BQ78 said:

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Are you serious, Jack? Canadians who hate Trump are normally half of Vegas visitors. Sure.

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You know what's funny is that most of the time I've run into friendly groups of White girls in Vegas who want to party, they've been Canadian.

They're usually from Saskatchewan or B.C.

What surprised me is the number of Canadians I've met in Vegas who, the only place they've been to in The States is Las Vegas.

And when I lived in Australia, I knew a number of Aussies whose only destination in the USA was Las Vegas. I can't imagine why you'd travel in from abroad for your first time to the US and only go to Las Vegas but, it happens.

Back in the 80's and 90's Vegas had a truly captivating "feel" to it. There was a very distinct vibe as well as a sense of authenticity. It's a souless shell of it's former self tho now, but with fancier toys. Capitalism is obviously far superior to socialism, but unchecked, it does lead to some pretty watered down and mediocre things...probably even moreso when foreign $$$ is involved. Wish our leaders, elites, innovators and investors truly valued things like beauty and cultural authenticity. Modern architecture in general is pretty depressing and ho-hum.

I feel like there used to be some type of "vision" when we would build and design most things...now it seems to ONLY be bottom line/ROI.

Tearing down the Mirage was the straw that broke it for me.

Krombopulos Michael said:

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Probably three things at play IMO.....

1) Private equity/corporate greed ruining the experience (finance/accounting execs not hospitality execs)

2) the average American consumer is tapped out

3) Younger generations tastes are completely different than older generations.

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1 - Yes
2 - Yes but there's always more credit cards - but Vegas did get spoiled during Covid when lots of folks were spending their stimulus checks there
3 - Yeah, when I took my Gen Z daughter there (been about 9 years ago now), all she cared about was the fact that she found a bunch of Pokemon Go fight gyms at different places.

These days, none of her friends are interested in Vegas. If they're doing a bachlorette party, or a destination wedding, it's Nashville.

HollywoodBQ said:

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Krombopulos Michael said:

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Probably three things at play IMO.....

1) Private equity/corporate greed ruining the experience (finance/accounting execs not hospitality execs)

2) the average American consumer is tapped out

3) Younger generations tastes are completely different than older generations.

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1 - Yes
2 - Yes but there's always more credit cards - but Vegas did get spoiled during Covid when lots of folks were spending their stimulus checks there
3 - Yeah, when I took my Gen Z daughter there (been about 9 years ago now), all she cared about was the fact that she found a bunch of Pokemon Go fight gyms at different places.

These days, none of her friends are interested in Vegas. If they're doing a bachlorette party, or a destination wedding, it's Nashville.

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So many kids can barely afford to leave their parents house. Home ownership is a pipe dream, You used to be able to do Vegas pretty damn cheap. Not anymore. I would expect Vegas to keep feeling pain for the forseeable future. Too bad, so sad.

I think tourism all across the board is going in a downward trajectory.

1) The Biden bucks dried up
2) people have to work now, in office
3) the rent, student loans, car payment are all due now.

Nothing left in the tank after that.

Quote:

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And the whole town stinks of weed now.

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I was in Vegas in December for the NFR. One of our group had to go to the bank for something and they found that there was a branch office about 4-5 blocks off the strip where we were. As a woman she did not want to go alone in a strange city so a couple of us went with her. We decided to walk since it was only a few blocks and we wanted a little exercise. Entire apartment complexes that we walked by actually reeked of weed. It was truly astounding how strong the oder was all the way out to the street. I can not imagine living in an apartment in Vegas.

infinity ag said:

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All good things have to come to an end.

Maybe Vegas time has passed. We went there in 2001 after my wife and I got married. It was pretty cool. Haven't been there since. My friends who visit lately are not impressed. Maybe we have all gotten older too.

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Vegas will always be a boom and bust town that reinvents itself. They jacked up prices into an unsustainable level and that's going to bit them but some places will adjust and thrive while others die. Lots of changes happening but you can't have that many hotel rooms and that many expensive restaurants and casinos without adjusting.

DannyDuberstein said:

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Incellagio is being built for the millenials and Y.

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I come to this thread to read the carping and *****ing, but instead I'm gifted with a new word.

Polite golf clap fine sir (if I may be so bold to assume your gender).

