When I was still an auxiliary bishop in Los Angeles, I attended with my brother bishops from California an ad limina visit with Pope Francis. At the conclusion of the meeting, as we were rising to leave, the Pope stopped us and said, “I want you all to battle the gender ideology…

— Bishop Robert Barron (@BishopBarron) December 18, 2025

I have been very impressed with Bishop Barron since his consecration, he is a very measured, loving yet steadfast advocate for truth.

I cannot agree with him more on this current issue, the gender hysteria sweeping the nation is demonic, seeking to rewrite the rules of creation; these people suffering from dysphoria need our prayers, sympathy, but never should we enable or validate their escape from reality.

Saint Dymphna pray for us!!

The people that castrate kids in the name of political ideology are performing a great and damaging evil. Probably the worst evil in the world today.

It must stop.

BusterAg said:

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The people that castrate kids in the name of political ideology are performing a great and damaging evil. Probably the worst evil in the world today.

It must stop.

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You're very angry about something that just isn't happening. It's being used as a political tool to keep you upset. Look at the actual studies on the matter.

Do you know what is overwhelmingly the most common gender affirming surgery that actually happens for minors? Chest reductions for cisgender males suffering from gynecomastia (a condition where males grow excess breast tissue). Do you oppose that? Want to forbid it just in case those boys might later decide that they want breasts after all?

Prevalence of Gender-Affirming Surgical Procedures Among Minors and Adults in the US

You should be happy. What you want to happen is already the status quo.

Rocag said:

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BusterAg said:

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The people that castrate kids in the name of political ideology are performing a great and damaging evil. Probably the worst evil in the world today.

It must stop.

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You're very angry about something that just isn't happening. It's being used as a political tool to keep you upset. Look at the actual studies on the matter.

Do you know what is overwhelmingly the most common gender affirming surgery that actually happens for minors? Chest reductions for cisgender males suffering from gynecomastia (a condition where males grow excess breast tissue). Do you oppose that? Want to forbid it just in case those boys might later decide that they want breasts after all?

Prevalence of Gender-Affirming Surgical Procedures Among Minors and Adults in the US

You should be happy. What you want to happen is already the status quo.

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Saint Dymphna pray for Rocag.

Rocag said:

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BusterAg said:

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The people that castrate kids in the name of political ideology are performing a great and damaging evil. Probably the worst evil in the world today.

It must stop.

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You're very angry about something that just isn't happening.

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It is, and it is happening right here in Texas.

This is long, so I doubt anyone will watch, but its just crazy. Not in a good way.

Is that included in the category of gender reassignment surgery? If not, you're just setting up a straw man. Is what you're talking about the same as what Kennedy is talking about?

Pretending it's not happening doesn't work anymore. We're past that stage. The cat's out of the bag.

Rocag said:

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Gender reassignment and gender affirming are two different things, but conveniently mixed up by conservatives whenever it serves their purposes. Minors in this country aren't receiving gender reassignment surgery outside of some very rare cases where there's something else going on medically.

You should actually talk to trans people. The care they receive is not at all like what conservatives think it is.

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Are minors being given puberty blockers?

Jazz Jennings had his surgery when he was 17. Do you think that should be allowed?

You are either completely ignorant of reality or you are lying to cover it up.

An old classmate of mine's "daughter" has been receiving "treatment " since "she" was 9.

Puberty blockers are DESIGNED for prepubescents. It's in the damn name.

These are derivatve of the same drugs that were forced on Alan Turing causing him to commit suicide. The left called that barbaric, but now celebrate giving the same drugs to children.

Its demonic. Do some research.

1.) Actually the evidence for hormone blockers show they have irreversible deleterious effects. Again, you really don't know what you are talking about.

2.) Stop acting like those of us trying to protect these kids from your quack science don't care about them. Thats like saying people who opposed Aktion T4 didn't care about disabled people.

Stop experimenting with confused children. Its evil. Full stop.

Yeah Sapper. And when we banned heroine we just wanted people to suffer from pain. Or Oxycotton for that matter. Two drugs that saw much more massive market penetration and over a decade of use before the deleterious effects were properly understood.

Nice non sequitur. Thanks for contributing your point of view.

Between 60 and 90% of children expressing some measure of gender dysphoria grow out of it. The minor fraction that still experience this as adults can pursue whatever treatment of mode of living they deem necessary. It's really not that complicated to find a solution that doesn't involve permanently and irrevocably altering children's bodies.

Silent For Too Long said:

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Puberty blockers were approved by the FDA in 1990. Oxycotton was approved in 1995. Our sample size on Oxycotton is several orders of magnitude higher.

