying.
I thought he would be a good European player but admit I didn't see solid NBA player in him.Ol Jock 99 said:
A ton of us thought being a coach was going to be his path. But instead he's making 11ty million a year playing. Good for him, but anyone saying "I called it" is lying.
There's a few things here I think I'd argue.JJxvi said:
Caruso was not much of a college player? I notice you didnt mention the other side of the ball, which is equally important and I think its a strong possibility that Alex Caruso is the best defensive guard that has played at A&M in this century. Its hard to make that claim without some of the data available for years prior to 2010, but I suspect he was actually better than say Dominique Kirk and other that had that rep then. It might not even be close.
On a similar note, Robert Williams is so far and away the best defensive player we've had in that period that its almost absurd.
1) This isn't so much a disagreement because you only said it's a possibility that Caruso is the best, but defense is famously hard to quantify, especially in a defense like we played under Kennedy. It's pretty hard to individually evaluate players in a pack-line defense or any kind of zone/hybrid defense. It's easy to say now that Caruso was the best because he's obviously a high level NBA defender. But evaluating him as a college player versus say, Dexter Dennis or Quenton Jackson? I think those are similar-level defenders.
2) I think I'd disagree that Robert Williams is "so far and away the best defensive player we've had." I think he got to play a role that was exceptionally suited for what he was good at (blocking shots and getting up for rebounds) but I don't think he was a vastly better overall defender than quite a few guys we've had.
Caruso wasn't sloppy or lazy in college…I remember thinking he made a lot of great passes his teammates weren't ready for. And he was visibly a high-level effort player.
Unless it recently changed, he's the program all-time assists and steals leader. That's not really something you attribute to someone that wasn't very good.
Unless it recently changed, he's the program all-time assists and steals leader. That's not really something you attribute to someone that wasn't very good.
Yeah, what's funny is I remember at the time arguing with people that Caruso was WAY better than people gave him credit for being. A lot of folks acted like he was some kind of replacement level college player and of course he wasn't one of the TexAgs fabled "true point guards."
I didn't think he'd be anything close to this level of NBA player, or even an NBA player at all, but he was vastly underestimated by our own fans as a college player.
I didn't think he'd be anything close to this level of NBA player, or even an NBA player at all, but he was vastly underestimated by our own fans as a college player.
I mean yeah its a team sport, but its hard to ignore Robert Williams had a ridiculous efficiency rating compared to the rest of the team, implying other teams weren't scoring on us when he was on the floor, while the whole rest of the team was 10-15 points higher.
Maybe we played to his strengths (and big men shot blockers are generally the best defensive players to have, most important to the team defense overall), but also its clear from the team efficiency numbers that his presence on the floor was a huge factor on that side of the ball. His DRTG was at 90 in 2017-18 (lowest of any significant player for us that I saw for any year, including years where the whole team was holding people down in the 90s). Tyler Davis rated right at 100 that year.
Maybe we played to his strengths (and big men shot blockers are generally the best defensive players to have, most important to the team defense overall), but also its clear from the team efficiency numbers that his presence on the floor was a huge factor on that side of the ball. His DRTG was at 90 in 2017-18 (lowest of any significant player for us that I saw for any year, including years where the whole team was holding people down in the 90s). Tyler Davis rated right at 100 that year.
For the record, I also didn't expect Caruso to have the kind of professional career he's had.
(He was guarding DeAndre Jordan in last night's game.)
(He was guarding DeAndre Jordan in last night's game.)
As far as I can tell Alex Caruso led our rotation in DRTG for 4 years, and there are only two other season where that distinction went to a guard and not a forward (Q in 21-22 and Phelps last year)
Yeah, and I'm definitely obviously not saying he's bad, he's definitely among the best, but I just think defensive data is really tricky. For example I imagine the fact that Tyler Davis usually guarded (and thus usually blocked out on the boards) the other teams biggest player made Williams a vastly more effective defensive rebounder than if he were playing alongside someone who wasn't as big or as strong as Davis. (who himself was also a vastly underrated player.) And the fact that we could use Davis to neutralize the other team's best post threat also freed up Williams to go after help side blocks and that sort of thing without leaving the paint completely unprotected.
Williams was an elite defensive player, I just don't think he was necessarily in a class all by himself of our recent players. I know acting like Billy Kennedy could coach a little bit is frowned upon by some folks, but he fit Williams into an absolutely perfect role on defense. If we could have let Pharrel Payne play a well defined role like that he'd be going pro now instead of us having to see him play for Maryland next year.
Williams was an elite defensive player, I just don't think he was necessarily in a class all by himself of our recent players. I know acting like Billy Kennedy could coach a little bit is frowned upon by some folks, but he fit Williams into an absolutely perfect role on defense. If we could have let Pharrel Payne play a well defined role like that he'd be going pro now instead of us having to see him play for Maryland next year.