Urban Ag said:

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flown-the-coop said:

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Sid Farkas said:

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Vegas has turned into one giant carnival cruise ship filled with Spirit airlines passengers.

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I think this thread is about that ship turning around, gnomsayin?

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Maybe but he's not wrong. Since Covid, Vegas has just gone disgusting. Fat chicks wearing next to nothing, homeless everywhere, frumpy skanks accosting you for a paid pic, the Spirit Airlines crowd.

And the whole town stinks of weed now. About the only place you can get away from it is in the nicer casinos.

I came to the conclusion a few years ago that Vegas is like much of the Caribbean. Fly in, get driven directly to the resort of your choosing, stay there until it's time to get driven back to the airport.

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Agree, but decline in attendance by the Spirit Airlines crown is welcome and may be happening according to the OP hence the cruise ship is sailing AWAY.

Its not Disney, so smelling cigs, cigars, beer, vomit and weed is part of the experience in my opinion. And if you don't want that, then do as you suggest (we often do similar and just uber to/fro different locations.

Vegas is overly lame if you don't experience some of the real sin of the place.

The story re aussies is baffling. Why go all the way to Vegas when Macao is much closer and way bigger?

Living in Houston, I can drive less than 3 hours to Lake Charles and have a great time. We may go Vegas every 3 or 4 years but we have seen just about all the shows we care to see and gambling is gambling whether in Vegas or Louisiana. Went to see the Eagles in January and had a great time. We stayed downtown because room prices were jacked due to the world of concrete convention that week. Rooms were over $300 on the strip the days we were there and they were under $40 the week before and after. I don't go to Vegas to party so I can find deals on breakfasts and drinks around town.

As others have mentioned, Vegas is morphing away from gambling into a concert/event/sports town. Back in Frank and Dino's day, the shows brought in the gamblers. Now, people go for the show. Or the sporting event.

The number of theaters that can host music residencies have changed the game for artists, too -- why tour when you can have the fans come to you? And the fans who pay $300 a ticket to see the Eagles at the Sphere (plus hotel and airfare), don't have a lot of cash left over to gamble.

Until recently, I was one of the few people left in America who had never been to Vegas. I was shocked at how empty the casinos were. I had the Hollywood/old school vision of how they would look -- filled with lots of people and action. They were mostly dead.

ThunderCougarFalconBird said:

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Another issue that no one mentions is Macao. Asian whales that would go to Vegas to play high-stakes are basically non existent now. Why bother crossing the pacific when a bigger and better gambling Mecca is in your own back yard.

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When I visited in 2001, lots of Asian men sitting in the casinos gambling away.

All that is gone now?

ThunderCougarFalconBird said:

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The story re aussies is baffling. Why go all the way to Vegas when Macao is much closer and way bigger?

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I think a lot of times it's combined with a Business Class flight splurge purchase on Qantas for a milestone birthday like a 40th or 50th.

Or, their Vegas trip is for a work conference (that's what many of my Vegas trips have been, probably did about 7-8 of these when I was living in Sydney).

Plus, Macau is all Chinese.

I've only been to Macau once. It was in 2019 for a business meeting in a dingy conference room with a Casino operator so I don't know what their casino playing experience is really like. I have played at Resorts World Sentosa in Singapore and the Asian experience is just a lot different that what you're going to get in Vegas.

El Gallo Blanco said:

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HollywoodBQ said:

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Krombopulos Michael said:

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Probably three things at play IMO.....

1) Private equity/corporate greed ruining the experience (finance/accounting execs not hospitality execs)

2) the average American consumer is tapped out

3) Younger generations tastes are completely different than older generations.

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1 - Yes
2 - Yes but there's always more credit cards - but Vegas did get spoiled during Covid when lots of folks were spending their stimulus checks there
3 - Yeah, when I took my Gen Z daughter there (been about 9 years ago now), all she cared about was the fact that she found a bunch of Pokemon Go fight gyms at different places.

These days, none of her friends are interested in Vegas. If they're doing a bachlorette party, or a destination wedding, it's Nashville.

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So many kids can barely afford to leave their parents house. Home ownership is a pipe dream, You used to be able to do Vegas pretty damn cheap. Not anymore. I would expect Vegas to keep feeling pain for the forseeable future. Too bad, so sad.

