http://www.texags.com/main/forum.reply.asp?topic_id=774072&page=1&forum_id=5

discuss.

Everything I said is true, new army does like to talk about Bonfire, but how many of them go to and support even the current modified off campus bonfire? Also, the modified off campus bonfire isn't the same as Bonfire. Sorry, it's that simple, it's not the same; therefore it's a totally different experience. Do you really think you can understand something by mimicking it (modified and changed to boot)?

No need for some of y'all to get your panties in a wad though, if you like what y'all are doing then keep doing it. I see it as new army doing the best they can in the current situation. I support the modified off campus bonfire just to clear things up, but remember, it's not the same.

Oh, about my pants still being sticky from the virgin stripe... My outfit was Perimeter Pole my Fish year. My outfit also worked the 6-12 shift the night it fell, most hung around until late, and left about an hour before the fall. My fish were on the stack wiring until we left. The first date my wife and I went on was the last Bonfire to burn on campus. I know about Bonfire, chump.


Texas Aggie
Corps of Cadets
Class of 2002

bird you still don't have to be a pompous ass and say a statement like

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new army loves to talk about Ol' Army Bonfire . . . even though they could never understand it

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that is such an incredibly high schoolish/selfish/im better than you/non-Aggie thing to say.

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Class of 2002

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You. Are. Not. Old. Army.

I. Don't. Care. What. You. Think.

On campus Bonfire is Ol' Army. That's what I said, chump, learn how to read.

phatbc, you're right, I could have worded it better.

Student Bonfire is Ol'er Army!

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Agreed, but what if A&M banned football from campus and Students decide to go play an intramural game down in Navasota.

ABout 10 thousand people show up. There are no yell leaders, no band, no marchin in.... Who would be arguing its the same? I think that is all these posters are trying to say. Sure, they will be doing a great thing, having fun and building a new tradition that looks a lot like the old one, but it shouldn't surprise anybody when people say it is not the same.

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I will say that my impression of your comment was that you meant that AGGIE Football was gone and not just ALL FOOTBALL was gone from campus, if this were the statement I feel that is would be a more appropriate analogy:

Kyle Field has been condemned and is being remodeled for quite some time (And if it is anything like Ross Street WHO KNOWS when it will get done) and the season is approaching. Well the first few games pass and no games are played to all Aggies' dismay. Well the next week the Leadership Council says, "There are Aggies who miss Fightin' Texas Aggie Football and we should do something about it," and they decide to get together and orchestrate playing their games in the mean time at A&M Consolidated's stadium. Sadly, the stadium is smaller so not as many Aggies can attend and the pageantry dynamic changes. Plus, the coaches continue to work on getting Kyle back open so they can't make the games, so the leadership council gets together consults with former players on how best to coach the team themselves. (Some of the Old Players actually stay and help in day to day operations.) Also the council decides it is best to change the offensive scheme. Despite all this, the players don't change and the uniforms stay the same. In a few weeks they decide to move the game to Bryan High School's field. Despite their efforts there are Aggies out there who feel that if it is not on-campus it isn't Aggie Football, plus there are those who feel that since the football team lines up differently on offensive, it just isn't the same as it used to be... doesn't look the same to them.

Let me say this cause you might be thinking it... this whole analogy is preposterous. Why would the team do such a thing?... move the games?... play without their coaches?.... change the offensive scheme? Well, I would say probably for the exact reason they stated, because out there are some Aggies who want/need Aggie Football and it was the best way they could get it to them. They do it for those who love Aggie Football and/or those who appreciate their hardwork and sacrifices even if 100% of the Aggies don't go or support their decision completely. They do it for their fellow teammates, especially the freshmen. They also do it so maybe when "Kyle Re-Opens" they can do the best job possible as the Aggie Community unites again. This situation is completely preposterous, I would have never expected... nay BELIEVED that such events could have taken place. But I feel that is exactly what Student Bonfire has done and is why I completely support them and am forever indebted to them and all their sacrifices.

(And yes, it is the Aggie Football team, and not replacements, because despite the 7 years and all the events in between, whether it was on campus or off-campus Bonfire was always student led and student built... the quality and character of work staff was the independent variable.)



btw, forget the analogy for a second... all this writing made me think... whether Bonfire returns to campus or not, Ross Street will NEVER get repaired... just wanted to add that.

this whole debate about on campus Bonfire being old army and off campus being new army is kinda silly. Everything is "old army" if it happened in your time and your time has since past.

