Colossians 1:24

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Thaddeus73
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Suffering for the Sake of the Body (By Dr. Michael Barber)...

Thus Paul explains, "Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I complete what is lacking in Christ's afflictions for the sake of his body, that is, the church" (Col. 1:24).

This is an astonishing passage. As Thomas Aquinas explains, it could be misinterpreted as teaching "that the passion of Christ was not sufficient for our redemption, and that the sufferings of the saints were added to complete it." Yet, citing 1 John 2:2, Thomas firmly rejects such a reading: "But this is heretical, because the blood of Christ is sufficient to redeem many worlds." How do we interpret this then? Thomas states: Rather, we should understand that Christ and the Church are one mystical person, whose head is Christ, and whose body is all the just, for every just person is a member of this head: "individually members" (1 Cor. 12:27)…. We could say that Paul was completing the sufferings that were lacking in his own flesh. For what was lacking was that, just as Christ had suffered in his own body, so he should also suffer in Paul, his member, and in similar ways in others. Paul's suffering completes what is lacking in Christ's afflictions only in the sense that Christ's redemptive work now must be lived out in his mystical body. Moreover, we should point out the ecclesial nature of all of this. Salvation is not simply communion with Christ but also communion with all believers. Thus, "if one member suffers, all suffer together; if one member is honored, all rejoice together" (1 Cor. 12:26). Paul's suffering redounds to the benefit of the entire mystical bodyhe makes up what is lacking not only for himself but, through his union with Christ, what is lacking in the body itself.
FTACo88-FDT24dad
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Thaddeus73 said:

Suffering for the Sake of the Body (By Dr. Michael Barber)...

Thus Paul explains, "Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I complete what is lacking in Christ's afflictions for the sake of his body, that is, the church" (Col. 1:24).

This is an astonishing passage. As Thomas Aquinas explains, it could be misinterpreted as teaching "that the passion of Christ was not sufficient for our redemption, and that the sufferings of the saints were added to complete it." Yet, citing 1 John 2:2, Thomas firmly rejects such a reading: "But this is heretical, because the blood of Christ is sufficient to redeem many worlds." How do we interpret this then? Thomas states: Rather, we should understand that Christ and the Church are one mystical person, whose head is Christ, and whose body is all the just, for every just person is a member of this head: "individually members" (1 Cor. 12:27)…. We could say that Paul was completing the sufferings that were lacking in his own flesh. For what was lacking was that, just as Christ had suffered in his own body, so he should also suffer in Paul, his member, and in similar ways in others. Paul's suffering completes what is lacking in Christ's afflictions only in the sense that Christ's redemptive work now must be lived out in his mystical body. Moreover, we should point out the ecclesial nature of all of this. Salvation is not simply communion with Christ but also communion with all believers. Thus, "if one member suffers, all suffer together; if one member is honored, all rejoice together" (1 Cor. 12:26). Paul's suffering redounds to the benefit of the entire mystical bodyhe makes up what is lacking not only for himself but, through his union with Christ, what is lacking in the body itself.


That's a really convoluted way of saying that our suffering, when united to Christ through his mystical body, has meaning and purpose including contributing to the salvation of others BY, THROUGH, AND UNDER the power of Christ.
Thaddeus73
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Quote:

That's a really convoluted way of saying that our suffering, when united to Christ through his mystical body, has meaning and purpose including contributing to the salvation of others BY, THROUGH, AND UNDER the power of Christ.

So true. The canard that "Christ did it all" and that we don't have to do anything but believe in Him intellectually is nuked by this one scripture....
FTACo88-FDT24dad
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Thaddeus73 said:

Quote:

That's a really convoluted way of saying that our suffering, when united to Christ through his mystical body, has meaning and purpose including contributing to the salvation of others BY, THROUGH, AND UNDER the power of Christ.

So true. The canard that "Christ did it all" and that we don't have to do anything but believe in Him intellectually is nuked by this one scripture....


Similarly, I was recently struck by two other, unrelated passages of scripture that put the lie to the "just believe in him intellectually" idea.

1. 1 Corinthians 11:23-32 -

Quote:

23 For I received from the Lord what I also handed on to you, that the Lord Jesus on the night when he was betrayed took a loaf of bread, 24 and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, "This is my body that is for you. Do this in remembrance of me." 25 In the same way he took the cup also, after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me." 26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until he comes. 27 Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be answerable for the body and blood of the Lord. 28 Examine yourselves, and only then eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29 For all who eat and drink without discerning the body, eat and drink judgment against themselves. 30 For this reason many of you are weak and ill, and some have died.[j] 31 But if we judged ourselves, we would not be judged. 32 But when we are judged by the Lord, we are disciplined[ so that we may not be condemned along with the world.