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Frankly, I think Millennials are the ones who are in the age zone for Vegas.
The 30-40 y/o folks with some money to blow.
Gen Z hasn't reached that income level yet.

And don't kid yourself about kids living with their parents, they have plenty of disposable income but, they're spending it on cars or trips to Europe or things like destination wedding travel.

If I need to gamble on-site, I'll go back down to my home region and Tunica, MS. Rooms are cheap, meals are cheap, golf is cheap, and you can sit in a sportsbook all day for nothing. They can't afford to run people off down there. I saw it go from a 3rd world country to a nice place in the early 90's, when casinos started popping up. It has declined since, but it checks all the boxes for those who like to get away and have some fun for a few days.

Last time I was there, 2019, I was told the casinos were dying and that it was the club life/mega dj's that was bringing in the visitors. All the dj-clubs were charging $150+ cover charges and outrageous drink prices, but they were full. Those beach clubs or pool clubs were standing room only.

infinity ag said:

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ThunderCougarFalconBird said:

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Another issue that no one mentions is Macao. Asian whales that would go to Vegas to play high-stakes are basically non existent now. Why bother crossing the pacific when a bigger and better gambling Mecca is in your own back yard.

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When I visited in 2001, lots of Asian men sitting in the casinos gambling away.

All that is gone now?

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when we went in July, the high roller/high limit areas were completely dead - at all times of day. So the usual sight of chinamen ripping cigarettes and playing baccarat at $10k/hand was completely gone.

Dan Scott said:

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Vegas is about premium experiences. Those willing to pay for it have the money and don't think twice. They are high margin customers. This has exploded since Covid I feel where there are different tiers and businesses figured out they can create a premium tier that as little incremental cost but charge a ton for.

It's like gas stations. The dude paying for premium doesn't care it's an incremental $0.50/gallon. He probably doesn't care if it's $1 so a smart gas station operator will maximize profits there if he can. As long as you're not too greedy, you can milk it for a long time.

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I'll notice an extra $1/gallon but, you're right, I don't care about 50 cents/gallon.

With hotel rooms, it's similar.

I see the difference between $100 / $200 / $300 and I'll pay it if there's something I want to do there at that time. But, if you want to charge $400+? I'm going somewhere else.

Lola68 said:

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Last time I was there, 2019, I was told the casinos were dying and that it was the club life/mega dj's that was bringing in the visitors. All the dj-clubs were charging $150+ cover charges and outrageous drink prices, but they were full. Those beach clubs or pool clubs were standing room only.

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Ah yes... Paris before the war (or in our case - pre-Covid).

Makes sense re Macao. I'm an old millennial that makes a good living. We go to Vegas every few years or so for an event. The only gambling I do is maybe a couple prop bets at a sports book (long odds stuff like Leicester to win the EPL type crap) and maybe $20 on a random slot machine. No real interest in gambling.

When I was there in July, I noticed that the bum population was thinned out and the dank weed smell had subdued. Perhaps the Spirit Airlines crowd finally got priced out of town.

My wife and I went with another couple 3-4 years ago. I'm cool with never going back. It wasn't even the prices that was the issue. That place is a dump. You can't walk anywhere without smelling weed. The casino floors were weird, the floors were empty and it was almost like people looked at you funny if you chose to gamble.

Last time i was in Vegas (ironically for a convention) it seemed 50% of the guests were from CHYNA. I'd love to see a demographic breakdown of the decline. Wondering if the rich Chinese are feeling the pinch.

Blackhorse83 said:

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rononeill said:

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Call me crazy, but I believe Vegas will be just fine. Maybe the strip will suffer for a moment, but the offstrip venues are thriving. In-migration/California Exodus, diversification of employment- LV, the city, is on a Phoenix trajectory.

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I live in the Phoenix metro. What is a Phoenix trajectory?

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High-growth diversified economy partly driven by Californians and California businesses fleeing California for border states. Vegas has become an actual business destination in its own right not just a tourism destination.

Dan Scott said:

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Vegas is about premium experiences. Those willing to pay for it have the money and don't think twice. They are high margin customers. This has exploded since Covid I feel where there are different tiers and businesses figured out they can create a premium tier that as little incremental cost but charge a ton for.

