It's "metric **** tonne"

5Amp said:

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Good news is we only make up about10% of world debt.





Global debt, encompassing public and private borrowing, reached a record high of over $324 trillion in the first quarter of 2025. This includes debt held by governments, businesses, and households worldwide. The debt-to-GDP ratio, which indicates a country's ability to service its debt, remains high despite some recent decline.

AI

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Nah, the really good news is that global balance sheet still shows a healthy debts to assets. Current asset value of Earth is around $3.27 quadrillion. We good.

Nitro Power said:

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infinity ag said:

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LOYAL AG said:

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infinity ag said:

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A. G. Pennypacker said:

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The Venmo/Paypal post got me thinking. Just for grins I was wondering what if every working age adult in the US kicked in a dollar a day towards paying down the national debt. Let's just say that's $200 million per day. It would take 500 years to sum to $37 trillion, and that's with no interest.

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Or just tax Elon Musk and make him homeless and we got 0.4 Trillion taken off

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You could liquidate all of America's billionaires and pay for next year's deficit plus a few months of the following year. It doesn't move the needle for the big picture. All the "tax the rich" nonsense from the left is phallic covetousness. It's impossible to tax them enough to make a meaningful difference.

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You are right, but still "Tax The Rich" (the insanely rich ones) is what I am still standing by.

They don't need any pity, Uncle Jim and Aunt Martha do.

I propose wealth tax for everyone who has NW of over $100 Million. Pay up.

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This has to be sarcasm

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infinity ag operates with a pretty simple principle.

They have great disdain for those above them on the org chart and those who have higher bank accounts. Those folks all abused the system and road on the backs of others to get there.

When you get that, their posting makes much more sense.

And yes, taxing the rich further is ineffective. Rich people will simply do things that will not result In paying those taxes. They will do those things until such time they are no longer breathing or until there is a policy that is satiable to them.

Detmersdislocatedshoulder said:

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it is mathematically impossible for us to pay it off it will not happen. the word is slowly coming around to that fact it seems.

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We have over 200 trillion in liquid assets sitting in the ground on government owned land that is collateral. Until we run up debt to match the balance sheet is still positive.

Chicken little doomsday debt-ers never, ever want to discuss the asset side of things. We can discuss revenues, expenses, surpluses, deficits and debts.

But assets are not to be discussed. Ever.

A 4% long term interest cost, divided by approximately 175 million tax payers (cannot count free loaders) means we are already expected to pay $10,571 per year each in perpetuity


And of course that assumes the number of tax payers isn't shrinking, and the running of additional deficits stopped now and forever

usmcbrooks said:

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37 trillion in layman's terms is a **** ton. It's greater than a **** load, **** ton, **** load, ass ton, ass load, butt ton and butt load.

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Had to hit the quote button first to fully appreciate that post. That is awesome.

Thanks for the belly laugh this morning.

infinity ag said:

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LOYAL AG said:

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infinity ag said:

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A. G. Pennypacker said:

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The Venmo/Paypal post got me thinking. Just for grins I was wondering what if every working age adult in the US kicked in a dollar a day towards paying down the national debt. Let's just say that's $200 million per day. It would take 500 years to sum to $37 trillion, and that's with no interest.

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Or just tax Elon Musk and make him homeless and we got 0.4 Trillion taken off

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You could liquidate all of America's billionaires and pay for next year's deficit plus a few months of the following year. It doesn't move the needle for the big picture. All the "tax the rich" nonsense from the left is phallic covetousness. It's impossible to tax them enough to make a meaningful difference.

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You are right, but still "Tax The Rich" (the insanely rich ones) is what I am still standing by.

They don't need any pity, Uncle Jim and Aunt Martha do.

I propose wealth tax for everyone who has NW of over $100 Million. Pay up.

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This is part of the sizable and strange overlap in the venn diagram of beliefs of some maga and Bernie bros. Happens when you don't have core beliefs and standards that apply to all Americans and instead follow a weird populist ideology.

sloppyjoe said:

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Detmersdislocatedshoulder said:

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it is mathematically impossible for us to pay it off it will not happen. the word is slowly coming around to that fact it seems.