This entire message is directed at those who already believe in Jesus as the Christ and who are being admonished by Paul to not participate in the Eucharist unworthily or else they risk eating and drinking judgment on themses and being condemned along with the world. How can either of those be possible outcomes if all that a believer must do is believe intellectually?

2. Hebrews 12:14 -

Quote:

14 Pursue peace with everyone, and the holiness without which no one will see the Lord.

The author of Hebrews is telling his audience to pursue holiness because if you are not holy you will not see the Lord.. You must strive for holiness or you will not enter into the beatific vision.

Coincidentally, I think this passage is also scriptural support for the doctrine of Purgatory.
The Banned
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The protestant work around here is that because you believe, the good action naturally follow. I think human experience proves this to be wrong. The bible does as well. Why are so many NT letters written to believing churches reminding them to act appropriately if their regenerative saving moment should already be compelling them to act appropriately?

It doesn't make any sense, but that's where the conversation would break down. The insistence that our actions can't have affect our salvation in a positive sense is so strongly ingrained that it becomes a 1000 foot tall brick wall for many protestants.
FTACo88-FDT24dad
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The Banned said:

The protestant work around here is that because you believe, the good action naturally follow. I think human experience proves this to be wrong. The bible does as well. Why are so many NT letters written to believing churches reminding them to act appropriately if their regenerative saving moment should already be compelling them to act appropriately?

It doesn't make any sense, but that's where the conversation would break down. The insistence that our actions can't have affect our salvation in a positive sense is so strongly ingrained that it becomes a 1000 foot tall brick wall for many protestants.


The whole if you believe then good things come about is sophistry. Sorry, not sorry.

Paul is clearly speaking to people who believe and telling them they are at risk of condemnation if they receive the Lord's body and blood unworthily. It's a post hoc rationalization to twist up the plain meaning into something it is not.

"The insistence that our actions can't have affect our salvation in a positive sense is so strongly ingrained that it becomes a 1000 foot tall brick wall for many protestants."

I think you are correct. I think it also reveals a very constrained understanding of what salvation means. It tends to limit salvation to being saved from eternal separation from God, which it is, but that's not ALL it is. Salvation is also being saved FOR union with God, which necessarily means transformation unto sanctification and ultimately deification; i.e. the holiness without which we will not see God.

10andBOUNCE
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It is not that the good will "naturally" follow but the good is now able to follow. Just because we have been regenerated doesn't mean we don't need constant exhortation. Our sanctification is a synergistic work and our obedience is important.

2 Peter 1:3-11
Confirm Your Calling and Election
His divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of him who called us to his own glory and excellence, by which he has granted to us his precious and very great promises, so that through them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in the world because of sinful desire. For this very reason, make every effort to supplement your faith with virtue, and virtue with knowledge, and knowledge with self-control, and self-control with steadfastness, and steadfastness with godliness, and godliness with brotherly affection, and brotherly affection with love. For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they keep you from being ineffective or unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. For whoever lacks these qualities is so nearsighted that he is blind, having forgotten that he was cleansed from his former sins. Therefore, brothers, be all the more diligent to confirm your calling and election, for if you practice these qualities you will never fall. For in this way there will be richly provided for you an entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
The Banned
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10andBOUNCE said:

It is not that the good will "naturally" follow but the good is now able to follow. Just because we have been regenerated doesn't mean we don't need constant exhortation. Our sanctification is a synergistic work and our obedience is important.

2 Peter 1:3-11
Confirm Your Calling and Election
His divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of him who called us to his own glory and excellence, by which he has granted to us his precious and very great promises, so that through them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in the world because of sinful desire. For this very reason, make every effort to supplement your faith with virtue, and virtue with knowledge, and knowledge with self-control, and self-control with steadfastness, and steadfastness with godliness, and godliness with brotherly affection, and brotherly affection with love. For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they keep you from being ineffective or unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. For whoever lacks these qualities is so nearsighted that he is blind, having forgotten that he was cleansed from his former sins. Therefore, brothers, be all the more diligent to confirm your calling and election, for if you practice these qualities you will never fall. For in this way there will be richly provided for you an entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

I agree with the bolded. But if the bolded is true, it means we DO play a positive role in our salvation, meaning the commonly understood view of "faith alone" doesn't work. The actions must follow the faith, and those actions require my obedience and surrendering of my own will. God does all the saving, but He requires me to consent to His saving, which includes me going out and doing good things in His name. His grace is the gift that opens my eyes and heart to seeing that I need to consent to His will.. but I still have to consent.

If there are protestants who agree with that paragraph, then they agree with the Catholic Church's teachings on salvation and disagree with the original reformers. Calvin flatly rejected the idea that our obedience is synergistic. Luther, in the Bondage of the Will, also rejected this. If they were wrong on the issue of salvation itself, it may be a good idea to rethink what other issues they got wrong.

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