It's insane they can't just admit that their evaluation skills are terrible. And you are dead on. Caruso saw the court as freshman better than any of his teammates. He made the passes, was in the right place, and nobody else ever really matched him or followed through. Once some talent came in around him, people say Alex suddenly got better. In truth, people started converting on his setups that were always there. He's probably the most intuitive player we've ever had. Just had a natural feel for the game you cant teach. NBA drafts measurables and has a TERRIBLE hit rate. Meanwhile, Alex finds his way in has incredible success. You would think that would be a lesson, but it never is.Lance Uppercut said:
Caruso wasn't sloppy or lazy in college…I remember thinking he made a lot of great passes his teammates weren't ready for. And he was visibly a high-level effort player.
Unless it recently changed, he's the program all-time assists and steals leader. That's not really something you attribute to someone that wasn't very good.
I've wondered for a while when someone would figure out a way to measure spatial awareness, whether using VR or some kind of tracking system or something, but it's the hardest thing to measure and yet it's the most important thing in basketball and in certain positions in football. It's why it's hard to draft basketball players and quarterbacks.
There are ways it manifests in players that truly have it at an elite level. One of the most common is players that look faster than they really are. I think that was the case for Taylor in basketball and Johnny Manziel in football. It's also one of the reasons I like Reed even though he has some fundamentals he needs to work on. But he seems to have that similar ability to feel where people are around him. Not at the same level Manziel did, he had an almost supernatural ability to not only feel how people around him were moving but to also use that movement against them.
But it was obvious that Caruso had it even in high school. The question for me was always whether the rest of his game could catch up to that skill.
There are ways it manifests in players that truly have it at an elite level. One of the most common is players that look faster than they really are. I think that was the case for Taylor in basketball and Johnny Manziel in football. It's also one of the reasons I like Reed even though he has some fundamentals he needs to work on. But he seems to have that similar ability to feel where people are around him. Not at the same level Manziel did, he had an almost supernatural ability to not only feel how people around him were moving but to also use that movement against them.
But it was obvious that Caruso had it even in high school. The question for me was always whether the rest of his game could catch up to that skill.
Crazy to think that we had Caruso and Manziel, two of the best "feel for the game" guys in A&M sports history, within a relatively short span of time.bobinator said:
I've wondered for a while when someone would figure out a way to measure spatial awareness, whether using VR or some kind of tracking system or something, but it's the hardest thing to measure and yet it's the most important thing in basketball and in certain positions in football. It's why it's hard to draft basketball players and quarterbacks.
There are ways it manifests in players that truly have it at an elite level. One of the most common is players that look faster than they really are. I think that was the case for Taylor in basketball and Johnny Manziel in football. It's also one of the reasons I like Reed even though he has some fundamentals he needs to work on. But he seems to have that similar ability to feel where people are around him. Not at the same level Manziel did, he had an almost supernatural ability to not only feel how people around him were moving but to also use that movement against them.
But it was obvious that Caruso had it even in high school. The question for me was always whether the rest of his game could catch up to that skill.
We've had some running backs who had it too, Spiller is one that always seemed to have that ability to move his body at just the right time to turn a two yard loss into a one yard gain and usually avoid taking big hits straight on.
It's hard a thing to measure, but someone who figures it out is going to be rich because it's the kind of thing that takes an athlete up a level (or several) from what the things that are easy to measure tell you about them.
It's hard a thing to measure, but someone who figures it out is going to be rich because it's the kind of thing that takes an athlete up a level (or several) from what the things that are easy to measure tell you about them.
Agreed. Altuve in baseball is a classic example. He has no business being a professional baseball player, but he grew up hitting bottle caps with a stick and just sees the ball ways most players will never be able to.bobinator said:
We've had some running backs who had it too, Spiller is one that always seemed to have that ability to move his body at just the right time to turn a two yard loss into a one yard gain and usually avoid taking big hits straight on.
It's hard a thing to measure, but someone who figures it out is going to be rich because it's the kind of thing that takes an athlete up a level (or several) from what the things that are easy to measure tell you about them.
Players have said that the "do not hit" jerseys on QB's prevented the staff from seeing how good Manziel was. He was so elusive that if they would have just allowed contact, nobody would have hit him then either.bobinator said:
I've wondered for a while when someone would figure out a way to measure spatial awareness, whether using VR or some kind of tracking system or something, but it's the hardest thing to measure and yet it's the most important thing in basketball and in certain positions in football. It's why it's hard to draft basketball players and quarterbacks.
There are ways it manifests in players that truly have it at an elite level. One of the most common is players that look faster than they really are. I think that was the case for Taylor in basketball and Johnny Manziel in football. It's also one of the reasons I like Reed even though he has some fundamentals he needs to work on. But he seems to have that similar ability to feel where people are around him. Not at the same level Manziel did, he had an almost supernatural ability to not only feel how people around him were moving but to also use that movement against them.
But it was obvious that Caruso had it even in high school. The question for me was always whether the rest of his game could catch up to that skill.
On Caruso, he did have a tendency to overplay passing lanes and get caught in no-man's land, giving up open 3's. That kind of free-lancing would have never been allowed by Buzz. Buzz's teams preferred to give up open 3's in normal rotation.
