The Lance hype lasted all of one week
******* Cowboys Official Season Thread 2024 *******
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Last: 1 yr ago by EastSideAg2002
Who was the person tryin to say Lance was ready
Best I can tell, one poster had the audacity to think he might be a better option than Rush, who also sucks, based mostly on the premise that we know what Rush is (sucky) and maybe Lance can get better because he's barely played football. And most disagree with him, including me. But I am failing to see the "hype".
This is why you don’t give up on Trey Lance. His ability to be a game changer is CLEARLY THERE. He made these defenders with angles look like they were running in place. 🤯 pic.twitter.com/mBY1xUEo7o
— Robert Griffin III (@RGIII) August 24, 2024
Can he play WR?
As I've said before, when you think about it, there are probably 20 "starting caliber" QBs in the NFL. All you want out of your backup is to be a guy who doesn't make mistakes, knows the offense, and can get the ball to playmakers. With certain starters, like Josh Allen, you can live with the cornucopia of turnovers because his upside is so great. With backups, you simply can't afford to turn the ball over.
In the 90s, you'd be happy with 2-1 TD-TO ratio from your starter. Nowadays, a competent starter will have at least a 2.5-1 ratio. Your backup needs a 1.5-1 ratio.
In the 90s, you'd be happy with 2-1 TD-TO ratio from your starter. Nowadays, a competent starter will have at least a 2.5-1 ratio. Your backup needs a 1.5-1 ratio.
I'm thinking Deuce did enough to make the team. Now, will the staff actually give him significant touches in games? Pfft, probably not. But don't worry, Zeke and Luepke got plenty of 1-3 yard bangers ready to go!
While true, I view the backup QB position in two scenarios: 1) When your starter tweaks an ankle, gets sick or something minor like that, and is going to miss a half, game, or two at max; 2) Then you have the disaster scenarios where your starter goes down for chunks of the season, if not all of it. I'd take Rush in scenario 1 because he's going to keep it on track, not lose games etc. I'd go with Lance for scenario 2, because he's got much more upside and stands the chance of continuing to improve.
sincereag said:
Lance is aweful
Trey Lance's career is what I wish upon Caleb Williams
From what I hear, the knock on Lance is he doesn't anticipate throws and has to wait until a receiver is CLEARLY open, so he resorts to a lot of check downs. Maybe yesterday the coaches told him to just let it rip and not care about throwing into coverage. Maybe the 5 int's isn't an actual concern for anyone.
I mean, fundamentally that's the issue with every QB that fails in the NFL. Everyone at this level has the tools, anyone without them has long since been weeded out. Sure some have more than others but there's a baseline set of physical attributes you have to have to make it this far. The difference between Jeff George and Dan Marino wasn't a massive gap in talent. The difference was one guy could anticipate where his receiver was going to be at a given moment and was able to put the ball in that spot at the exact moment it needed to be there, and the other couldn't do that consistently.
Now Lance has the additional problem of poor placement in general, not just poor timing. He can't even reliably put the ball in a spot if you give him a fixed target. Which probably makes him one of the worst QBs ever to last this long in the NFL. And this is likely due to him having a historically small sample size for an NFL QB draft pick, especially one that high. He threw like one half season worth of NFL passes in his entire college career.
Now Lance has the additional problem of poor placement in general, not just poor timing. He can't even reliably put the ball in a spot if you give him a fixed target. Which probably makes him one of the worst QBs ever to last this long in the NFL. And this is likely due to him having a historically small sample size for an NFL QB draft pick, especially one that high. He threw like one half season worth of NFL passes in his entire college career.
Infection_Ag11 said:
I mean, fundamentally that's the issue with every QB that fails in the NFL. Everyone at this level has the tools, anyone without them has long since been weeded out. Sure some have more than others but there's a baseline set of physical attributes you have to have to make it this far. The difference between Jeff George and Dan Marino wasn't a massive gap in talent. The difference was one guy could anticipate where his receiver was going to be at a given moment and was able to put the ball in that spot at the exact moment it needed to be there, and the other couldn't do that consistently.
