Does Ukraine have the ability to build and send a few hundred a night back into Russia? Im sure they have recovered a number of them by now and can easily reverse engineer them. Are there Russian cities within range?

CS78 said:

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Does Ukraine have the ability to build and send a few hundred a night back into Russia? Im sure they have recovered a number of them by now and can easily reverse engineer them. Are there Russian cities within range?

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Ukraine is producing over a million drones of all classes each year. The long-range versions have been attacking targets deep inside Russian for a long time but with so many targets so far away it has been difficult to consistently inflict meaningful damage.

In contrast, Russian drones have much less distance to traverse to concentrate on fewer targets inside Ukraine and Putin has no scruples indiscriminately pounding civilian areas whether or not they contain legitimate military targets.

Quote:

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Drones are attacking airfield in Millerovo of Rostov region

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https://liveuamap.com/en/2025/21-july-18-drones-are-attacking-airfield-in-millerovo-of

Ukrainian drones have struck the military airfield in Millerovo, Rostov region https://t.co/NNDanhyLKH pic.twitter.com/UWjboAX9vp

— NOELREPORTS 🇪🇺 🇺🇦 (@NOELreports) July 21, 2025

This sadly could devolve further into an almost dehumanizing constant exchange of as many drones as each side can buy and manufacture and what they are willing to target with them, respectively.

This may need to result in another convention on warfare before it gets totally out of hand.

Imagine 10,000 drone waves being launched.on a single urban area. I know people have quipped about Terminator becoming reality but you don't necessarily need the AI part when two states go into wartime mass production of cheap drones and go all out after eachother.

MouthBQ98 said:

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This sadly could devolve further into an almost dehumanizing constant exchange of as many drones as each side can buy and manufacture and what they are willing to target with them, respectively.

This may need to result in another convention on warfare before it gets totally out of hand.

Imagine 10,000 drone waves being launched.on a single urban area. I know people have quipped about Terminator becoming reality but you don't necessarily need the AI part when two states go into wartime mass production of cheap drones and go all out after eachother.

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May not have to imagine it for long if we keep letting the Chinese buy large parcels of land next to our air force bases. I doubt the Ukrainians were the only ones capable of coming up with the idea of assembling hundreds of drones and launching them a few miles from an airbase.

Germany to help provide Ukraine with an additional five Patriot air defense systems and other notes.

UPDATES

MouthBQ98 said:

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This sadly could devolve further into an almost dehumanizing constant exchange of as many drones as each side can buy and manufacture and what they are willing to target with them, respectively.

This may need to result in another convention on warfare before it gets totally out of hand.

Imagine 10,000 drone waves being launched.on a single urban area. I know people have quipped about Terminator becoming reality but you don't necessarily need the AI part when two states go into wartime mass production of cheap drones and go all out after eachother.

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The existing conventions on warfare cover the use of drones. After all, they are just another form of indirect fire and the rules covering it apply to drones. Whether ten or 10,000 are launched, those principles must be adhered to and Russia's indiscriminate targeting of civilian areas with drones, missiles and bombs is already a war crime.

74OA said:

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MouthBQ98 said:

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This sadly could devolve further into an almost dehumanizing constant exchange of as many drones as each side can buy and manufacture and what they are willing to target with them, respectively.

This may need to result in another convention on warfare before it gets totally out of hand.

Imagine 10,000 drone waves being launched.on a single urban area. I know people have quipped about Terminator becoming reality but you don't necessarily need the AI part when two states go into wartime mass production of cheap drones and go all out after eachother.

---

The existing conventions on warfare cover the use of drones. After all, they are just another form of indirect fire and the rules covering it apply to drones. Whether ten or 10,000 are launched, those principles must be adhered to and Russia's indiscriminate targeting of civilian areas with drones, missiles and bombs is already a war crime.

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For which they will apparently never be held accountable.

txags92 said:

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74OA said:

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MouthBQ98 said:

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This sadly could devolve further into an almost dehumanizing constant exchange of as many drones as each side can buy and manufacture and what they are willing to target with them, respectively.

This may need to result in another convention on warfare before it gets totally out of hand.

