annie88 said:

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Aust Ag said:

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Nobody is calling Bill Shatner an astronaut.

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And he was captain of the Enterprise.

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He also flew on the Blue Origin a couple of years ago

I think the evolution of the term astronaut isn't really a bad thing. "Astronaut" used to connote a passenger on a life-or-death trip to space costing billions of dollars. As spaceflight is becoming more commonplace, so too the term astronaut should. It means spaceflight is getting more reliable and safer, makes complete sense that the number of people going to space would increase alongside. Hell, the past NASA Administrator went to space on the shuttle (as a member of the House, in a move many called a taxpayer-sponsored junket) and was so useless that other crew quietly referred to him as "ballast" more than an astronaut.

You can disagree with what altitude constitutes space, but if astronaut solely means "has been to space" then these people would qualify.

Aust Ag said:

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Nobody is calling Bill Shatner an astronaut.

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Aust Ag said:

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Can you imagine some idiot meeting Buzz Aldrin, and him saying "I was an astronaut", and then the idiot says back to him, "You mean like Katy Perry?"

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Buzz Aldrin would punch them in the face.

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Gayle King wants to be treated like a real astronaut: "Nobody calls it a ride if male astronauts goes to space"

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From leftist NPR

https://www.npr.org/2022/10/23/1130482740/william-shatner-jeff-bezos-space-travel-overview-effect

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William Shatner is probably the most famous astronaut in the world. But of course, he's not an astronaut. He's an actor. The 91-year-old Canadian has been an icon since he played Captain Kirk in the original Star Trek series, which debuted in 1966.

But Captain Kirk, er, William Shatner, did actually go to space last year, aboard a capsule piloted by Jeff Bezos's company Blue Origin.

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bthotugigem05 said:

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I think the evolution of the term astronaut isn't really a bad thing. "Astronaut" used to connote a passenger on a life-or-death trip to space costing billions of dollars. As spaceflight is becoming more commonplace, so too the term astronaut should. It means spaceflight is getting more reliable and safer, makes complete sense that the number of people going to space would increase alongside. Hell, the past NASA Administrator went to space on the shuttle (as a member of the House, in a move many called a taxpayer-sponsored junket) and was so useless that other crew quietly referred to him as "ballast" more than an astronaut.

You can disagree with what altitude constitutes space, but if astronaut solely means "has been to space" then these people would qualify.

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I disagree because I don't think of astronaut as just meaning "has been to space." Anyone we have heretofore called astronauts belong to a class of explorers - in terms of the boundaries of flight, new frontiers, or scientific inquiry. The Blue Origin passengers belong to a class of tourist and thrill-seekers.

Like Lewis & Clarke, I have also travelled to see the Pacific Ocean, but how and when I conducted that journey didn't make me the same type of person.

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I think the evolution of the term astronaut isn't really a bad thing. "Astronaut" used to connote a passenger on a life-or-death trip to space costing billions of dollars. As spaceflight is becoming more commonplace, so too the term astronaut should.

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Airline travel is incredibly commonplace. Man has experienced heavier-than-air, powered, controlled flight since the Wright brothers in December 1903, 124 years ago.

The back ends of airplanes are filled with people who go just as fast, just as high, and in the same ship as the guys in the pointy end. They don't influence the flight, they don't handle any controls, they don't conduct experiments. They sit in the back, eat peanuts, look out the window, and take selfies when they aren't sleeping. Just like the passengers on the Blue Origin ballistic shots.

Nobody is calling the girl in economy seat 15C a pilot.

You can buy an inch of Scottish land and become a nobleman too. But I don't expect you'll go around demanding people respect your coat of arms

Scott Manley is showing his true colors goal tending for the Blue Origin carnival ride

Sure most space nerds don't think NS-31's passengers are 'real astronauts' - but, I believe the New Shepard capsule may experience higher G-Loads that SpaceX's Dragon spacecraft (unless there's an anomaly).
Dragon comes in laterally and can use lift to control descent, New…

— Scott Manley (@DJSnM) April 15, 2025

If you think Jeff Bezos falling over after New Shepard landed is embarrassing just remember that Alan Shepard pissed his pants when flying to space and we still call him a hero. https://t.co/Jd5XuzWmh0 pic.twitter.com/U0EuD7zjFT

— Scott Manley (@DJSnM) April 16, 2025

And also after Elon did his gesture of love towards Trump voters, Manley asked why can't Elon denounce Nazis.

Seems to be a growing pattern with him.

Didn't Alan Shepard piss his pants because he spent hours on the launchpad because of delays? I think he asked permission from ground as well.

Aust Ag said:

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Nobody is calling Bill Shatner an astronaut.

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I saw this on a video earlier in the week... When women do things (and they were talking about women on the job) it's about the social aspect... about their achievement. When men do something, it's to get something done.

CanyonAg77 said:

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Quote:

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I think the evolution of the term astronaut isn't really a bad thing. "Astronaut" used to connote a passenger on a life-or-death trip to space costing billions of dollars. As spaceflight is becoming more commonplace, so too the term astronaut should.

