Honestly I'd be more worried if the things I said turned you on.

Despite my out of date name....I am a former student & engaged in difference of opinion with another former student. I DO agree that it would be inappropriate for a Bonfire participant to go on a rant like I did. I do also strongly believe that ALL former students should either give their whole hearted support to the students or just butt out. Who really tries to stay involved with their alma matter just to try & screw things up and be a negative influence? Its completely uncalled for.

[This message has been edited by AggieStudent (edited 12/19/2006 11:55a).]

I agree that this fighting is retarded.

To all those who support SB - keep supporting. The naysayers will be on the bandwagon soon.

To all the naysayers - Take opie up on his offer. Go out to a cut/stack/load/whatever. You will be proven right, or delightfully proven wrong. Either way, you win.

Either for or against, we will carry on.

Sorry this is so long, I feel strongly about Bonfire and wanted all to get across, I hope you will find it a good read.

So say I’m in the dark, but I haven't been around Tex-Ags much before, choose to spend my time more wisely doing more constructive things, but I broke down and decided I must chime in on all of this damn bickering that goes back and forth.

First off I must ask... How can you nay-say something you haven't experienced? You may say Bonfire isn't the real thing or isn't the same, Bonfire isn't safe, Bonfire isn't this isn't that. Have you experienced the "new-army bonfire" as you call it. If not I challenge you to come out and experience it instead of **** talking it.

Next for all of you that call Bonfire “new army”. Your excuses have been: its not on campus, its not as big, its not multi-tier its not university supported, on and on and on.
So we’ll compare the fire of the 90’s to the fires of the 10’s. Those fires were off campus, non university supported, relatively small, t-pee shape or piles of trash. So does this mean that “Your real Aggie Bonfire” isn’t in-fact the “real Aggie Bonfire” because you didn’t do it exactly like super-old army did and our is more so the “true bonfire” because we do it more so like they did? No. The fact is that through the many years of Bonfire things have adapted to the changes of the university and the change of the times (move from Simpson to Duncan in 55 and from Duncan to Polo in 92) meaning that no two Bonfires have ever been the same. Hell there was even a big change in 67 when the yell-leaders transferred control of the fire to the Red-Pots.

The fact is that the fire is the same, it has just adapted to the times and the current situation. Most all would love to have a University Supported Bonfire on campus with everybody participating in build and burn, that time has just gone for now. The thing that makes it the same though is that there are a bunch of totally red-ass Aggies doing what they love and showing the Burning Desire to beat the hell outa t.u. and while doing so they are building unbreakable friendships and meeting people they might have not met before. If you ask me that’s what Bonfire is all about and nothing has changed just because we do it on a smaller scale away from campus.

I will quote TexasRebel “Bonfire never unified campus...it unified Aggies...and yes...it still does”

For those nay-sayers of Student Bonfire, I offer you this. You are no better than Hugh Wilson was in the 90’s just in a different way. For those of you that don’t know who Hugh Wilson was, he was a Die-Hard Aggie Bonfire Hater that was a professor in the Biology Department that took every opportunity to bash Bonfire, Red-Pots, Brown-Pots, any supporters, and even the university when he could manage. Dr, Bowen and the University had to keep a close eye on him at all times.

In addition to those that say “its not the same” its not that you think its different that makes so many mad, it’s the fact that it seems like you are trying to say your better cause you worked on “the real fire” your no better of an Aggie than we are and your Bonfire was no better than ours (infact this yours/ours gets me. Its Aggie which is Past, Preset, and future)… If that’s what you think than your no true Aggie. Instead of trying to point out our faults how about a good job, pat on the back, donation to SB to help the fire going. That’s all we really need to keep us going.

And Bird… From what I hear and have read… Assuming the role of Square isn’t something you really want to do.

A. Bonfire never unified the campus. I was told 100 ways that Bonfire was a waste and I was stupid for working on it.

B. I went out to cut with SB and was surprised how similar the atmosphere was. As much as old army wants on campus bonfire to be so different than SB, it is pretty comparable.

C. SquareOne you are annoying always trying to cause trouble on a subject you don't seem to know a whole lot about. You are acting like a child, Please go away.

I'm acting like a child how? Because I think people bickering over something that people are set in their ways over is stupid and a waste of time? It's jackass supporters like you who turn other people off.