Imagine 10,000 drone waves being launched.on a single urban area. I know people have quipped about Terminator becoming reality but you don't necessarily need the AI part when two states go into wartime mass production of cheap drones and go all out after eachother.

---

The existing conventions on warfare cover the use of drones. After all, they are just another form of indirect fire and the rules covering it apply to drones. Whether ten or 10,000 are launched, those principles must be adhered to and Russia's indiscriminate targeting of civilian areas with drones, missiles and bombs is already a war crime.

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For which they will apparently never be held accountable.

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Perhaps not directly in a court of law. But every package of aid to Ukraine and every additional round of sanctions makes Russia pay a price for its barbarity.

txags92 said:

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aezmvp said:

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They'll be a part but it's very similar to Battle of Britain stuff imho. You have to have them in place and then direct them and you'll get some but a lot will get through. And you'll see strategies like decoys that will go in to pull your interceptors away and so forth. And as the tech on the drones gets better (faster) the harder it will be. You'll see more AI targeting assistance at that point as the attack drones will start performing more evasive maneuvers once they know interceptors are in the area.

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The problem with decoying the Russian drones is that you can't just throw up a fake apartment building in the countryside. As long as they are indiscriminately attacking Ukranian cities, knocking them down is the only real way to stop them. The problem with lasers is getting them line of sight to the target without making the laser turret a sitting duck too. I would be a big fan of us giving the Ukes the tech/weapons necessary to go after the drone manufacturing sites in Russia.

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No, opposite decoys. Russians launch a wave of drones simulating an attack on a certain vector meant to take interceptors away.

Nice thing about drones is it is far easier to disperse them, far less infrastructure needed (ie no airfields). Bad thing is dispersal also means that you're more vulnerable to swarms. So yeah I'd probably send in a fake wave or two then send the wave I'm really targeting. Maybe layer them part of the way to try and disguise the number and true targets. I'm obviously a layman and not briefed on the technical sides but that seems like a pretty obvious response to interceptors. Wouldn't be surprised to se "fighter" drones in the extremely near future. Probably cannon rounds.

lb3 said:

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Russian blogger “Mad Dogs” describes the deadly tactics of Ukrainian FPV teams.

“Enemy Methods: How They Lure Us into an FPV

The enemy has become craftier—they no longer fire indiscriminately but operate with pauses, like experienced hunters. They fire, then lie low.
1/ https://t.co/JczQf8SUD4 pic.twitter.com/gMZEGpIPBf

— Roy🇨🇦 (@GrandpaRoy2) July 20, 2025

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They fly on autopilot, don't emit any signals, and EW has simply nothing to jam. And 1015 seconds before the strike, the operator engagesand then it's too late to cry over spilled milk.

aezmvp said:

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txags92 said:

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aezmvp said:

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They'll be a part but it's very similar to Battle of Britain stuff imho. You have to have them in place and then direct them and you'll get some but a lot will get through. And you'll see strategies like decoys that will go in to pull your interceptors away and so forth. And as the tech on the drones gets better (faster) the harder it will be. You'll see more AI targeting assistance at that point as the attack drones will start performing more evasive maneuvers once they know interceptors are in the area.

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The problem with decoying the Russian drones is that you can't just throw up a fake apartment building in the countryside. As long as they are indiscriminately attacking Ukranian cities, knocking them down is the only real way to stop them. The problem with lasers is getting them line of sight to the target without making the laser turret a sitting duck too. I would be a big fan of us giving the Ukes the tech/weapons necessary to go after the drone manufacturing sites in Russia.

---

No, opposite decoys. Russians launch a wave of drones simulating an attack on a certain vector meant to take interceptors away.

Nice thing about drones is it is far easier to disperse them, far less infrastructure needed (ie no airfields). Bad thing is dispersal also means that you're more vulnerable to swarms. So yeah I'd probably send in a fake wave or two then send the wave I'm really targeting. Maybe layer them part of the way to try and disguise the number and true targets. I'm obviously a layman and not briefed on the technical sides but that seems like a pretty obvious response to interceptors. Wouldn't be surprised to se "fighter" drones in the extremely near future. Probably cannon rounds.