94chem,
That, sir, was the greatest post in the history of TexAgs. I salute you. -- Dough
That, sir, was the greatest post in the history of TexAgs. I salute you. -- Dough
Imagine Buzz's defense with guard length like House and Caruso though. That would have been wild.
Kliff said it at or around the Heisman ceremony that it was funny or something that when the whistle blew in practice that because Manziel would claim "they wouldn't have got me" and Kingsbury said that after we played some games he realized that yeah, they wouldn't have got him.94chem said:Players have said that the "do not hit" jerseys on QB's prevented the staff from seeing how good Manziel was. He was so elusive that if they would have just allowed contact, nobody would have hit him then either.bobinator said:
I've wondered for a while when someone would figure out a way to measure spatial awareness, whether using VR or some kind of tracking system or something, but it's the hardest thing to measure and yet it's the most important thing in basketball and in certain positions in football. It's why it's hard to draft basketball players and quarterbacks.
There are ways it manifests in players that truly have it at an elite level. One of the most common is players that look faster than they really are. I think that was the case for Taylor in basketball and Johnny Manziel in football. It's also one of the reasons I like Reed even though he has some fundamentals he needs to work on. But he seems to have that similar ability to feel where people are around him. Not at the same level Manziel did, he had an almost supernatural ability to not only feel how people around him were moving but to also use that movement against them.
But it was obvious that Caruso had it even in high school. The question for me was always whether the rest of his game could catch up to that skill.
On Caruso, he did have a tendency to overplay passing lanes and get caught in no-man's land, giving up open 3's. That kind of free-lancing would have never been allowed by Buzz. Buzz's teams preferred to give up open 3's in normal rotation.
A little different that when we're talking about athletes that maybe maximized their athletic ability with things that weren't measured but I always think about like JJ Watt, who also had some of these characteristics and then had the measurables also and therefore was just unstoppable.
bobinator said:
Imagine Buzz's defense with guard length like House and Caruso though. That would have been wild.
I think you're describing UH.
94chem,
That, sir, was the greatest post in the history of TexAgs. I salute you. -- Dough
That, sir, was the greatest post in the history of TexAgs. I salute you. -- Dough
I lold94chem said:Players have said that the "do not hit" jerseys on QB's prevented the staff from seeing how good Manziel was. He was so elusive that if they would have just allowed contact, nobody would have hit him then either.bobinator said:
I've wondered for a while when someone would figure out a way to measure spatial awareness, whether using VR or some kind of tracking system or something, but it's the hardest thing to measure and yet it's the most important thing in basketball and in certain positions in football. It's why it's hard to draft basketball players and quarterbacks.
There are ways it manifests in players that truly have it at an elite level. One of the most common is players that look faster than they really are. I think that was the case for Taylor in basketball and Johnny Manziel in football. It's also one of the reasons I like Reed even though he has some fundamentals he needs to work on. But he seems to have that similar ability to feel where people are around him. Not at the same level Manziel did, he had an almost supernatural ability to not only feel how people around him were moving but to also use that movement against them.
But it was obvious that Caruso had it even in high school. The question for me was always whether the rest of his game could catch up to that skill.
On Caruso, he did have a tendency to overplay passing lanes and get caught in no-man's land, giving up open 3's. That kind of free-lancing would have never been allowed by Buzz. Buzz's teams preferred to give up open 3's in normal rotation.
bobinator said:
Caruso is the reason why when anyone says anyone might play in the NBA the response is at least "I guess, maybe"
My approach is to make a few posts that say X player will never sniff an NBA roster and a few posts that state X player is a hall of fame lock. That way my bases are covered.
Except for that Thon Maker thread. I think I stuck with lol that guy sucks.
Caruso is an absolute beast today. Getting all the love at halftime.
BJM1781 said:
Caruso is an absolute beast today. Getting all the love at halftime.
Loved watching him defending Jokic.
Looked like a rat terrier fighting a St. Bernard… but effective!
+40 in +/- in a game 7…. Baller!
AC is our only Aggie sports bright spot.
Deputy Travis Junior said:bobinator said:
Caruso is the reason why when anyone says anyone might play in the NBA the response is at least "I guess, maybe"
My approach is to make a few posts that say X player will never sniff an NBA roster and a few posts that state X player is a hall of fame lock. That way my bases are covered.
Except for that Thon Maker thread. I think I stuck with lol that guy sucks.
I can't let the "Thon will be MVP by his 3rd year" thread reference go unnoticed. Saying Caruso wouldn't stick in the NBA was wrong in hindsight. Saying Thon Maker would be MVP (or even a plus rotation guy) was peak future fail
Q is in the Eastern conference finals. He doesn't get the playing time that AC gets, but still a bright spot for us nonetheless.Roman Empire said:
AC is our only Aggie sports bright spot.
GrayMatter said:Q is in the Eastern conference finals. He doesn't get the playing time that AC gets, but still a bright spot for us nonetheless.Roman Empire said:
AC is our only Aggie sports bright spot.
Love Q.
Still one of my favorites! When he gets to play he is productive. I envision a long career for him as well, and hope he is able to find a way to get rewarded financially the way Alex has done.
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