Now Lance has the additional problem of poor placement in general, not just poor timing. He can't even reliably put the ball in a spot if you give him a fixed target. Which probably makes him one of the worst QBs ever to last this long in the NFL. And this is likely due to him having a historically small sample size for an NFL QB draft pick, especially one that high. He threw like one half season worth of NFL passes in his entire college career.
Oh, there have been PLENTY of worse QBs who have lasted longer. Heck, Nathan Peterman, maybe the worst NFL QB of the last 25 years, is going on his 7th season, has a career 39.4 rating, has played far more than Lance, and still has fewer career passing yards. Lance is in YR4, one of which was lost due to injury.
Good point.
You'd think Lance has been/should have been working on all that day and night since it became obvious he wasn't plug and play ready. The potential upside value for getting that figured out is immense for him personally.
If it hasn't clicked by now, it's hard to imagine it clicking in the next year.
Overall, I'd still say it was a worthy gamble by Jerry trading for him. But at this point, I think you wish him well and let him move along, unless some team is willing to send you a late round draft pick to not risk someone else grabbing Lance off waivers.
Cooper Rush can win a few games for you.
You'd think Lance has been/should have been working on all that day and night since it became obvious he wasn't plug and play ready. The potential upside value for getting that figured out is immense for him personally.
If it hasn't clicked by now, it's hard to imagine it clicking in the next year.
Overall, I'd still say it was a worthy gamble by Jerry trading for him. But at this point, I think you wish him well and let him move along, unless some team is willing to send you a late round draft pick to not risk someone else grabbing Lance off waivers.
Cooper Rush can win a few games for you.
By the time these guys are in the NFL, they have thrown tens of thousands of passes. They are either accurate or they aren't. He can make a wow throw but is not consistently accurate. That won't change. These guys throw how they throw.
As far as understanding how to read defenses and make the right decision, that requires (1) a smart hamster wheel running upstairs (I don't know how he is here) and (2) experience. He really short-changed himself on the latter, partly thanks to covid screwing up his path and how FCS pussed out. The guy needed to play a lot more football
As far as understanding how to read defenses and make the right decision, that requires (1) a smart hamster wheel running upstairs (I don't know how he is here) and (2) experience. He really short-changed himself on the latter, partly thanks to covid screwing up his path and how FCS pussed out. The guy needed to play a lot more football
DannyDuberstein said:
By the time these guys are in the NFL, they have thrown tens of thousands of passes. They are either accurate or they aren't. He can make a wow throw but is not consistently accurate. That won't change. These guys throw how they throw.
As far as understanding how to read defenses and make the right decision, that requires (1) a smart hamster wheel running upstairs (I don't know how he is here) and (2) experience. He really short-changed himself on the latter, partly thanks to covid screwing up his path and how FCS pussed out. The guy needed to play a lot more football
As Tony Romo used to say, "I don't care how much you weigh or how far you can throw a football. If you can't read a defense, none of it matters."
In today's world of college football Lance would've been a great candidate to go into the portal and get exposed to better competition and coaching, and cash a few NIL checks and take some time to develop. Who knows if that would've worked out though.
jr15aggie said:
I'm thinking Deuce did enough to make the team. Now, will the staff actually give him significant touches in games? Pfft, probably not. But don't worry, Zeke and Luepke got plenty of 1-3 yard bangers ready to go!
Zeke was never going to be brought back just to be cut. Will be one of the reasons for this teams inevitable downfall
rsf0626
Deuce was pretty abysmal in his limited time last year. He's useless in protection and his moves didn't really work against first team defenders.
I hear you on pass pro. That said this offense needs some speed from RB when they are between the 20s. Let's see what he can do.
BassCowboy33 said:
Deuce was pretty abysmal in his limited time last year. He's useless in protection and his moves didn't really work against first team defenders.
You're judging him on very few opportunities in his rookie season. There's plenty of film showing he's obviously the most elusive and quickest back we have. I have a hard time believing his college production can't somewhat translate at this level. I hope the Cowboys give him a fair shot. From what I've seen, if used in the right way, he can be a big asset to the offense.
