NTSB Hearing on the DCA midair collision

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Southlake
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9:39a, 7/31/25
Initial hearing saying that the Blackhawk's altimeter was a factor causing the helicopter to be 70 feet above required ceiling while the airliner was locked on the glidepath to land.

Latest video shows no attempt by the Blackhawk to alter course while latest cockpit recording confirms the airline pilots see the Blackhawk approximately 2 seconds before impact.

Final finding will be released next year.
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Picard
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9:46a, 7/31/25
AG
Did they say anything about the feminist female pilot not following instructions?

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HollywoodBQ
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In reply to Southlake • 10:06a, 7/31/25
AG
Let's say the chopper's altimeter was off by 70 feet.

How in the world are aircraft moving at 100+ mph are allowed to get close enough to where 70 feet is the difference between life and death.

In SoCal, it's beautiful at night to watch aircraft landing at LAX with five miles separation. But nobody is flying a helicopter within 70 feet of their glide path. I would think that the crowded airspace over D.C. would be very tightly controlled.

In fact, as a car chase enthusiast, I've seen many Los Angeles car chases where they actually state that they can't get any closer to car chases near The 105 because of restrictions around LAX.
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samurai_science
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In reply to HollywoodBQ • 10:12a, 7/31/25
HollywoodBQ said:
Let's say the chopper's altimeter was off by 70 feet.

How in the world are aircraft moving at 100+ mph are allowed to get close enough to where 70 feet is the difference between life and death.

In SoCal, it's beautiful at night to watch aircraft landing at LAX with five miles separation. But nobody is flying a helicopter within 70 feet of their glide path. I would think that the crowded airspace over D.C. would be very tightly controlled.

In fact, as a car chase enthusiast, I've seen many Los Angeles car chases where they actually state that they can't get any closer to car chases near The 105 because of restrictions around LAX.

Dont question the female pilot
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revvie
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10:16a, 7/31/25
AG
Maybe 70 feet is 'good enough for government work' in most situations. I cannot imagine not having proper calibrated instruments being allowed in the DC area. I am sure that will be rectified in future, but it is something that should have been addressed before unnecessary deaths.
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Stat Monitor Repairman
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10:21a, 7/31/25
The reality is that the pilot didn't like the instructor's 'tone' and delayed executing an order.

"Oh-kay"

"Fine"

... was literally the last thing said 1-second before the collision.
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GAC06
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In reply to HollywoodBQ • 10:48a, 7/31/25
AG
The altimeter contributed but they were supposed to pass behind the jet, visually avoiding it. They said they had it in sight but it's pretty clear they didn't.
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Tom Fox
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In reply to Stat Monitor Repairman • 10:51a, 7/31/25
Stat Monitor Repairman said:
The reality is that the pilot didn't like the instructor's 'tone' and delayed executing an order.

"Oh-kay"

"Fine"

... was literally the last thing said 1-second before the collision.

Is this sarcasm or what this dumb broad actually said?
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Stat Monitor Repairman
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In reply to Tom Fox • 10:54a, 7/31/25
That's really what happened.

https://www.cnn.com/2025/07/30/us/ntsb-hearing-dc-crash
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MouthBQ98
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10:55a, 7/31/25
AG
I think they were looking at one plane and that clearly past them and not at the one that the controller was talking about that was still coming from their left. Wrong plane.

That's a super busy air space. No reason to needlessly clutter it up with training flights or flights that could go through other nearby airports.
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carl spacklers hat
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In reply to Stat Monitor Repairman • 10:57a, 7/31/25
Stat Monitor Repairman said:
The reality is that the pilot didn't like the instructor's 'tone' and delayed executing an order.

"Oh-kay"

"Fine"

... was literally the last thing said 1-second before the collision.


Whenever a woman say "fine", one should know that whatever this is in response to is anything but fine. I want to hear the exchange so I can infer attitude of the respondent.
People think I'm an idiot or something, because all I do is cut lawns for a living.
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Ellis Wyatt
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In reply to revvie • 10:58a, 7/31/25
revvie said:
Maybe 70 feet is 'good enough for government work' in most situations. I cannot imagine not having proper calibrated instruments being allowed in the DC area. I am sure that will be rectified in future, but it is something that should have been addressed before unnecessary deaths.