Also, we've been experimenting with different ways to use opioids for almost 200 years. Morphine in 1850 and Heroine in 1874. The book on both of those is significantly larger then puberty blockers, we've "understood how they work and their side effects," and we still make massive mistakes with them. I'm willing to bet good money you are just a huge fan of the Sacklers.

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There's a significant counseling and physiological evaluation component

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A 30 minute eval? You are just exposing your ignorance on the subject. Maybe sit this one out.

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Okay, what's the uncomplicated solution that has evidence to support it

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The way we were treating before drugs. Therapy. Puberty. Nature. The one with the 60 to 90% success rate.

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And what are you doing for the thousands of kids who don't "grow out of it"?

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They become adults with the autonomy and agency to make permanent alterations to their bodies.

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Your attempt to shoehorn opioids into this is ridiculous. Puberty blockers aren't remotely the same class of medications, don't work remotely the same way on the same things, and aren't addictive. Maybe try a better analogy than "well, they're both drugs."

No, it's not a "30 minute eval," referral to a specialty clinic happens after significant work by primary care and mental health providers and referral for medical treatment is made after significant evaluation and in concurrence with continued mental health treatment.

And what happened before gender affirming care wasn't working. At all. It might help you to read the literature by actual experts in the topic rather than just people who reinforce your existing beliefs.

Oh, and given how the right and people like you treat transgendered people I don't believe for a moment you'd allow them to make those decisions as adults.

I agree, puberty blockers are much more dangerous than opioids

Is this one of those times where you pretend not to understand what someone is saying to try to win internet points? Or are you just legitimately incapable of understanding a relatively straight forward comparison. Let me help you out, the fact that they both are drugs has nothing to do with the analogy. OK? Try again. Read slowly if it helps.

You have no idea how I treat trans people. So you can kindly take your baseless accusations and place them in the repository where such things belong.

You've been brainwashed by the absurdly powerful trans lobby. Everything I am saying comes from first hand accounts. You just refuse to accept it because it doesn't fit your Team Blue narrative.

It's disgraceful you are sacrificing innocent children on the alter of your ego. Do some soul searching.

You've read the studies they wanted you to read, and are ignorant of the studies that contradicts the narrative. You've made that abundantly clear.

Riiiiiight. That's why all those far right Christian rags like the New York Times and Washington Post published exposes exposing the underhanded and aggressive methods employed by the Trans lobby to silence its critics last year. Because we are just a bunch of dumb Christians who hate kids.

Great take, Sapper. Thank you for enhancing this discussion with your infinite wisdom. I'll be sure to consult you in the future when I need someone to tell my own personal motivations.

You're right that he doesn't care about actual scientific research, but I do want to at least make the point that the research is our there for anyone who is interested. Such as...

Multiple studies show that the use of hormone blockers appear to be beneficial to the mental health of trans teens.
Use of Hormone Blockers in Transgender Teenagers: A Scoping Review

Even so, the prescription of such medications to teens remains fairly rare.
Gender-Affirming Medications Among Transgender Adolescents in the US, 2018-2022

When teens who were given these medications were later surveyed, they showed a high degree of satisfaction with that care and low levels of regret.
Levels of Satisfaction and Regret With Gender-Affirming Medical Care in Adolescence

And as a reminder, puberty blockers have been used for other reasons for decades and are known to be generally safe with known side effects.
Approach to the Patient: Pharmacological Management of Trans and Gender-Diverse Adolescents

Fundamentally I think a large part of the "debate" on this subject is the implicit belief on the part of many conservatives that transgender people simply don't exist. That anyone who claims they are has been tricked or brainwashed or has a mental illness and that that persons feelings and beliefs are not valid. I suspect that is the root of our disagreement, and one I don't think these debates can bridge. Perhaps the only thing that can is real and sincere interactions with trans people about their experiences.

As a conservative, I see a man who says "I wish I'd been born a girl" like someone who says "I wish I'd been born rich". They may be sincere, but wishful thinking doesn't change reality.

You can grow your hair out, wear a skirt, and have surgery, but you still have XY chromosomes, and don't have the ability to get pregnant.

We don't even have common frame of reference. What does it mean that the right doesn't "believe trans people exist"? They exist, society at large just doesn't agree that they are the opposite sex of what they are. Why should society let them indulge harmful mental problems and mutilation, even as adults? Can someone explain what "trans people existing" is supposed to mean?

There is no trust in groups putting out data/studies in support of this, and the everyday person has no desire or time to do the work necessary to fully validate either side. So without trust in authority nor interest/time to validate, everyone is reverting back to good ole common sense.

