private biz jobs lost last month - first decline in 2 years per ADP

3,285 Views | 40 Replies | Last: 2 days ago by MaroonStain
Logos Stick
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This is how you grow your way to smaller deficits.

Quote:

Private businesses in the US shed 33K jobs in June 2025, the first decline since March 2023, compared to a downwardly revised 29K in May and well below forecasts of an employment gain of 95K.



https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/adp-employment-change
doubledog
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When you start reporting accurate numbers then this is what you see... Fluctuations due to seasonal change.
Sims
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AG
Logos Stick said:

This is how you grow your way to smaller deficits.


I think you should check what sectors lost and what sectors gained. It may mediate your snark a bit.

To be more clear - the gain/loss would appear to be the exact changes Trump would have targeted via tariffs. It's very likely the 60k loss in professional services is related to AI trends.
Logos Stick
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I thought the goal was to bring back manufacturing jobs, not kill service sector jobs while doing it. Interesting. Also, the tariffs have had little, if any impact on local sourcing at this point. It's coincidental imo.


eta: although I do agree that AI is having an impact, contrary to the opinion of most.
Logos Stick
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doubledog said:

When you start reporting accurate numbers then this is what you see... Fluctuations due to seasonal change.


ADP is private. June has the lowest layoffs on average of any month; it's not seasonal losses.
Mr.Milkshake
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Wonder why market is at ATHs?
Gaeilge
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Quote:

Job losses in professional and business services, and education and health services led the decline
$100 says these positions were NGOs supported by USAID funds.
DannyDuberstein
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AG
Gaeilge said:

Quote:

Job losses in professional and business services, and education and health services led the decline
$100 says these positions were NGOs supported by USAID funds.


This right here. "Private" my ass
Rocky Rider
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"$100 says these positions were NGOs supported by taxpayer funds."

FIFY
infinity ag
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The job market has been bad and bad for 2+ years. Biden fudged the numbers and Trump does not seem to care.

Let's stop shipping jobs to other countries so locals can have a realistic first shot at good high paying jobs. All countries do this.

BAN H1B.


halfastros81
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AG
Your'e both right . You might as well say funded by fiat $ which we all pay for in the form of inflation, net positive taxpayers and otherwise.
Ghost of Andrew Eaton
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These discussions get so much more nuanced when "your guy" is in office. I wish it was that way for all discussion.


And shut up, I voted for Trump.
If you say you hate the state of politics in this nation and you don't get involved in it, you obviously don't hate the state of politics in this nation.
DCAggie13y
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AG
https://www.cnbc.com/2025/07/02/adp-jobs-report-june-2025.html

"To be sure, the ADP report has a spotty track record on predicting the subsequent government jobs report, which investors tend to weigh more heavily. May's soft ADP data ended up differing significantly from the monthly jobs report figures that came later in the week."

Wouldn't put much stock in this report. Not considered reliable.
Loren Visser
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When will these numbers be unexpectedly revised?
Logos Stick
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DCAggie13y said:

https://www.cnbc.com/2025/07/02/adp-jobs-report-june-2025.html

"To be sure, the ADP report has a spotty track record on predicting the subsequent government jobs report, which investors tend to weigh more heavily. May's soft ADP data ended up differing significantly from the monthly jobs report figures that came later in the week."

Wouldn't put much stock in this report. Not considered reliable.

Well, I don't believe the government numbers.
Sims
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DCAggie13y said:

https://www.cnbc.com/2025/07/02/adp-jobs-report-june-2025.html

"To be sure, the ADP report has a spotty track record on predicting the subsequent government jobs report, which investors tend to weigh more heavily. May's soft ADP data ended up differing significantly from the monthly jobs report figures that came later in the week."

Wouldn't put much stock in this report. Not considered reliable.
ADP is much more accurate.

ADP uses actual real payroll information from their clients.

The BLS report is voluntary and has declining participation rates for the last decade or so. So you have a smaller and smaller active sample that is then extrapolated across a larger unknown pool of potential results.

The only time the BLS surveys are correct is when companies are statutorily required to report on headcounts.

The reason the ADP report has a spotty track record of predicting the subsequent government jobs report is because the subsequent government jobs report is usually full of BS.

ETA: Before you highlight the fact that "investors tend to weigh (the BLS numbers) more heavily"...This is because that is what moves that Federal Reserve and ultimately investors should be more concerned about Fed stimulus than they are truth in employment numbers based on our current market structure. It's a game theory function of common knowledge - everyone knows the BLS number influences the Fed and everyone knows that everyone knows that the BLS number influences the Fed. Therefore, it's more often traded upon than the ADP figures...accuracy be damned.
aggiehawg
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AG
ICE doing work.
akm91
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Yeah the methodologies differ between the two reports so not surprising they don't track.
BigRobSA
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akm91 said:

Yeah the methodologies differ between the two reports so not surprising they don't track.

Yep.

One is put out by liars, the other is ADP.
DCAggie13y
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Sims said:

DCAggie13y said:

https://www.cnbc.com/2025/07/02/adp-jobs-report-june-2025.html

"To be sure, the ADP report has a spotty track record on predicting the subsequent government jobs report, which investors tend to weigh more heavily. May's soft ADP data ended up differing significantly from the monthly jobs report figures that came later in the week."

Wouldn't put much stock in this report. Not considered reliable.
ADP is much more accurate.

ADP uses actual real payroll information from their clients.

The BLS report is voluntary and has declining participation rates for the last decade or so. So you have a smaller and smaller active sample that is then extrapolated across a larger unknown pool of potential results.

The only time the BLS surveys are correct is when companies are statutorily required to report on headcounts.