It's like gas stations. The dude paying for premium doesn't care it's an incremental $0.50/gallon. He probably doesn't care if it's $1 so a smart gas station operator will maximize profits there if he can. As long as you're not too greedy, you can milk it for a long time.

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This is the most accurate statement made on here. There are some of the best hotels, restaurants, clubs, and overall experiences on the planet at Vegas. But you pay for that.

Hullabaloonatic said:

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Tourism across the US as a whole is down. The World Travel & Tourism Council (WTTC), the global body representing the Travel & Tourism private sector, announced in May its latest Economic Impact Research which found that the U.S. is on track to lose $12.5B in international visitor spending this year.

I think it's interesting that OP didn't list Trump as any of the potential reasons for tourist decline amongst Las Vegas or anywhere in general. The significant decline in visitors from Canada is particularly costly, as Canadian tourists made up roughly one-quarter of all foreign travelers who came to the United States in 2024, according to the U.S. National Travel and Tourism Office (NTTO). Last year, Canadians spent $20.5 billion. In May, Canadian visitations dropped by 38% by car and 24% by air compared to the same month in 2024. It was the fifth consecutive month of steepening year-over-year declines, following double-digit drops in April and March.

I think it's fair to speculate whether Trump's antagonistic actions towards our neighbors to the North have directly impacted the willingness of Canadians to cross the border for leisure.

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doubledog said:

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There will always be a Las Vegas, because there will always be sin. Sad but true.

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Don't have to go to Vegas to see that. We all have mirrors. And not everything in Vegas is sinful.

Let it die and we don't care about Canada

BkYdPitmaster said:

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doubledog said:

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There will always be a Las Vegas, because there will always be sin. Sad but true.

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Don't have to go to Vegas to see that. We all have mirrors. And not everything in Vegas is sinful.

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I bought my mirror at a church garage sale. It's not sinful.

cupcakesprinkles said:

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If the mob still ran Vegas it wouldn't have turned into a carnival cruise ship.

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BCO07 said:

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My wife and I went with another couple 3-4 years ago. I'm cool with never going back. It wasn't even the prices that was the issue. That place is a dump. You can't walk anywhere without smelling weed. The casino floors were weird, the floors were empty and it was almost like people looked at you funny if you chose to gamble.

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I went for the first time about 8 years ago. Stayed at the Flamingo. The pot thing wasn't happening at that time that I recall. I thought the prices were outrageous even at that time.

Before that trip, I used to go over to the boats in Bossier quite often and play craps. The Bossier experience was head and shoulders better from a pure gambling experience. In Vegas, you couldn't find a waitress for a drink. In Bossier, every 15 minutes they came by like clockwork. The dealers in Bossier were better too.

HollywoodBQ said:

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El Gallo Blanco said:

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HollywoodBQ said:

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Krombopulos Michael said:

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Probably three things at play IMO.....

1) Private equity/corporate greed ruining the experience (finance/accounting execs not hospitality execs)

2) the average American consumer is tapped out

3) Younger generations tastes are completely different than older generations.

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1 - Yes
2 - Yes but there's always more credit cards - but Vegas did get spoiled during Covid when lots of folks were spending their stimulus checks there
3 - Yeah, when I took my Gen Z daughter there (been about 9 years ago now), all she cared about was the fact that she found a bunch of Pokemon Go fight gyms at different places.

These days, none of her friends are interested in Vegas. If they're doing a bachlorette party, or a destination wedding, it's Nashville.

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So many kids can barely afford to leave their parents house. Home ownership is a pipe dream, You used to be able to do Vegas pretty damn cheap. Not anymore. I would expect Vegas to keep feeling pain for the forseeable future. Too bad, so sad.

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Frankly, I think Millennials are the ones who are in the age zone for Vegas.
The 30-40 y/o folks with some money to blow.
Gen Z hasn't reached that income level yet.

And don't kid yourself about kids living with their parents, they have plenty of disposable income but, they're spending it on cars or trips to Europe or things like destination wedding travel.

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MAYBE the childless ones.

Millennials who have kids are in the financial trenches right now. Some of the older ones are lucky and bought before prices and interest rates tag teamed to quadruple the cost of home ownership, but most missed that boat and are fighting to tread water.

And with the boomers becoming health constrained, this leaves GenX is in the slot - which would naturally be a slump even if technology weren't competing to keep folks in their homes.