I think it would be more relevant to view the collapse of Bonfire and the way the university has changed since as another era in the university's history. Get my drift?

I'll post it here too just for you chicken little
I mean Aggiebird

I absolutely agree that it is NOT THE SAME.

Why is it not the same? Because the paper pushers haven't given their offocial stamp of approval. Because it isn't on tv. Because all the sheep that are too damn afraid to go against the grain aren't in attendance. Because it isn't the "popular" thing to do. Becuase some people would rather whine about things than get off thir ass & do something about it......etc etc

Build it for yourselves. Don't let people tell you what it means to YOU. Continue to be LEADERS instead of sheep. Don't listen to some pansy ass '02 ct sitting on his couch telling you how about 'ol army. Guys like him make me sick. If 'ol army means ANYTHING ....its about f' the bs & get the job done....ie doing the impossible. You think Bonfire in '98 was 'ol army? The pots were simply doing what people before them had showed them how to do & then asking the university to write the checks.

[This message has been edited by AggieStudent (edited 12/17/2006 10:56p).]

Clever.

aggiebird02

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new army does like to talk about Bonfire, but how many of them go to and support even the current modified off campus bonfire?

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AggieStudent

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Why is it not the same? it isn't the "popular" thing to do. Becuase some people would rather whine about things than get off thir ass & do something about it

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aggiebird02

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if you like what y'all are doing then keep doing it. I see it as new army doing the best they can in the current situation.

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AggieStudent

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Build it for yourselves. Don't let people tell you what it means to YOU.

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Hmmm... Sounds like you're saying the same thing I am. With the exception of you calling the former Brown/Red Pots sheep, and I in fact think of them as the leaders they were.

And the fact that I support the current modified off campus bonfire,

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I support the modified off campus bonfire just to clear things up, but remember, it's not the same.

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while you seem be trying to trivialize the Ol' Army Bonfire.

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You think Bonfire in '98 was 'ol army? The pots were simply doing what people before them had showed them how to do & then asking the university to write the checks.

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Trivialize 'ol army......you bet your ass

The ol army bonfire of the 90's was simply following directions.



Do I consider myself a master chef?....Nope, but yer damn skippy I can follow the directions on the back of the box. & No we're not saying the same things. You're patronizing the off campus guys by saying they're not as good as the cookie cutter leaders of the 90's because they're working on a lesser project. I say they're better! They've had to reinvent the wheel & then figure out how to pay for it to boot. How many of their duties do they get to hand off to the university. The work they're doing is the same only more of it and more PERSONAL responsibility. Instead of Aggies cheering them on like they should be they have people like you talking out your ass & waiting on them to fall on their face. The reason it isnt taking off and getting to the size of project you would consider worthy of the big B in BONFIRE is because of fence sitters & naysayers like yourself. Like they say, you're either part of the solution or you're part of the problem.

[This message has been edited by AggieStudent (edited 12/18/2006 12:21a).]

So I'm a part of the problem because I support off campus bonfire and think more of new army should step up to the plate instead of talking about it?

And how am I waiting for y'all to fall on your face when I've said multiple times that I support it and think more new army should get involved?

So instead of addressing the fact that I posted a quoted list of things we agree on, you are using this as a platform to belittle the old on campus Bonfire? While I support what y'all are doing?


Did you even understand anything I've said? Are you even reading this or just using this thread to push your old on campus Bonfire isn't as redass as what we're doing now position?

When Bonfire started, it was built just for the people that built it....as most non arson fires are. Eventually as the school changed & it got bigger & bigger so did its popularity for spectators. After a while they even added in the band & football team as a side attraction, but make no mistake, the night was still about the fun & SPIRIT of the next days rivalry. It remained that way until 99. Since then Aggies have practically been ashamed of it. There was a terrible series of mistakes made the burden of which will be with some of us forever. I'll be damned if it has anything to do with the kids that are in school now. They have nothing to be ashamed of. Stop telling them that they're less than you. That their efforts will never amount to your heroic feats as a 2 bit ct who was likely ordered to participate. Cause ya know what...... Some of them still have that "spirit" .....They found a way to build a big fire.... & if some people would quit insinuating that what they're doing is a bad thing, or that it won't amount the 'ol days.... maybe some more people get behind them & help it start to snowball.

With a little help from God & some good Ags, someday the damn thing will be so big that no paper pusher can stand between the football team & band from coming out (since that's what some of you whiners are so stuck on) So basically what I'm saying is say something nice or STFU. Its not about YOU anymore. You had your time in Aggieland. Let them make it the best it can be. Rome wasn't built in a day & Aggie Bonfire took 90 years.