For those who challenge oters to come out and try it and then you'll be sold, you might not be aware that there are quite a few who may have come out and given it a chance, only for them not to like it. Like religion, I think it's not wise to critisize something that one knows little of. I have experienced SB and I wasn't that thrilled with it. I support the efforts however.

But for you, to say I'm acting like a child and telling me to "go away" for whatever reason, perhaps just because you don't agree with me is kind of childish in itself, don't you think?

I've said it before last night, and I'll say it now: A sure fire way to turn people off who are currently involved, push people on the fence over to the naysayers, and give naysayers ammo against you is to demean people who don't happen to agree with you for a number of reasons you may not understand.

Don't be a jerk, people might listen.

A missionary once told me that he had brought 0 people to believe in Jesus through debates and arguements. He said that true converts were made by experiencing The Spirit by doing His works and seeing His impact on their lives.

What I am trying to say is that none of us are going to persuade someone to know and love Bonfire by talking about it. It's something they have to experience by doing and working on it. It's up to them to decide if it is "real" or not.

I invite anyone lurking on these boards who has been out to Student Bonfire and doesn't believe it's the "real" Bonfire to chime in. It's ok if you came out to cut and it just wasn't your cup of tea. It's ok if you weren't shown where you fit in or didn't understand some things that went on. Lastly, I am sorry if you got turned off because someone sent you for a tree-lean indicator or the #8 Super-hooker. I just want to make sure that you know what "real" Bonfire is and figure out where Student Bonfire differs from that perception.

And please don't come on here and say "I went to burn and there weren't any yell leaders". That's a-kin to saying that the baseball game you went to wasn't really a game because there weren't any grand slams. Also, excuse me if you came to burn and couldn't see the forest through the trees. We cut them all down.



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If you can read this, thank a teacher.
If you can read this in English, thank a Soldier.

I'm still trying to figure out where y'all think I said I was Ol' Army. I've never said I was Ol' Army, and don't think of myself as such, but y'all seem to be reading what y'all want anyway and not what I said so, whatever.

In a nutshell I said that I support off campus bonfire, it is different though (obviously), and that new army bonfire workers need to get the rest of new army (the other 90% of the student body that don't do anything to help) to get involved and maybe even help a little.

It isn’t that I don’t agree with your stance, I am just annoyed by you. I find it irritating that most arguments on the Bonfire board are started and stoked by you. Hey maybe you are a great person and are truly concerned with the success with SB, but I find myself doubting that.

quote:

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Like religion, I think it's not wise to critisize something that one knows little of.

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I never criticized anyone for their opinions, I just criticized you and stated my opinions and experiences concerning both Bonfires.

And please do not confuse me with a “jackass supporter”. I have no problem with SB and what they are doing, I am not one of the old army people who tells them they are stupid for wanting to continue this or belittling them by telling them their experience isn’t as good as mine. But I have been out to cut once and found the experiences and atmosphere to be similar to my experiences prior to ‘99.

Nice try on trying to get me riled up and in a debate, but I can’t do anything when you pull random assumptions and arguments out of your ass. You made no sense.

Aggiebird:

quote:

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I've never said I was Ol' Army, and don't think of myself as such

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Aggiebird:

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Sorry, it's that simple, it's not the same; therefore it's a totally different experience.

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What we are doing is "new army". It's different from what you did, which pre-dated "new army", therefore what you did is "old army". You also said that "On campus Bonfire is Ol' Army" and made a point of saying that you worked on on-campus Bonfire. You indirectly claimed to be "Old Army".

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new army bonfire workers need to get the rest of new army (the other 90% of the student body that don't do anything to help) to get involved and maybe even help a little.

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In the same way that the Hilel Foundation and Aggie Offroad isn't for everyone, Cut/Load/Stack isn't a perfect fit for all Aggies. Like most organizations, there is something for everyone to do out there, but some people just aren't willing to stick around long enough to find their niche.

Oh, and on-campus Bonfire employed the labors of about 2% of the student body. The overwhelming majority of students only showed up for burn night.

Had you participated in any off-campus 1st Cuts, you would have watched hundreds of Aggies come in and out of site. As is the case with some aspects of Bonfire, there are times when there are more people than work. When this happens, people leave, feeling like they aren't needed, and don't come back. With the current size of Bonfire, level of safety, and number of people to step up and lead; it is hard to prevent this from happening.