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We have over 200 trillion in liquid assets sitting in the ground on government owned land that is collateral. Until we run up debt to match the balance sheet is still positive.

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Where does that $200T number come from? How does the government turn those assets into cash and how much would they yield?

Drill baby drill?

flown-the-coop said:

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Drill baby drill?

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That's what I assumed but wanted to hear it first. So is that oil worth $200T market value or $200T in royalties to the government for use of the land? Those are two distinctly different numbers. It looks like the government typically gets about 12.5% royalty so if $200T is the market value of the oil then the government is getting about $25T in royalties and that's not a pretty balance sheet. Conversely if the market value is $1.6Q then it's a great picture as you're suggesting. Just trying to clarify what we're actually talking about.

infinity ag said:

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We are broke-ass Americans. And fat and lazy too.

No wonder the world laughs at us.

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If Americans are broke, and lazy, and yet we're the #1 economy in the world, and best country to ever exist....what does that say about the slackasses in NotAmerica? They can laugh all they want, they aren't remotely on our level.

oldarmy76 said:

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infinity ag said:

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LOYAL AG said:

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infinity ag said:

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A. G. Pennypacker said:

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The Venmo/Paypal post got me thinking. Just for grins I was wondering what if every working age adult in the US kicked in a dollar a day towards paying down the national debt. Let's just say that's $200 million per day. It would take 500 years to sum to $37 trillion, and that's with no interest.

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Or just tax Elon Musk and make him homeless and we got 0.4 Trillion taken off

---

You could liquidate all of America's billionaires and pay for next year's deficit plus a few months of the following year. It doesn't move the needle for the big picture. All the "tax the rich" nonsense from the left is phallic covetousness. It's impossible to tax them enough to make a meaningful difference.

---

You are right, but still "Tax The Rich" (the insanely rich ones) is what I am still standing by.

They don't need any pity, Uncle Jim and Aunt Martha do.

I propose wealth tax for everyone who has NW of over $100 Million. Pay up.

---

This is part of the sizable and strange overlap in the venn diagram of beliefs of some maga and Bernie bros. Happens when you don't have core beliefs and standards that apply to all Americans and instead follow a weird populist ideology.

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Socialism is dumb, regardless of who spews the bull*****

LOYAL AG said:

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flown-the-coop said:

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Drill baby drill?

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That's what I assumed but wanted to hear it first. So is that oil worth $200T market value or $200T in royalties to the government for use of the land? Those are two distinctly different numbers. It looks like the government typically gets about 12.5% royalty so if $200T is the market value of the oil then the government is getting about $25T in royalties and that's not a pretty balance sheet. Conversely if the market value is $1.6Q then it's a great picture as you're suggesting. Just trying to clarify what we're actually talking about.

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I hope you took both my quadrillion comment and the drill baby drill referring to the other post as just wanting people to note we only look at the rev less exp nothing but deficit and ever growing credit card balance from just the liability side.

America do have assets. BTW, what's the intrinsic value of sophisticated nuclear weaponry, large well funded army, populace armed to the teeth, what do we value that at?

People act like if the debt is this or that we are doomed. That's not the case and never has been. But you better be able to back your swagger with heavy balls if you want to play the game to the end. See the Brits and laughably the French and add in some Soviets for history on the last 100 years.

Did national debt cause their demise or weakening? Or did other things happen?

Our immigration issues, socialist movements, underfunding our military, relying on foreign trade partners who may not share the "American dream"… all fantastically more important than debt.

LOYAL AG said:

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sloppyjoe said:

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Detmersdislocatedshoulder said:

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bit is mathematically impossible for us to pay it off it will not happen. the word is slowly coming around to that fact it seems.

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We have over 200 trillion in liquid assets sitting in the ground on government owned land that is collateral. Until we run up debt to match the balance sheet is still positive.

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Where does that $200T number come from? How does the government turn those assets into cash and how much would they yield?