Insert *Boys have a...girls have a..." gif* here

Can you show me the scientific study that proves we're separate and distinct from our bodies? I don't need to know anything about the studies. I know they're wrong because they begin by granting themselves a wrong premise rooted in an ancient heresy. They need to prove what people know about our nature as humans is wrong. Otherwise there's no malady. What are you curing or treating or whatever?

Sapper Redux said:

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Bob Lee said:

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Can you show me the scientific study that proves we're separate and distinct from our bodies? I don't need to know anything about the studies. I know they're wrong because they begin by granting themselves a wrong premise rooted in an ancient heresy. They need to prove what people know about our nature as humans is wrong. Otherwise there's no malady. What are you curing or treating or whatever?

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So because empirical science isn't validating your metaphysical beliefs they must be wrong. Stunning logic.

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None of it disproves an existing axiom. You have no evidence of any kind for your assertion that trans women ARE women is an ontological reality. All of it is ideological pseudoscience.

This is not a logical process:

Scientific publication publishes a survey that essentially asks if people have come to the realization that they ruined their lives yet? And then when most people say they don't regret their micro *****, inability to procreate, gaping wound where your reproductive organs used to be, etc, you think it's compelling evidence the law should permit it.

This is like asking women if she regrets her abortion. If she answers that she does, she's acknowledging she did something monstrous.

Sapper Redux said:

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Bob Lee said:

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Can you show me the scientific study that proves we're separate and distinct from our bodies? I don't need to know anything about the studies. I know they're wrong because they begin by granting themselves a wrong premise rooted in an ancient heresy. They need to prove what people know about our nature as humans is wrong. Otherwise there's no malady. What are you curing or treating or whatever?

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So because empirical science isn't validating your metaphysical beliefs they must be wrong. Stunning logic.

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Sapper frantically querying 8 different AI prompts for empirical evidence of Gnosticism.

Lol@"empirical science"

Like a little wind up doll, parotting what he's been programmed to say.

Bob Lee said:

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Sapper Redux said:

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Bob Lee said:

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Can you show me the scientific study that proves we're separate and distinct from our bodies? I don't need to know anything about the studies. I know they're wrong because they begin by granting themselves a wrong premise rooted in an ancient heresy. They need to prove what people know about our nature as humans is wrong. Otherwise there's no malady. What are you curing or treating or whatever?

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So because empirical science isn't validating your metaphysical beliefs they must be wrong. Stunning logic.

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None of it disproves an existing axiom. You have no evidence of any kind for your assertion that trans women ARE women is an ontological reality. All of it is ideological pseudoscience.

This is not a logical process:

Scientific publication publishes a survey that essentially asks if people have come to the realization that they ruined their lives yet? And then when most people say they don't regret their micro *****, inability to procreate, gaping wound where your reproductive organs used to be, etc, you think it's compelling evidence the law should permit it.

This is like asking women if she regrets her abortion. If she answers that she does, she's acknowledging she did something monstrous.

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Exactly. We should use questionnaires to study the efficacy of meth.

"Do you feel your life is better on meth?"

"Uh, yes."

Empirical Science wins again!

Now do the studies that show hormones blockers reduce cognitive functions.

Now do the studies where it shows hormones blockers reduce bone density.

Now do the studies that show hormones blockers lower reproductive capacity.

Tell the whole story.

Silent For Too Long said:

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Bob Lee said:

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Sapper Redux said:

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Bob Lee said:

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Can you show me the scientific study that proves we're separate and distinct from our bodies? I don't need to know anything about the studies. I know they're wrong because they begin by granting themselves a wrong premise rooted in an ancient heresy. They need to prove what people know about our nature as humans is wrong. Otherwise there's no malady. What are you curing or treating or whatever?

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So because empirical science isn't validating your metaphysical beliefs they must be wrong. Stunning logic.

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None of it disproves an existing axiom. You have no evidence of any kind for your assertion that trans women ARE women is an ontological reality. All of it is ideological pseudoscience.

This is not a logical process:

Scientific publication publishes a survey that essentially asks if people have come to the realization that they ruined their lives yet? And then when most people say they don't regret their micro *****, inability to procreate, gaping wound where your reproductive organs used to be, etc, you think it's compelling evidence the law should permit it.

This is like asking women if she regrets her abortion. If she answers that she does, she's acknowledging she did something monstrous.

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Exactly. We should use questionnaires to study the efficacy of meth.

"Do you feel your life is better on meth?"

"Uh, yes."

Empirical Science wins again!

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This meme works in so many ways in context