Zobel said:
you didn't ask me, but your framing is the problem here.
the question isn't "rightly acknowledge and worship God" as in he's the Big Bad and if you aren't nice to him he gets angry at you.
and you have to wonder at being tortured (by whom?)
people are in need of salvation from the consequences of sin, and their own sins. the absence of that salvation leads to eternal condemnation. salvation is the cure for this problem, and only comes through grace from God. that grace can be rejected.
the person who rejects God will not be saved. this has nothing to do with "justly" or otherwise.
You are always welcome to interject, whether asked or not.
When I read your response, it feels to me like you believe these statements are part of some natural order beyond God.
For example: Why does "the absence of that salvation lead to eternal condemnation." ? Is this the result of some law of reality that supersedes the Christian God? Or is it a direct consequence of rules set forth by that Christian God? Assuming the latter, then the reason that I need salvation is because of God. The criteria for salvation is set by God. And the consequences of rejecting God's grace is set by God.
If I am to be tortured for rejecting God, then it is because God choose this punishment for those that reject him. God could choose to not punish me. God could choose to send me to atheist Heaven. God could choose to wipe my mind and reprogram me like a computer to love Him by removing my free will. God could choose to anything. The consequences of these choices are all decided by God.
No one
chooses torture. Imagine a soldier is captured and told to give information or be killed. The soldier then keeps their mouth shut and is killed. Did the soldier choose death? Is this the outcome that the soldier desired? Or did the captor give the captive a bull**** choice and force the captive to play? The captor makes the rules, determines how the captive can 'save' themselves, and also established the penalties.
I did not choose to be born. I did not choose to be in need of salvation. I did not choose to be made into a being who will inevitably 'sin'. I did not choose the rules for salvation. I did not choose the consequences of rejecting the one creates the rules. I am offered a choice between absolute subjugation to the authority of God or torture. I am not permitted to disagree with God and yet I'm told I have the gift of free will.
To me, this is the concerning thing about the Christian notion of God. God must be all good. And so if someday you die and learn that God enjoys (sadistically) the torturing of non-compliant humans, then you must admit this is good. It is good because God does it. And you are not permitted to disagree. . . or rather, you can disagree, but that means you will be tortured as well.
You can tell me all day long that you don't believe in this type of God. But, unless you possess absolute and perfect knowledge of the infinite superbeing of God, then you don't really know. And this framing of God's goodness as unquestionable and undeniably perfectly good on a cosmic, universal, and absolute sense means that your intuition means nothing. Absolutely everything about you that does not fit the exact mold that you demanded to fit into is evil and wrong. Anything unique about you that does not exactly fit the exact mold that you are demanded to fit into is evil and wrong. And this is all a good thing.
Thats a lot of words I just shoved in your mouth. Not my intention. These are just my ramblings in hope of explaining my concern about the nature of the proposed Christian idea of God.