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Airline travel is incredibly commonplace. Man has experienced heavier-than-air, powered, controlled flight since the Wright brothers in December 1903, 124 years ago.

The back ends of airplanes are filled with people who go just as fast, just as high, and in the same ship as the guys in the pointy end. They don't influence the flight, they don't handle any controls, they don't conduct experiments. They sit in the back, eat peanuts, look out the window, and take selfies when they aren't sleeping. Just like the passengers on the Blue Origin ballistic shots.

Nobody is calling the girl in economy seat 15C a pilot.

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Fair point, truly. But Alan Shepherd didn't do much more than sit back in the seat and look out the window during his 15-minute suborbital flight either.

I think the sentiment around what the word astronaut means to the public is what people are battling about, and it's a worthwhile conversation. I don't think anyone would rationally compare Katy Perry and Alan Shepherd as equals, the risk profiles were just so different.

The technical definition of astronaut is outdated, like most technical definitions. I just don't know where to draw the line now.

Also what I truly like about this thread, for being on F16, is that we had a similar convo back when Shatner went up too, and Bezos before that. Has nothing to do with the most recent flight being full of females.

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Fair point, truly. But Alan Shepherd didn't do much more than sit back in the seat and look out the window during his 15-minute suborbital flight either.

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He controlled the spacecraft position. The astronauts fought hard to have manual controls on the ship.

He was also riding a missile that was built to carry a nuclear warhead, and was designed in 1953. Riding a booster that was purpose-designed for human flight using technology that has had almost 75 years to mature isn't comparable.

The Redstone was basically a V-2 without a Swastika

Being a passenger on a Wright Flyer in 1905 was dangerous. Riding an airliner in 1980 was not.

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The technical definition of astronaut is outdated, like most technical definitions. I just don't know where to draw the line now.

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Disagree.

Astronauts are still astronauts, passengers are still passengers.

If you want a term for passengers that ride into space, come up with one.

Dirty_Mike&the_boys said:

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annie88 said:

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Aust Ag said:

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Nobody is calling Bill Shatner an astronaut.

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And he was captain of the Enterprise.

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He also flew on the Blue Origin a couple of years ago

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Oh yeah, I forgot. But yeah, the whole thing is just silliness.

I think that will eventually be what they're called, passengers. Blue Origin really leaned into the PR element (partially because of the FAA definition) of calling their passengers astronauts.

CanyonAg77 said:

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Quote:

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Fair point, truly. But Alan Shepherd didn't do much more than sit back in the seat and look out the window during his 15-minute suborbital flight either.

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He controlled the spacecraft position. The astronauts fought hard to have manual controls on the ship.

He was also riding a missile that was built to carry a nuclear warhead, and was designed in 1953. Riding a booster that was purpose-designed for human flight using technology that has had almost 75 years to mature isn't comparable.

The Redstone was basically a V-2 without a Swastika

Being a passenger on a Wright Flyer in 1905 was dangerous. Riding an airliner in 1980 was not.

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The technical definition of astronaut is outdated, like most technical definitions. I just don't know where to draw the line now.

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Disagree.

Astronauts are still astronauts, passengers are still passengers.

If you want a term for passengers that ride into space, come up with one.

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Astrohikers

CanyonAg77 said:

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If you want a term for passengers that ride into space, come up with one.

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Payload

TexAgs91 said:

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CanyonAg77 said:

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If you want a term for passengers that ride into space, come up with one.

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Payload

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Ballast

Decay said:

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You can buy an inch of Scottish land and become a nobleman too. But I don't expect you'll go around demanding people respect your coat of arms

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You mean my official Tennessee Squire status isn't really worth much?

If I take a cruise across the Atlantic can I say I am Christopher Columbus?

First Minotaur IV launch since 2020. The solid rocket motors are from decommissioned Peacekeeper ICBMs.

A cloak and dagger launch of a Minotaur IV rocket at 12:33pm PDT from Vandenberg Space Force Base - on the way to orbit with a classified NRO payload.

No webcast, but this camera from @ALERTCalifornia shows the telltale solid rocket motor exhaust plume. pic.twitter.com/ckvD8wckyx

— Stephen Clark (@StephenClark1) April 16, 2025

Looks like payload was the classified NROL-174 mission for the NRO.

TexAgs91 said:

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Scott Manley is showing his true colors goal tending for the Blue Origin carnival ride

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Here's a chart he posted later



Maximum is late reentry, 5.12g

Fighter pilots can pull up to 9g for a short time

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shock_Wave_(Six_Flags_Over_Texas)

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G-force 5.9

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Iraq2xVeteran said:

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It's ridiculous how this celebrity sightseeing tour is receiving more attention than the rescue of the true astronauts received after months of being stranded on the ISS.

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They weren't "rescued" not were they "stranded for months". The transferred to the ISS Crew in August and knew when they would return home at that time.

The Kraken said:

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Iraq2xVeteran said:

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It's ridiculous how this celebrity sightseeing tour is receiving more attention than the rescue of the true astronauts received after months of being stranded on the ISS.