DEI was the Biden DOD's priority. They weren't worried about equipment.
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ABATTBQ87
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In reply to Stat Monitor Repairman • 10:59a, 7/31/25
AG
Stat Monitor Repairman said:
The reality is that the pilot didn't like the instructor's 'tone' and delayed executing an order.

"Oh-kay"

"Fine"

... was literally the last thing said 1-second before the collision.

Inside the helicopter, the instructor tells the pilot to change course.

"Alright, kinda come left for me, ma'am, I think that's why he's asking… We're kinda… out towards the middle."

"Oh-kay," the helicopter pilot responds. "Fine."

Not even a second later, the recordings capture the sound of the collision and impact as the aircraft falls into the frigid river below.
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fc2112
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11:00a, 7/31/25
I was disappointed to see the instructor was using the honorifics like "ma'am" when instructing her. i know it's military protocol, but when being taught, I'd prefer she be treated like the student she was. Him using the honorifics implies a subordination that should not exist in that environment.
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AgGrad99
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In reply to Stat Monitor Repairman • 11:01a, 7/31/25
AG
Stat Monitor Repairman said:
The reality is that the pilot didn't like the instructor's 'tone' and delayed executing an order.

"Oh-kay"

"Fine"

... was literally the last thing said 1-second before the collision.

I thought you were joking...
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Stat Monitor Repairman
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11:03a, 7/31/25
Imagine a scenario where you are a military pilot, helmsman, driver, operator, (or whatever).

You are on a check-ride.

Your instructor gives you a maneuvering order.

And your response is "Oh-kay .... "fine."

Under what circumstances would you not be pulled out of training and picking up cigarette butts by the end of the day?
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Tom Fox
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In reply to Stat Monitor Repairman • 11:03a, 7/31/25
Stat Monitor Repairman said:
That's really what happened.

https://www.cnn.com/2025/07/30/us/ntsb-hearing-dc-crash

We need to end the great women can do everything a man can do experiment.
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HollywoodBQ
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In reply to Stat Monitor Repairman • 2:12p, 7/31/25
AG
Stat Monitor Repairman said:
That's really what happened.

https://www.cnn.com/2025/07/30/us/ntsb-hearing-dc-crash

Quote:
"We have to understand there are physical limitations to that, which is offhand plus or minus 100 feet," Scott Rosengren, speaking on behalf of the Army, responded. "Knowing that there's plus or minus 100 feet, any qualified Army pilot or any civil pilot will (think) the fact that we have less than 500-foot separation is a concern."

How about - anybody with half a brain, they don't have to be a qualified pilot to figure that one out.
Quote:
The helicopter route has since been closed, but NTSB Chair Jennifer Homendy said she doesn't believe "anyone did the math until the NTSB did the math" to determine how close planes and helicopters were getting until after the crash.

"My concern is, where else in the national airspace does that exist where there are charted helicopter routes?" she said.

The NTSB later questioned the FAA about why there were not warnings on aviation maps about the high helicopter traffic near Reagan National Airport.

"How does LAX already have (a warning about) intense helicopter operations, and it's been there for some period, and DCA which is being described by everyone here as one of the most complex helicopter systems in the United States did not have one before this accident?" Inman asked.

"They didn't ask for it," said Katie Murphy, safety culture program manager at the FAA. "They asked for 'hotspots.'"

Oh my... pass the buck

For whatever it's worth when I lived in LA, there was a helicopter route right over my house. It was entertaining at times, annoying at others and there were a few times where I saw blacked out military helicopters overhead with no lights whatsoever - that was interesting, especially around the time of "peaceful" Floyd protests.
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Silent For Too Long
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In reply to Stat Monitor Repairman • 2:37p, 7/31/25
Stat Monitor Repairman said:
Imagine a scenario where you are a military pilot, helmsman, driver, operator, (or whatever).

You are on a check-ride.

Your instructor gives you a maneuvering order.

And your response is "Oh-kay .... "fine."

Under what circumstances would you not be pulled out of training and picking up cigarette butts by the end of the day?


Yeah there is something about this that disturbs that **** out of me.

A bunch of simps on here jump all over my case when I acknowledged Trump's concerns that DEI was a contributing factor.