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We have at least 30 billion barrels of oil, 100 trillion cubic feet of gas and 20 billion tons of coal reserves. Some projections are for more being there, but we haven't "proven" the reserves and technology isn't there yet to get to half of the oil in the formations. I didn't run the numbers all the way out but there is at least $200T in royalties for these minerals.

I don't want this to sound like I am for running up the national debt, as I am not. I think that we need to use tariffs to pay down the debt. I just don't think we need to hit the panic button here as we are not insolvent.

ChemAg15 said:

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I'm coming around to the idea that the debt doesnt matter. Money is all fake. Its made up by governments as a convenient way for us to assign and compare the value of things. Every country is in debt to each other so what matters is debt to GDP and how we compare to the rest of the world. It's not the same as household debt where if you cant pay your mortgage you get foreclosed on. It's more like if you can't pay the mortgage you just refinance and take out a larger loan. And you do this every year. And your neighbors all do the same thing.

Or maybe we're all fooked. I choose to believe global financial collapse is not inevitable because it helps me sleep at night. It's not like I can do anything about it anyway.

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We compare terribly. We are top 7-8 in the world for worst debt to GDP ratio.

sloppyjoe said:

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LOYAL AG said:

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sloppyjoe said:

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Detmersdislocatedshoulder said:

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bit is mathematically impossible for us to pay it off it will not happen. the word is slowly coming around to that fact it seems.

---

We have over 200 trillion in liquid assets sitting in the ground on government owned land that is collateral. Until we run up debt to match the balance sheet is still positive.

---

Where does that $200T number come from? How does the government turn those assets into cash and how much would they yield?

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We have at least 30 billion barrels of oil, 100 trillion cubic feet of gas and 20 billion tons of coal reserves. Some projections are for more being there, but we haven't "proven" the reserves and technology isn't there yet to get to half of the oil in the formations. I didn't run the numbers all the way out but there is at least $200T in royalties for these minerals.

I don't want this to sound like I am for running up the national debt, as I am not. I think that we need to use tariffs to pay down the debt. I just don't think we need to hit the panic button here as we are not insolvent.

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Thank you. That's what I was looking for.

YouBet said:

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ChemAg15 said:

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I'm coming around to the idea that the debt doesnt matter. Money is all fake. Its made up by governments as a convenient way for us to assign and compare the value of things. Every country is in debt to each other so what matters is debt to GDP and how we compare to the rest of the world. It's not the same as household debt where if you cant pay your mortgage you get foreclosed on. It's more like if you can't pay the mortgage you just refinance and take out a larger loan. And you do this every year. And your neighbors all do the same thing.

Or maybe we're all fooked. I choose to believe global financial collapse is not inevitable because it helps me sleep at night. It's not like I can do anything about it anyway.

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We compare terribly. We are top 7-8 in the world for worst debt to GDP ratio.

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Whatever bank continues to loan us money is the one in real trouble.

YouBet said:

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ChemAg15 said:

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I'm coming around to the idea that the debt doesnt matter. Money is all fake. Its made up by governments as a convenient way for us to assign and compare the value of things. Every country is in debt to each other so what matters is debt to GDP and how we compare to the rest of the world. It's not the same as household debt where if you cant pay your mortgage you get foreclosed on. It's more like if you can't pay the mortgage you just refinance and take out a larger loan. And you do this every year. And your neighbors all do the same thing.

Or maybe we're all fooked. I choose to believe global financial collapse is not inevitable because it helps me sleep at night. It's not like I can do anything about it anyway.

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We compare terribly. We are top 7-8 in the world for worst debt to GDP ratio.

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flown-the-coop said:

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YouBet said:

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ChemAg15 said:

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I'm coming around to the idea that the debt doesnt matter. Money is all fake. Its made up by governments as a convenient way for us to assign and compare the value of things. Every country is in debt to each other so what matters is debt to GDP and how we compare to the rest of the world. It's not the same as household debt where if you cant pay your mortgage you get foreclosed on. It's more like if you can't pay the mortgage you just refinance and take out a larger loan. And you do this every year. And your neighbors all do the same thing.