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They weren't "rescued" not were they "stranded for months". The transferred to the ISS Crew in August and knew when they would return home at that time.

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Ok

TexAgs91 said:

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Scott Manley is showing his true colors goal tending for the Blue Origin carnival ride

Sure most space nerds don't think NS-31's passengers are 'real astronauts' - but, I believe the New Shepard capsule may experience higher G-Loads that SpaceX's Dragon spacecraft (unless there's an anomaly).
Dragon comes in laterally and can use lift to control descent, New…

— Scott Manley (@DJSnM) April 15, 2025

If you think Jeff Bezos falling over after New Shepard landed is embarrassing just remember that Alan Shepard pissed his pants when flying to space and we still call him a hero. https://t.co/Jd5XuzWmh0 pic.twitter.com/U0EuD7zjFT

— Scott Manley (@DJSnM) April 16, 2025

And also after Elon did his gesture of love towards Trump voters, Manley asked why can't Elon denounce Nazis.

Seems to be a growing pattern with him.

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Manley definitely has TDS and also an emergent strain of EDS. That guy has turned into a caricature of a space expert

torrid said:

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Aust Ag said:

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Can you imagine some idiot meeting Buzz Aldrin, and him saying "I was an astronaut", and then the idiot says back to him, "You mean like Katy Perry?"

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Buzz Aldrin would punch them in the face.

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The greatest thing Buzz ever did was punch that guy who called him a liar.

2025 we've seen the first ever TV advertisement for passenger space flight.

Elon trying to save the USA from going bankrupt, digging tunnels, dealing with a bsc baby mamma, constructing humanoid robots, running X/Xai, building EVs, selling internet via satellite and working on a manned mission to mars.

Meanwhile you got Bezos launching his big-titted wife and her girlfriends into space.

What a time to be alive baby! The future is NOW!

double aught said:

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torrid said:

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Aust Ag said:

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Can you imagine some idiot meeting Buzz Aldrin, and him saying "I was an astronaut", and then the idiot says back to him, "You mean like Katy Perry?"

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Buzz Aldrin would punch them in the face.

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The greatest thing Buzz ever did was punch that guy who called him a liar.

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Are they considering late April perhaps?

It looks like they are squeezing the opened area to better design the integrated Hot Stage on V2 Boosters.
Looking at the symmetry, it could confirm the unequally distributed Raptor Vacuums (with 3 pairs of 2 RVacs instead of 6 equally distributed)

— Lucas (@LucasDaRiYv) April 16, 2025

Another 'alien planet found teeming with life' claim. Anyway, it's great to see JWST gathering such data that previously we…couldn't.

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'Given everything we know about this planet, a Hycean world with an ocean that is teeming with life is the scenario that best fits the data we have.'
He said that while the results are exciting, it's vital to obtain more data before claiming that life has been found on another world.
And while he is cautiously optimistic, there could be previously unknown chemical processes at work on K2-18b that may account for the findings.
Further observations from the JWST are needed to help confirm their results are not due to chance.
His team are also hoping to conduct further experiments to determine whether DMS and DMDS can be produced non-biologically at the level currently detected.
'Decades from now, we may look back at this point in time and recognise it was when the living universe came within reach,' Professor Madhusudhan said.
'This could be the tipping point, where suddenly the fundamental question of whether we're alone in the universe is one we're capable of answering.'
To determine the chemical composition of the atmospheres of faraway planets, astronomers analyse the light from its parent star as the planet transits, or passes in front of the star.

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35 overnight posts. Non-launch activity record. Didn't disappoint.

I've seen enough of this Gale King b**** trying to compare her "ride" with Alan Shepard's flight on Freedom 7. Let's compare the differences in the capsules interiors.

Shepard had actual flight controls he had to deal with. Shepard had an actual preflight checklist and he had the old school buss circuits that had to be manually actuated open or close in sequence, there was no automation. He had actual avionics onboard he had to read off. They put him into space with slide rules and number two pencils, not laptops.

Blue Origin has nothing. They are sitting in recliners along for the ride.

Ge back to me with this who "astronaut" thing when they start wearing something besides bell bottom designer pants and zippered tops that were zipped down to show cleavage.

They literally changed the BO "flight suit" to designer clothing for this.

It was a tourist jaunt made for instagram videos.

Now is the SpaceX paid rides for 3 days any different? At least they have to wear a real suit in case of an emergency.

Mathguy64 said:

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Ge back to me with this who "astronaut" thing when they start wearing something besides bell bottom designer pants and zippered tops that were zipped down to show cleavage.

They literally changed the BO "flight suit" to designer clothing for this.

It was a tourist jaunt made for instagram videos.

Now is the SpaceX paid rides for 3 days any different? At least they have to wear a real suit in case of an emergency.

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I would say that going into actual orbit is a big difference.

That leaves some grey area for a definition to form. Where should the line be? I think just crossing the Karman line is a pretty poor limit, especially in today's space game.

Honestly, I think the best delimiter of whether you are an astronaut is if you pay or get paid to go into space and whether that's your profession.