Come work, then talk. First Cut should be around October 6th. See you there.

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If you can read this, thank a teacher.
If you can read this in English, thank a Soldier.

[This message has been edited by opie03 (edited 12/19/2006 4:11p).]

Bird… I don’t know personally what all other memebers of SB bonfire do to promote but I would assume many do the same as I do. I tell everyone I know, and tell them all to tell their friends, I’ve been the occasional one to write on a board or post a flyer to only have it erased or ripped down by professors then Ill write it again. Don’t think we all just like being by ourselves in a tiny community of bonfire people, its hard though getting the word out and for every 10 people you have commit maybe 1 or 2 show up. Profs don’t let up on work any in the fall and between that and the 1000’s of other club events always going on its hard to recruit and get people out at cut and stack. Burn is another issue, there was good turnout this year even many turned away because of parking overflow or something of that sort?, but its still not the numbers wanted. So what do you suggest we do? And that’s no scarcaism… Its true well never have half of campus out there, most people are to lazy to walk from one end of campus to the other muchless drive 20 minuites to cut or stack. And not being university supported doesn’t help much either, So again instead of saying “your no the same” blah blah give some help to make us better, were growing every year.

And to all not just bird what is SUPPORT ? Do you tell everybody you know about what were doing and how great it is, do you send a check to bonfire even 5 bucks helps, do you donate anything even if its just a little bit of your time? Support is a funny word that people throw around a lot acting like they support it just because they simply agree with what your doing. Support is something totally different.

Yeah yankee, its funny how the right-hook knocks fence-sitters. Even more funny how the whole deal had nothing to do with bonfire or leadership at all but yet all the retaliation is against it.

quote:

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You indirectly claimed to be "Old Army".

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This is a bit of a stretch, but if you put the pieces together like that then that is exactly what I meant when I said y'all are reading what y'all want to see. As is your spin on my phrase of 'new army bonfire workers'. When I said new army bonfire workers, I meant new army that works on bonfire, not workers on new army bonfire.

Y'all are arguing with someone who supports what y'all are doing, while there are many out there who flat out disagree with and are against what y'all are doing.

I don't see anybody that flat out disagrees with what were doing sitting on this board telling me that we aren't the real Bonfire, etc. And I'm not trying to argue with you, I'm trying to make sense of what your saying.

Then again you never answered me on the "how do you support" issue.

aggiebird: Assuming you don't drive a Model-T Ford to work every day, you appreciate the benefits and necessities of change. Steam, internal combustion, seat belts, air bags, safety glass, anti-lock brakes, hybrid engines, and bio-diesel all revolutionized the automobile and mass transit in general. Our needs as a society aren't met by the tin lizzie anymore.

I'll agree with you: Bonfire 2006 was different from Bonfire 1999 and before. It's safer, better engineered, constructed faster, and built by trained people with safety as their number one concern. All the changes that were made are for the better, just like the automobile. '99-style Bonfire doesn't work anymore.

Bonfire is more than different; it's revolutionized. In doing so, we have managed to preserve the "joy in driving" that is shared between "drivers" of the '27 and '07 models. The only way to verify the identity of that joyful Spirit is to drive it. I offer you my keys.

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If you can read this, thank a teacher.
If you can read this in English, thank a Soldier.

Odly enough Henery Ford invented the Model-T in 1908. Close enough to 1909-the start of Bonfire. Thank goodness we don't still drive Model T's.

But then again I would bet to say someone has the argument that the Model T is better than the Ford Pickup of today. Because it's Old Army!

quote:

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Then again you never answered me on the "how do you support" issue.

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I support what y'all are doing, as in I'm not against what y'all are doing, I don't have a problem with it, I'm not fighting or trying to block what y'all are doing; I support it.

Edit: It seems like with as many people as y'all make out to be against what y'all are doing, y'all would take this support instead of nitpicking.

[This message has been edited by aggiebird02 (edited 12/19/2006 5:42p).]

You may agree with us, but support us not.