Or maybe we're all fooked. I choose to believe global financial collapse is not inevitable because it helps me sleep at night. It's not like I can do anything about it anyway.

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We compare terribly. We are top 7-8 in the world for worst debt to GDP ratio.

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Whatever bank continues to loan us money is the one in real trouble.

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Banks aren't loaning us money. We're selling bonds. Our debt is being purchased by tons of entities, big and small. And they're willing to buy our debt because we keep paying back our old debts when they mature. Faith in the system is what's keeping things going. If people quit buying our debt because they doubt we will pay it back, we will be unable to pay it back. It's a weird global economy where everyone just keeps borrowing and promising to pay back. And they can pay back because they keep borrowing.

I dont think we have to pay back all the trillions we owe but as pointed out by another poster our debt to GDP ratio has been on the rise.

That was my point. We are simply creating and selling debt, mostly to ourselves, and then we pay interest on that debt set at a rate of our determination, and then we pretend there is some pending debt crisis coming our way.

The numbers are all "fungible" and to the point of the OP they are way beyond the comprehension of most humans.

ChemAg15 said:

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flown-the-coop said:

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YouBet said:

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ChemAg15 said:

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I'm coming around to the idea that the debt doesnt matter. Money is all fake. Its made up by governments as a convenient way for us to assign and compare the value of things. Every country is in debt to each other so what matters is debt to GDP and how we compare to the rest of the world. It's not the same as household debt where if you cant pay your mortgage you get foreclosed on. It's more like if you can't pay the mortgage you just refinance and take out a larger loan. And you do this every year. And your neighbors all do the same thing.

Or maybe we're all fooked. I choose to believe global financial collapse is not inevitable because it helps me sleep at night. It's not like I can do anything about it anyway.

---

We compare terribly. We are top 7-8 in the world for worst debt to GDP ratio.

---

Whatever bank continues to loan us money is the one in real trouble.

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Banks aren't loaning us money. We're selling bonds. Our debt is being purchased by tons of entities, big and small. And they're willing to buy our debt because we keep paying back our old debts when they mature. Faith in the system is what's keeping things going. If people quit buying our debt because they doubt we will pay it back, we will be unable to pay it back. It's a weird global economy where everyone just keeps borrowing and promising to pay back. And they can pay back because they keep borrowing.

I dont think we have to pay back all the trillions we owe but as pointed out by another poster our debt to GDP ratio has been on the rise.

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I may be wrong, but isn't the largest purchaser of these bonds the Federal Reserve itself?

American Hardwood said:

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I'm waiting for some Keynesians to come here and tell me this is all okay.

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Hell, I don't think Keynes could have imagined it would get this bad.

Detmersdislocatedshoulder said:

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it is mathematically impossible for us to pay it off it will not happen. the word is slowly coming around to that fact it seems.

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I think we all had that friend who needed a loan, and against better judgement - we gave him the loan (knowing that he'd never pay it back). Well, that's the same for the national debt. It's never getting paid. It's all Monopoly money. Best case, it just gets written off in a worldwide reset. Worst case, the debt is resolved via war.

The government and oligarchs that run America and the west don't even want to pay off the debt.

Debt is the engine that allows the creation of money from thin air which we now "need" to run pretty much everything.

It's all a big charade.

A. G. Pennypacker said:

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The Venmo/Paypal post got me thinking. Just for grins I was wondering what if every working age adult in the US kicked in a dollar a day towards paying down the national debt. Let's just say that's $200 million per day. It would take 500 years to sum to $37 trillion, and that's with no interest.

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At a 3% interest rate, the daily interest on $37 trillion is over $3 billion.

$3 billion in interest every single day. Every working age adult would have to pay $15 every day, 7 days a week, just to cover the interest.

sloppyjoe said:

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Detmersdislocatedshoulder said:

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it is mathematically impossible for us to pay it off it will not happen. the word is slowly coming around to that fact it seems.