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I support the modified off campus bonfire just to clear things up, but remember, it's not the same.
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Here's where you made my point btw. Don't spew backhanded compliments out the side of your mouth. If you're going to support it SUPPORT IT.

[This message has been edited by AggieStudent (edited 12/18/2006 12:49a).]

It isn't the same dumb ass, the fact that the large majority of the student body doesn't help in it, or even go to it proves that. In my day Bonfire unified a campus, does it still do that?

Instead of complaining about old CTs like me not supporting it enough, get over this inferiority complex you seem to have, and get more of new army to help you since that seems to be the main goal.

It isn't former students that should be recruiting people and getting current students to help and exciting people about it, it's you. And your 'us against the world' mentality sure won't help you do that. That position and the fact that you seem to enjoy belittling the old Bonfire makes you out to be an extremist. These attitudes and outlooks won't win you any new supporters or students to help. They will alienate you and cut you off from a huge majority of the Aggie Family. Those attitudes and positions work against what you say you want, a unified and supported Bonfire.

You can't have it both ways.

Bonfire never unified campus. That's a load of crap that is basically spewed simply to have ammo against the off campus fire. From Hugh Wilson to the Aggies Against Bofire student group. There was always dissent.


I'm class of 99. I did all I could while I could. If you were smarter, you would've picked that up from my posts.

Aggie Bonfire is for the students. It was handed down to us & we flat dropped the freakin ball. We as former students OWE it to them to give them unwavering and enthusiastic support so that maybe they can share even some of the great experiences that were handed down by those before us.

You sound sorta bitter, like you were passed over for a pot or something...

It's up to new army to make it what it should be. I see the large majority of them not supporting it and not going to it, and that isn't my fault, that falls on the leadership of the off campus bonfire.

You have no Account Created date on your profile, your handle here is AggieStudent and your profile says your occupation is student and your home is College Station. So you'll have to forgive me for not being smart enough to figure out you aren't a student.

[This message has been edited by aggiebird02 (edited 12/18/2006 2:08a).]

why does it always come to bickering over something that dosn't have anything to do with Bonfire?

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It isn't the same dumb ass, the fact that the large majority of the student body doesn't help in it, or even go to it proves that. In my day Bonfire unified a campus, does it still do that?

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let's have fun with this...shall we?

ok, so it's not the same...but does that mean that you agree that Bonfire is better since students aren't forced to participate?

Bonfire never unified campus...it unified Aggies...and yes...it still does...but IMHO, it also shows that the percentage of Aggies attending Texas A&M is falling. Soon being a 2%er will be a good thing...

When I say unified campus, I guess I'm looking at it from a CT's perspective. As an underclassman, I saw it as a way for the Corps to work closely with non-regs for a common goal.

And I'm not sure what you mean by people being forced to help. Are you talking about non-regs or CTs?

yes

Well as a CT, I know my outfit didn't force anyone. We were perimeter pole often and had a history of heavy involvment, so maybe there was no need. Many other outfits cheesed out all the time, so I know if they were supposed to be being forced, there was a breakdown somewhere, 'cus a lot didn't do ****. Hell, the BQs didn't do anything. Being encouraged isn't the same as forced, unless you consider peer pressure to be a force which I don't.

I'd be interested in knowing how non-regs forced people to go...

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they have nothing to be ashamed of. Stop telling them that they're less than you.

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Ditto.

Since the Unity Project fire in '02, I've worked hand-in-hand with the students every year since and I can tell you that they have the same Aggie Spirit. Countless former Redpots and other "Old Army" leadership have been to every part of off-campus Bonfire and they say it's Bonfire. Who are you to say the Spirit isn't the same?

Congrats, aggiebird, on getting perimeter pole in '98. If you and your buddies would have worked a little harder, you might have gotten Centerpole like my buddies and I did in '99. You seem like you are trying to out-Bonfire everyone here, and you can't. These former, current, and future students build Bonfire each year. You are stuck in '98 carrying your perimeter pole.

BTHOB'07.

P.S. If you are riding your soap-box having never been out to any phase of Aggie Student Bonfire, shame on you. I say this because if you have been out there, worked with these students, and shared the load with them; you wouldn't be saying the things you are saying.

-------------------------------------------------------
If you can read this, thank a teacher.
If you can read this in English, thank a Soldier.