Google search "define Support":

•the activity of providing for or maintaining by supplying with money or necessities
•give moral or psychological support, aid, or courage to
•aiding the cause or policy or interests of
•support materially or financially

Again do you support us by money(like I said 5 bucks can go along way), material, a pat on the back, a good job not only on this board but out in public at Bonfire telling more than the 10 or so that read this board. Telling us were not the same is a lack of support because it is basically a slap in the face saying were not as good because were not Aggie Bonfire. Saying were not Bonfire is basically saying you have a big head. Sorry you can't get over yourself and the thought that your better than us because you built the "Real Bonfire".

"OCB isn't bonfire"
"Yes it is"
"no it's not..blah blah blah old army"
"old army didn't have to deal with blah blah blah"
"It was better when I worked on it"
"come out to OCB and see for yourself"
"I don't need to see it to know"
"blah blah blah"
"rant"
"INSULT"
"RETORT"
"COUNTER RETORT"
"NONSENSE STATEMENT INVOLVING AXEHANDLES"
"YOU'RE IGNORANT AND WRONG"
"NO YOU'RE WRONG"
"You're both retarded for acting in like such non-Aggies"

-thread dies.

How many of these damn pissing contests do we need?

If you're old army, or think you are, congrats. You were born before us. Want a cookie? Bonfire was and is a great experience that we both agree that everyone (who is interested) should participate in. It's about building camaraderie, friendships, and discovering who you are as an Aggie and a person. Arguing over the semantics of the size, shape, safety, alcohol or lack thereof, etc. is pointless.

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Telling us were not the same is a lack of support because it is basically a slap in the face saying were not as good because were not Aggie Bonfire.

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Pointing out the obvious is a slap in the face? Did I ever say one was better than the other, and how did you ever tie together the two in what I said? It seems to me like your a bit touchy, a little too trigger happy when it comes to touting how much better the off campus bonfire is. That's fine, you should be proud of what y'all are doing, but don't criticize me for saying the two are different.

I've been told so far on this thread that: I was led by sheep (former Red/Brown Pots), it's also been insinuated that the I didn't work on bonfire out of spirit or pride or the burning desire to beat tu, but instead because I was simply told to do so and was taking orders like a sheep (similar to the Pots in charge), what I worked on was compared to a 100 year old car while what y'all work on is a new Ford pickup, and I've had what I've said either ignored or flat out twisted around depending on what suits your argument, but I'm the one that can't get over myself? Come on.

I'm done, and we all still feel the same way we did before, what a waste of time. I'm sorry I spoke on the subject.

opie, thanks for being a reasonable guy and a good ambassador for your efforts. AggieStudent, you're quite the opposite. Maybe like minded individuals aren't always the ones who make progress, maybe debate needs to be "stoked" so different perspectives can be brought to light...maybe to show what those outside the organization thing OF the organization. You should just quit talking if all you have to back up your puerile arguments is your nonsense.

It's a shame this descended into what it did, yet again. I think most rational supporters of SB realize that dissent and differing viewpoints are essential in the growth of bonfire or Bonfire, and also in increasing participation from those "fence sitters"

You should just shut up and leave the talking to the big boys.

I am not a reasonable guy. I'm as pig headed & stubborn as they come. I don't waste my breath with lobbying sbc style. If I did, there probably wouldn't be a bonfire to be arguing about.

I'm just deeply hurt that I didn't get your approval. If you'll excuse me I've got to go watch brokeback mountain now.

wow. Something to be proud of there, no doubt.

[This message has been edited by SquareOne07 (edited 12/19/2006 10:01p).]

I'm sure glad I wasn't here for this...

-TexasRebel

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opie, thanks for being a reasonable guy and a good ambassador for your efforts.

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"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs and blaming it on you..." IF by Rudyard Kipling
http://www.swarthmore.edu/~apreset1/docs/if.html

I guess an apt summary of this and discussions like it all come down to the definition of Bonfire and the description of Student Bonfire's annual project.

From my memory as a fish in the Corps, Bonfire is defined as "Every year, Aggies gather wood and timber to build a huge Bonfire that symbolizes the burning desire to beat the hell outta t.u. and the undying Spirit that all Aggies have for Texas A&M."

Student Bonfire does just that. It's Bonfire. SB's methods, safety, and means may be different; but the burning desire and the Spirit are the same. These two qualities are what make Bonfire, and you can only verify their presence in person.