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Drone Moves-Countermoves: TACTICS

Russia is using a new drone made entirely from Chinese components.

"The drone in question is a new decoy Russia is using to overwhelm Ukrainian air defenses, according to GUR. The delta-winged weapon loosely resembles the infamous Shahed 136 drone, but is much smaller, according to GUR. In addition to serving as a decoy, this drone may also pack a warhead weighing up to 15 kilos (about 33 pounds)."

CHINA

Protests have erupted tonight in the Ukrainian capital of Kyiv as well as several other major cities across Ukraine, after the Verkhovna Rada (Ukrainian Parliament) passed and President Zelensky signed into a law a bill which would shift the control and oversight of… pic.twitter.com/QJNb0bknzf

— OSINTdefender (@sentdefender) July 23, 2025

Ukraine received specialized vehicles to support its F-16 fleet as it hides in dispersed locations.

"Come Back Alive, a charitable foundation in Ukraine, announced the delivery of two sets of vehicles primarily intended to help with munitions handling and maintenance of F-16s, as well as a mobile command post to support mission planning tasks, yesterday."

SURVIVING

The US has approved the sale of equipment to Ukraine for the repair of Bradley infantry fighting vehicles, as well as HAWK Phase III air defense systems worth $322 million.

— Clash Report (@clashreport) July 23, 2025

BREAKING:

More and more Ukrainian suicide drones are hitting targets in the Russian city of Sochi tonight.

The fuel depot near Sochi International depot is one fire pic.twitter.com/QQseCEqnxL

— Visegrád 24 (@visegrad24) July 23, 2025

Ukraine now beating Russia at its own drone game with better fiber-optics.

"Ukraine's fiber drones are already more reliable, more efficient and can hit targets at longer ranges than their Russian counterparts. Zhulinskiy estimates that around 10% of Ukrainian drones are currently fiber, a figure which is rising fast.

"Our goal is to scale up production to at least 10,000 drones per month and make the products as cheap and effective as possible, giving the military abundant, efficient tools for many missions," says Zhulinskiy."

DRONE WARS

Russian drone ambushes Ukrainian war buggy and gets shot out of the air. Life on the frontlines.

CHASE

74OA said:

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Russian drone ambushes Ukrainian war buggy and gets shot out of the air. Life on the frontlines.

CHASE

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Russians would have ran over it.

Quote:

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Russian Ministry of Defense claims full occupation of Zvirove and Novoekonomichne of Donetsk region of Ukraine

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https://liveuamap.com/en/2025/24-july-15-russian-ministry-of-defense-claims-full-occupation

Chinese Drone Engines Labeled As "Cooling Units" Sent To Russia Via Covert Supply Chain https://t.co/V9YJXuEBwr

— zerohedge (@zerohedge) July 25, 2025

'Human cooling units'

Ukraine is set to receive three additional Patriot systems. Two from Germany and one from Norway.

I'm assuming those countries will then order replacements from the US.

Anyone got a good count on how many total Patriot systems Ukraine will have, including these three?

UPDATES

74OA said:

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Ukraine is set to receive three additional Patriot systems. Two from Germany and one from Norway.

I'm assuming those countries will then order replacements from the US.

Anyone got a good count on how many total Patriot systems Ukraine will have, including these three?

UPDATES

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6 or 7 so 9 or 10.

TommyBrady said:

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74OA said:

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Ukraine is set to receive three additional Patriot systems. Two from Germany and one from Norway.

I'm assuming those countries will then order replacements from the US.

Anyone got a good count on how many total Patriot systems Ukraine will have, including these three?

UPDATES

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6 or 7 so 9 or 10.

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Ok. That was my guesstimate, too..........

The situation on one of the flanks has severely deteriorated as of today, and unfortunately, there appears to be a degree of underreporting or downplaying of the situation at the official level.