It looks more and more like that is the case.
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Ellis Wyatt
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In reply to Silent For Too Long • 7:51p, 7/31/25
I felt pretty certain of it almost right off the bat because they obviously delayed telling us who the female was. They were trying to figure out how to soft-pedal the info.

She had no business being at the controls in that airspace. She killed a lot of people.
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Stat Monitor Repairman
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8:06p, 7/31/25
Quote:
"Alright, kinda come left for me, ma'am, I think that's why he's asking… We're kinda… out towards the middle."

The time it took to say all this was the last-clear-chance to avoid a mid-air collision.

Instead of "come left to X."

The guy soft-pedals the order. Respond one second sooner and probably would've missed.

Same deal with that ship that hits the Baltimore bridge. Power goes out one second sooner or later, and the rudder stuck one degree off and you probably wouldn't have seen a direct hit on the bridge support.

It was a one in a million shot doc.
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Jetpilot86
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In reply to revvie • 8:10p, 7/31/25
AG
revvie said:
Maybe 70 feet is 'good enough for government work' in most situations. I cannot imagine not having proper calibrated instruments being allowed in the DC area. I am sure that will be rectified in future, but it is something that should have been addressed before unnecessary deaths.

70 feet is properly calibrated.

If during preflight, the 3 altimeters in the jet are within 75' of each other and the airport elevation when the local altimeter is set, you are good to go.

The altimeters, among other instruments, have to be calibrated every 2 years.

However, that margin of error, and even larger ones that are within limits at cruise altitude, are what drives separation requirements. Not really enough room for the margin of error at that low altitude.

My gut feeling is that everyone in the chopper saw the plane on final for the other runway until it was too late. The RJ assumed the chopper had them in sight and the plane TCAS was below the altitude where a Resolution Advisory (RA) would have sounded. Only a caution about the nearby traffic.

We use a swiss cheese threat model and all the holes lined up on that night unfortunately. It will be interesting to see what separation procedures, likely eroded over time prior to the accident, are changed to minimize the chance of a repeat.
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tk for tu juan
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1:58a, 8/1/25
Video of 10 hour hearing:

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ts5641
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In reply to samurai_science • 6:18a, 8/1/25
samurai_science said:
HollywoodBQ said:
Let's say the chopper's altimeter was off by 70 feet.

How in the world are aircraft moving at 100+ mph are allowed to get close enough to where 70 feet is the difference between life and death.

In SoCal, it's beautiful at night to watch aircraft landing at LAX with five miles separation. But nobody is flying a helicopter within 70 feet of their glide path. I would think that the crowded airspace over D.C. would be very tightly controlled.

In fact, as a car chase enthusiast, I've seen many Los Angeles car chases where they actually state that they can't get any closer to car chases near The 105 because of restrictions around LAX.

Dont question the female pilot

Very misogynistic.
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ts5641
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In reply to revvie • 6:19a, 8/1/25
revvie said:
Maybe 70 feet is 'good enough for government work' in most situations. I cannot imagine not having proper calibrated instruments being allowed in the DC area. I am sure that will be rectified in future, but it is something that should have been addressed before unnecessary deaths.

The public deserves to know the truth with regard to this. There should not be anywhere near that fine of a margin for error or the rules need to change.
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BBRex
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In reply to Stat Monitor Repairman • 6:47a, 8/1/25
AG
Stat Monitor Repairman said:
Quote:
"Alright, kinda come left for me, ma'am, I think that's why he's asking… We're kinda… out towards the middle."

The time it took to say all this was the last-clear-chance to avoid a mid-air collision.

Instead of "come left to X."

The guy soft-pedals the order. Respond one second sooner and probably would've missed.

Same deal with that ship that hits the Baltimore bridge. Power goes out one second sooner or later, and the rudder stuck one degree off and you probably wouldn't have seen a direct hit on the bridge support.

It was a one in a million shot doc.


Assuming she was in the pilot's usual position on the left, she should have been the one to see the plane coming. Turning to the left when he said that might still have been too late, because that towards the plane's path.
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Jetpilot86
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In reply to ts5641 • 6:52a, 8/1/25
AG
ts5641 said:
revvie said:
Maybe 70 feet is 'good enough for government work' in most situations. I cannot imagine not having proper calibrated instruments being allowed in the DC area. I am sure that will be rectified in future, but it is something that should have been addressed before unnecessary deaths.