BTHOB'07


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If you can read this, thank a teacher.
If you can read this in English, thank a Soldier.

Bird. I wouldn’t call myself trigger happy, infact I don’t believe I ever said that the fire of your day was better than the fire of my day. If I did and you can show me where I said that I will edit it because that was not my intent. I apologize for those that say your were led by sheep, or that you didn’t work on bonfire out of spirit or pride or your desire to beat the hell outa t.u., I infact have just as much respect for the Red Pots of the 90’s as I do of the Red Pots of today, and I believe we all build Bonfire as a matter of spirit and burning desire to beat the hell outa t.u.

I believe what your originally said on this thread was “Also, the modified off campus bonfire isn't the same as Bonfire. Sorry, it's that simple, it's not the same; therefore it's a totally different experience. Do you really think you can understand something by mimicking it (modified and changed to boot)?”

That’s where I get the slap in the face, you believe we are trying to “mimick” the fire you built? Slap one. “It’s a totally different experience” Slap two. So yes maybe I read into the fact that your basically saying “your fire” was better. Personally its not your fire its not my fire, every Aggie Bonfire from 1909 till now is our Fire, the Aggie Bonfire. So quit with the “you fire isn’t the same”. If your gonna agree with it then agree quit saying I agree but……

wouldn't bird be a better authority to say whether his fire was different than the current fire? What's the same is the spirit, what's different is the fire. Wouldn't we all agree on that? It's different, some people don't like it, some people like it more, some are indifferent. But it is different for better or worse isn't it?

Him saying that Bonfire is differnt in the way it is designed or where it burns isn't what I am concerned about. I am saddened by the fact that he thinks he is so high and mighty that he claims I don't know what Bonfire really is that I cant understand it, or that I am trying to mimick what he did. What he did is exactly what we are doing now, a bunch of Aggies building a Bonfire to make new unbreakable friendships while showing our burning desire to beat the hell outa t.u.

Bird.. I'm done trying to get you to see what I'm trying to get across. I appologise for your being so close minded to think that we are mimicking you or that we don't understand "your Bonfire". Maybe you don't think your better than us, but what you say sure as hell leads me to believe that you do. Then again who knows you could be a board troll just tryin to get a rise out of people, you could even be squares best friend/brother for all I know.

[This message has been edited by Pro-Bonfire (edited 12/20/2006 6:48p).]

no relation whatsoever. I think it's funny how just because I have a different take on a lot of things "bonfire" you think I'm just trying to get a rise out of you. Instead of writing off people who disagree with you, maybe you should pay attention to what they say instead of being so hell bent on changing their minds.

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It seems like with as many people as y'all make out to be against what y'all are doing, y'all would take this support instead of nitpicking.

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Nobody wants the support of an ass.

Square...
Funny thing is even though you say your not trying to get a rise out of Bonfire people it seems like you sure do rub many of them the wrong way. I haven't written you or your opinions off, I just haven't read one that was worth listening too. Then agian it seems the only "take" you have on "things" is against the grain of what Bonfire folks think.

Nowone said I was trying to change anybodys mind on anything. I've simply been trying to understand everybodys point of view and have them understand mine.

PJYoung... couldn't have said it better myself. Bonfire can do without the "support" of a bunch of naysayers. If you people want to come out and actually "support" Bonfire then come on out. Quit sitting the damn fence.
(and by the way when I say support I mean: help work on it, give materials, give time, give money, not "support" as in just agree with what were doing with a bunch of "I agree BUT..."

I would hate to go against the grain of what "bonfire people" think.

Maybe an objective point of view on bonfire might be a good point of view to consider from time to time.

So SquareOne and AggieBird, I expect that both of you will participate this year in order to show your support and justify your opinion of Off Campus Bonfire? You are more than welcome to join the Off-Campus Hogs crew if you like. Hopefully I have the time this year to make it out there for '07. I wasn't able to help out this year, but I did participate the previous three years. Maybe I will see you two out there and then we can discuss your opinion again after you experience OCB. If it doesn't change, then you will have more fuel for your argument.

Like I said, I've been out two years prior. Sincerely thanks for the invite, but I won't be out next fall...I wish I could say it's due to graduation, but I'll be getting a number of other things taken care of. Thanks again though.