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We have over 200 trillion in liquid assets sitting in the ground on government owned land that is collateral. Until we run up debt to match the balance sheet is still positive.

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How much was the value of Soviet assets over, on, or under the ground when it had a fatal economic collapse at the end of its life? What good did that do them?

American Hardwood said:

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sloppyjoe said:

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Detmersdislocatedshoulder said:

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it is mathematically impossible for us to pay it off it will not happen. the word is slowly coming around to that fact it seems.

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We have over 200 trillion in liquid assets sitting in the ground on government owned land that is collateral. Until we run up debt to match the balance sheet is still positive.

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How much was the value of Soviet assets over, on, or under the ground when it had a fatal economic collapse at the end of its life? What good did that do them?

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Most of the former leaders and their friends are now what most people refer to as oligarchs, so i would say it worked out.

We also paid them handsomely for those old soviet assets to get us back and forth to the ISS for better part of 20 years as well.

And the only reason Russia remains a sovereign is because of their natural resources. Some would point to the nuclear arsenal but that arsenal is not serviceable without Russia still making money from its O&G (and perhaps more importantly because they do not depend on anyone else for these resources).

flown-the-coop said:

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American Hardwood said:

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sloppyjoe said:

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Detmersdislocatedshoulder said:

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it is mathematically impossible for us to pay it off it will not happen. the word is slowly coming around to that fact it seems.

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We have over 200 trillion in liquid assets sitting in the ground on government owned land that is collateral. Until we run up debt to match the balance sheet is still positive.

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How much was the value of Soviet assets over, on, or under the ground when it had a fatal economic collapse at the end of its life? What good did that do them?

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Most of the former leaders and their friends are now what most people refer to as oligarchs, so i would say it worked out.

We also paid them handsomely for those old soviet assets to get us back and forth to the ISS for better part of 20 years as well.

And the only reason Russia remains a sovereign is because of their natural resources. Some would point to the nuclear arsenal but that arsenal is not serviceable without Russia still making money from its O&G (and perhaps more importantly because they do not depend on anyone else for these resources).

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Russia isn't the Soviet Union. Dey gon. What happened after isn't the point. All those assets didn't help save the USSR who, like the U.S. today, had a bit of a spending problem.

American Hardwood said:

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Russia isn't the Soviet Union. Dey gon. What happened after isn't the point. All those assets didn't help save the USSR who, like the U.S. today, had a bit of a spending problem.

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Russia was over 77% based on area (important concept in regards to natural resources).

And the whole premise of your comment was what happened after. The Soviet Union essentially bk-ed and rebranded as the Russian Federation, still the largest country by land area in the world, top in terms of population in Europe (9th in the world), and in control of substantially all of the most critical assets and resources.

Their demise was also not driven exclusively by debt as the topic of this thread is focused on.

All those assets did indeed save "Russia" and that is exactly the point.

American Hardwood said:

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sloppyjoe said:

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Detmersdislocatedshoulder said:

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it is mathematically impossible for us to pay it off it will not happen. the word is slowly coming around to that fact it seems.

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We have over 200 trillion in liquid assets sitting in the ground on government owned land that is collateral. Until we run up debt to match the balance sheet is still positive.

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How much was the value of Soviet assets over, on, or under the ground when it had a fatal economic collapse at the end of its life? What good did that do them?

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They failed because of communism and their failure to be able to incentivize production. Under a capitalistic system we are able exploit our wealth to our benefit.

Our issue has been over leveraging our revenue to "invest" in our country to fund the war on poverty, green new deal scams, and other failed government programs that only enrich the political class by borrowing from our posterity.

We have a tax and spend problem, not a wealth problem. Balance sheet is still positive. Cut spending, tariff countries that practice unfair trade or devalue their currency to raise revenue, cut taxes to increase growth and generate more wealth, remove lazy people from the welfare rolls that are sinking us, and pay down the debt.

Basically, the opposite of what Democrats have been doing....or in other words WINNING!