I agree with Opie. I was out there in '99 also and was on it the shift before it fell. I experienced both sides of bonfire the workman and the leader. I have worked with the new off campus bonfire every year and agree with Opie. If anything it is better, by putting more responsibilities on the leaders of the organization.

If you get upset that someone says "If it's not on campus, it's not real Bonfire", or any derivative thereof...you really need to brush it off.

1) No one can marginalize that we've done as Student Bonfire. Just accept that they are ignorant. 2) You can't convince them...if they REALLY want to live in Pre-99...let them. They obviously choose to see certain facets of Bonfire. Why someone chooses to only see the depressing or negative side of things is beyond me. 3) Watch them all of a sudden claim they've supported all along...when we have 80,000 at an off-campus Bonfire. It will happen.

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I know about Bonfire, chump.

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Realy, Ever see one on Duncan? I have.

I look at it like this, MY mom is '79, she says OC bonfire is aggie bonfire, she wins.

I have a name for you, its "sanctamonious ass". One, your not old army, Mom is old army, my cousin who built in 90-93 is old army, the old man who was c/o '52 on northgate is old army.

You have the same attitude that the group who was here when collapse happend seems to be developing in large part(obviously not all of them, but its becoming more and more obvious....), that your somehow better aggies because bonfire was built on-campus. It's unfortunate so many have turned to this, it's got to make guys like opie who have been so dedicated over the years so pissed off....

So "chump" get over yourself, stop talking like you wrote the book on traditions here at A&M, and quit trying to spread disharmony on campus and through the community.
____________________________________________________________
Proudest member of the Fightin Texas Aggie class of 08 Beat the h*** outa tu A-A-A Whoop!!!. May bonfire forever burn in our hearts.....and may the Twelfth Man ever burn it in memory and in hope for the future.



[This message has been edited by Ag_of_08 (edited 12/18/2006 5:09p).]

[This message has been edited by Ag_of_08 (edited 12/18/2006 5:11p).]

[This message has been edited by Ag_of_08 (edited 12/18/2006 5:15p).]

After reading this thread I have concluded that aggiebird02 is the best Aggie ever and he wins Bonfire. So stop trying.

I'm not pissed off. We have been dealing with this sort of aggie for years and I don't doubt that it will continue for a like period of time.

They are the sort that will base their opinion of a movie on the testimony of one of their friends who saw the previews. They were probably the type who took care of all the helium logs out at stack pre-2000

Instead of being pissed off, I invite aggiebird and all those out there to come to cut, stack, load, etc. with me, use my tools, wear my pot, and build Bonfire. If, in doing that, said Aggie still doesn't think it's the "real Bonfire," s/he is welcome to spout off as loud as they want on any forum available.

The gauntlet has been thrown.

Everybody who attacks bird for his thoughts and opinions on the matter are not doing themselves or OCB any favors whatsoever. Some while back, it was either Keegan or Dual, that said a sure fire way to detract people from what SB was doing was to belittle them for their own opinions. Ag08, I respect you and your opinions, you know that, but for every old ag who says that what is being built currently is Bonfire, there are many many other who disagree.

AND that's ok. If those who participate in OCB are satisfied in the work they do and find that it carries on the spirit of old, then by god, so be it. If some feel that it's not what it once was, then so be it as well.

Bickering over something like this is trivial, as has been said before. It's about as useful as trying to convince somebody what you think tastes good and somebody else doesn't...that could have been a lot better, but I've had a long day.

Look, I'm on the fence about OCB, anybody who has read me on here knows that. However, I do hope it's clear that I support them and hope they do well. However, it does turn me off to read what people like AggieStudent say, and there are many others who share the same attitude. People calling others names and demeaning their own "Aggieness" is just poor taste. Respect other people for what they believe. If you believe what you're doing to be right, then what do you have to prove?

Rant complete.

http://www.texags.com/main/forum.reply.asp?topic_id=754712&forum_id=14

He closes encouraging people to "be polite and considerate"

OCB has enough of a PR disaster on it's hands, people involved calling others jackasses and know-nothings for their failure to agree with you further stigmatizes those active in SB as narrow minded jerks. A much better way to counter somebody who disagrees with you would be to try and understand their argument, knw why they feel that way, and then make an effort to sympathize and maturely respond to them with facts, if available. Name calling is stupid, shame on you who resort to that. You're only doing those who you argue against a favor when you have to go there.

Bird, I'm glad you've assumed my role around here!