The public deserves to know the truth with regard to this. There should not be anywhere near that fine of a margin for error or the rules need to change.


Speculating here, but I suspect local ATC rules were created to accommodate the flow of traffic around DCA that were looser than standard separation and dependent upon the choppers being able to avoid the planes. The question is whether/what will change to keep a repeat from occurring.

I firmly believe the chopper "saw" the wrong plane because of the night conditions and the NVG's. Haven't watched the hearing yet, but picking out plane lights against the backdrop of city lights can be a challenge under normal conditions. The RJ believed the Controller had aircraft separation under control, the Controller believed the chopper had the RJ, the Chopper was looking at the wrong plane. The rest is just a distraction.

The question is why the chopper had the wrong plane called in sight. NVG's? city lights? Overloaded pilots? It hit the RJ because they didn't see it, question for me is why?
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G Martin 87
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In reply to tk for tu juan • 7:19a, 8/1/25
AG
Why did this hearing take 10 hours? Why isn't the final report going to be out until "next year"? There doesn't seem to be a lot of mystery left to this.
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bobbranco
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In reply to Jetpilot86 • 8:06a, 8/1/25
AG
The Army pilot failed miserably causing a tragedy that was avoidable.

ETA. The Army pilot was well outside of the Route 4 corridor.
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DannyDuberstein
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8:18a, 8/1/25
AG
"We're kind of… out towards the middle." = hey dumbass, he asked you to wait and use visual to avoid but you've taken us right into the flight path. Seems like he was keeping a professional tone but possibly ****ting bricks at this point. I don't think he saw the plane or the bricks would have been bigger, but I think he knew they were in a bad spot
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JFABNRGR
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In reply to DannyDuberstein • 11:36a, 8/1/25
AG
DannyDuberstein said:
"We're kind of… out towards the middle." = hey dumbass, he asked you to wait and use visual to avoid but you've taken us right into the flight path. Seems like he was keeping a professional tone but possibly ****ting bricks at this point. I don't think he saw the plane or the bricks would have been bigger, but I think he knew they were in a bad spot

Yeah if he thought there was a real issue wouldn't he have taken control of the aircraft?
“You can resolve to live your life with integrity. Let your credo be this: Let the lie come into the world, let it even triumph. But not through me.”
- Alexander Solzhenitsyn
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Tom Fox
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In reply to JFABNRGR • 11:43a, 8/1/25
JFABNRGR said:
DannyDuberstein said:
"We're kind of… out towards the middle." = hey dumbass, he asked you to wait and use visual to avoid but you've taken us right into the flight path. Seems like he was keeping a professional tone but possibly ****ting bricks at this point. I don't think he saw the plane or the bricks would have been bigger, but I think he knew they were in a bad spot

Yeah if he thought there was a real issue wouldn't he have taken control of the aircraft?


If he saw the other aircraft? Absolutely. But he knew she was not where she was supposed to be and was raising the ire of ATC. Hence his nice corrective language to not offend the female O3. Then her typical female response and then boom.
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agracer
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10:51p, 8/3/25
AG
The audio recordings show the Helo altimeter was working fine.


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A_Gang_Ag_06
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In reply to Stat Monitor Repairman • 11:10p, 8/3/25
AG
Stat Monitor Repairman said:
Imagine a scenario where you are a military pilot, helmsman, driver, operator, (or whatever).

You are on a check-ride.

Your instructor gives you a maneuvering order.

And your response is "Oh-kay .... "fine."

Under what circumstances would you not be pulled out of training and picking up cigarette butts by the end of the day?


It took me quite a while after returning to civilian life not to repeat back what I was being told to do by my boss and ending the statement with "aye." You do this in everything from repeating back course changes, to damage control drills, to taking the coffee order of a superior. It's how you ensure things aren't missed. In what world is "okay" and "fine" acceptable?!?!
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inconvenient truth
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12:09a, 8/4/25
Not to mix up pilot **** ups but whatever became of that female pilot who landed her plane tits up in Canada?
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