The reason the ADP report has a spotty track record of predicting the subsequent government jobs report is because the subsequent government jobs report is usually full of BS.

ETA: Before you highlight the fact that "investors tend to weigh (the BLS numbers) more heavily"...This is because that is what moves that Federal Reserve and ultimately investors should be more concerned about Fed stimulus than they are truth in employment numbers based on our current market structure. It's a game theory function of common knowledge - everyone knows the BLS number influences the Fed and everyone knows that everyone knows that the BLS number influences the Fed. Therefore, it's more often traded upon than the ADP figures...accuracy be damned.


You night be right but ChatGPT disagrees.

"The BLS jobs report is considered more accurate and definitive than the ADP report, especially when it comes to the full picture of employment in the U.S. However, the ADP report is faster and still offers valuable insights, especially into the private sector."

Also makes sense that ADP is private sector only and we know a lot of the job growth under Biden was purely government.
Sims
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If someone has done a retro analysis of BLS Establishment, BLS Household, ADP and QCEW results...that would be very helpful.

Different methodologies all pointing at a similar result. ADP doesn't track government employment and since that is about 20% of the workforce, it would be understandable with a discrepancy on account of government jobs.

ADP used to function as a predictor of BLS but they rebuilt the model in 2022 and now it is a standalone metric - it's not meant to reconcile to the BLS reports.
Queso1
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Most of this residual crap is due to the Covid disaster. Trump has blame in this. Biden exacerbated it. I also blame all the idiots that supported the shut down and the nonsense- you know who you are.

The piper has to be paid, and I don't think we have the resources.
McNasty
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Mr.Milkshake said:

Wonder why market is at ATHs?


My guess: inflation causing even flat sales to show increased earnings, in addition to people wanting to hold stocks or anything but a declining dollar
flown-the-coop
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Queso1 said:

Most of this residual crap is due to the Covid disaster. Trump has blame in this. Biden exacerbated it. I also blame all the idiots that supported the shut down and the nonsense- you know who you are.

The piper has to be paid, and I don't think we have the resources.
Who is piper?
Queso1
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flown-the-coop said:

Queso1 said:

Most of this residual crap is due to the Covid disaster. Trump has blame in this. Biden exacerbated it. I also blame all the idiots that supported the shut down and the nonsense- you know who you are.

The piper has to be paid, and I don't think we have the resources.
Who is piper?


Definitions from Oxford Languages Learn more
phrase of piper
bear the consequences of an action or activity that one has enjoyed.
"we will have to pay the piper, and the price is apt to be a high one"
Max Stonetrail
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Sims said:

Logos Stick said:

This is how you grow your way to smaller deficits.


I think you should check what sectors lost and what sectors gained. It may mediate your snark a bit.

To be more clear - the gain/loss would appear to be the exact changes Trump would have targeted via tariffs. It's very likely the 60k loss in professional services is related to AI trends.
It is not AI, that is just a popular scapegoat and easy for managers to use and not be questioned or have to provide a bunch of performance documentation. Most of those professional services jobs are in the big tech arena and these are bloated departments finally shedding headcount from the post Covid hoarding of resources.

We still are not back to the 2019 levels of layoffs and that was when the economy was roaring.
Sims
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Possibly. I've lost 1 person in my FP&A group and 1 in accounting group, neither roles we backfilled and a lot of their processes were automated with copilot agents. Right now we're implementing tools to automate the retrieval and processing of mill certs when we are receiving steel plate - ultimately we'll have the two people currently running that process do something else that requires more experience & skill. I'd say 90% of our accounts payable is now processed without the need to manually review invoices. I get that AI & machine learning are independent processes but they're used commonly to represent the same automation process.

I'm sure a lot of people are using it as a scapegoat. I'm using it to scale administrative functions without increasing headcount.
flown-the-coop
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Queso1 said:

flown-the-coop said:

Queso1 said:

Most of this residual crap is due to the Covid disaster. Trump has blame in this. Biden exacerbated it. I also blame all the idiots that supported the shut down and the nonsense- you know who you are.

The piper has to be paid, and I don't think we have the resources.
Who is piper?


Definitions from Oxford Languages Learn more
phrase of piper
bear the consequences of an action or activity that one has enjoyed.
"we will have to pay the piper, and the price is apt to be a high one"

Didn't answer the question and like most of us past elementary school story time, we understand the saying.

But who is the piper here?
ts5641
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This is good news so it's biden's economy.
Queso1
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AG
The piper is the consequences of reckless spending, money printing and endless war.
flown-the-coop
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Queso1 said:

The piper is the consequences of reckless spending, money printing and endless war.


Okay. So you don't have any sort of answer, just the sky is falling.

Just wanted to make sure I understood you.
BigRobSA
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Queso1 said:

Most of this residual crap is due to the Covid disaster. Trump has blame in this. Biden exacerbated it. I also blame all the idiots that supported the shut down and the nonsense- you know who you are.

The piper has to be paid, and I don't think we have the resources.
Hopefully he takes BTC, because the liberals(GOP) and the Dems are taking the dollar down with their idiocy, like the BuildBackBetter2 bill
LMCane
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which is more important-

an ADP weekly report?

or the monthly US Government Jobs report?

147,000 new jobs created in June.

do the leftists now come back and admit they were wrong about tariffs destroying the stock market and DOGE leading to a recession?
DCAggie13y
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LMCane said:

which is more important-

an ADP weekly report?

or the monthly US Government Jobs report?

147,000 new jobs created in June.

do the leftists now come back and admit they were wrong about tariffs destroying the stock market and DOGE leading to a recession?


I expected a discrepancy but this is a completely different report. Like 2 different worlds.
TRM
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So ADP was right?
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