One way to help or provide relief is by supplying drones to the units there: https://t.co/vyKUNJx1Tv

— Tatarigami_UA (@Tatarigami_UA) July 25, 2025

.@guardian: [C]omponent and manufacturing equipment supply for Shaheds has improved. “China is more directly providing components to Russia,” said @KatStepanenko, from @TheStudyofWar, probably aided by a direct rail link to China near Yelabuga. “Integration of Chinese components,… pic.twitter.com/C9SgCZcvN4

— Institute for the Study of War (@TheStudyofWar) July 25, 2025

Great Read.
https://instagr.am/p/DMhx-G4IUGU

Waffledynamics said:

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.@guardian: [C]omponent and manufacturing equipment supply for Shaheds has improved. “China is more directly providing components to Russia,” said @KatStepanenko, from @TheStudyofWar, probably aided by a direct rail link to China near Yelabuga. “Integration of Chinese components,… pic.twitter.com/C9SgCZcvN4

— Institute for the Study of War (@TheStudyofWar) July 25, 2025

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China is now providing all the components to build entire large drones. Only assembly required.

BACKDOOR

Signs Russia’s Using New R-77M Air-To-Air Missile In Ukraine

The long-range R-77M air-to-air missile, a much-improved version of the AA-12 Adder, appears to have been used in combat.

Story: https://t.co/hKrlx1FefB

— The War Zone (@thewarzonewire) July 25, 2025

Quote:

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Whatever the status of the izdeliye 180-PD, the apparent fielding of the R-77M provides a major advance in capability over the R-77-1, which was previously Russia's standard active-radar air-to-air missile.

Douglas Barrie, the Senior Fellow for Military Aerospace at the International Institute for Strategic Studies (IISS) think-tank, told TWZ that the R-77 (which appears to have the NATO codename AA-12c Adder) "is a key air-to-air missile program for the Russian Air Force" and "a significant upgrade" over the R-77-1.

"The weapon should offer a notable increase in range, seeker performance, and countermeasures resistance," Barrie said. "It would be little surprise if, and it remains an if, the VKS were testing the missile in a combat environment in Ukraine."

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This likely/perhaps is the cause of the dispersion/hiding of the MLU F-16's in Ukraine, recently.

⚡️ EU cuts next Ukraine Facility aid tranche over delayed reforms.

Ukraine had aimed to receive 4.5 billion euros ($5.2 billion) in the fourth installment, the largest so far, but will instead receive 3.05 billion euros ($3.5 billion).https://t.co/W4IxL7kD0e

— The Kyiv Independent (@KyivIndependent) July 25, 2025

lb3 said:

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Russia swarming 400-800 drones per attack would be difficult for anyone to counter. The answer is to attack their drone production and munitions stores so they can't stockpile a week's worth of production. But Ukraine just doesn't have the reach to take them out.

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I have little to no knowledge in these matters, that said, is there any intensive work being done developing electromotive force to knock down wide swaths of drones?

Like microwaves? Yeah, but that's not going to stop these. They can fly high and out of range and then dive bomb a target or get back low once out of range. They're also networked with each other and other SIGINT or EW drones so they can tell each other what air defense they encounter and where so drones in the same wave can avoid or go around them.

The best counter is some way to get a cheap kinetic kill, but that's easier said than done.

ABATTBQ11 said:

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Like microwaves? Yeah, but that's not going to stop these. They can fly high and out of range and then dive bomb a target or get back low once out of range. They're also networked with each other and other SIGINT or EW drones so they can tell each other what air defense they encounter and where so drones in the same wave can avoid or go around them.

The best counter is some way to get a cheap kinetic kill, but that's easier said than done.

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There's no defense against steel.

Updated map showing Russian advances near Myrnohrad, Kupyansk, Kostyantynivka, and on the Zaporizhzhia front. Ukraine's 225th Assault Regiment took back Kindrativka in Sumy oblast.https://t.co/vGOFlr5jAShttps://t.co/1OJU656e8a https://t.co/2zcFluqIMk pic.twitter.com/noKFb05p21

— Rob Lee (@RALee85) July 25, 2025

Quote:

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Drones have attacked building of regional administration in Sumy region

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https://liveuamap.com/en/2025/26-july-11-drones-have-attacked-building-of-regional-administration