Wouldnt be surprised if the cowboys are monitoring some other teams roster cuts for RB
rsf0626
Agree big time
gigem1223 said:BassCowboy33 said:
Deuce was pretty abysmal in his limited time last year. He's useless in protection and his moves didn't really work against first team defenders.
You're judging him on very few opportunities in his rookie season. There's plenty of film showing he's obviously the most elusive and quickest back we have. I have a hard time believing his college production can't somewhat translate at this level. I hope the Cowboys give him a fair shot. From what I've seen, if used in the right way, he can be a big asset to the offense.
I'll add to it and say that Deuce's carries last year were mostly limited to end of game situations. It's hard to believe/remember after the GB game, but we kicked the dog crap out of several teams last year. Deuce got the "run it up the middle and kill some clock" duties.
So yeah... IMO he wasn't given any quality carries last year. And as far as pass pro is concerned, pretty much all rookies struggle with this. It's why even the most talented rookie runners still split time with a vet.
rsf0626 said:
Wouldnt be surprised if the cowboys are monitoring some other teams roster cuts for RB
I'm OK with that, but only if they are looking to replace Zeke, which we all know they won't.
I think Dowdle (when healthy) is a deceptively good back. I also think we have something really special in Deuce as a change of pace back. If we want to keep our eyes open to find an upgrade to Zeke or Luepke then I'm all for it.
I just think Deuce is too small for the NFL, and starting caliber defenders overmatch and overwhelm him with speed and strength.
It is my understanding Luepke has an important role on the team because he can play fullback, tailback, H-back, and every special teams unit. That is a valuable player. What bothers me about the RB room is Freeman, Zeke, Luepke, and Dowdle are all the same type of back. There needs to be someone with some burst.jr15aggie said:rsf0626 said:
Wouldnt be surprised if the cowboys are monitoring some other teams roster cuts for RB
I'm OK with that, but only if they are looking to replace Zeke, which we all know they won't.
I think Dowdle (when healthy) is a deceptively good back. I also think we have something really special in Deuce as a change of pace back. If we want to keep our eyes open to find an upgrade to Zeke or Luepke then I'm all for it.
I think Dowdle is going to surprise some people. Is he going to be a Pro-Bowler? Probably not, but I do think he is going to get around 60% of the carries this year and he will be productive.
Yea he will be productive but this offense will need someone to be more than that. Dowdle is not a speed guy and has injuries so he isnt going to wow anyone. He will get the tough yards but so can Zeke and Luepke. Who is going to be the back that can turn a short yardage play into a big gain ala Pollard?Tksymm7 said:
I think Dowdle is going to surprise some people. Is he going to be a Pro-Bowler? Probably not, but I do think he is going to get around 60% of the carries this year and he will be productive.
Yeah, Dowdle checks all of the boxes for me... he's got some burst, makes people miss in tight spaces, has some power. He's a really good back, but I don't think he's durable enough to take on a true #1 back load like Zeke did years ago.
I fully understand the comment above about Luepke and I'm fine with that. He can be a "do it all guy". NONE of the other TEs did anything to prove they belong. Will most likely see the same guys (Fergy, Schoon and Hendershot) on the team. Luepke can be the fill in 4th TE / 4TH RB / FB / Special Teams dude.
Sorta change of subject, but I heard Voch and Broaddus talking about how Buddy Johnson has also shown up as a "do it all" guy. He's shown he can flash and make plays as a LB and he goes all out on special teams as well. I'd love to see him make the team over someone like CJ Goodwin who brings nothing to the table as a position player!
I fully understand the comment above about Luepke and I'm fine with that. He can be a "do it all guy". NONE of the other TEs did anything to prove they belong. Will most likely see the same guys (Fergy, Schoon and Hendershot) on the team. Luepke can be the fill in 4th TE / 4TH RB / FB / Special Teams dude.
Sorta change of subject, but I heard Voch and Broaddus talking about how Buddy Johnson has also shown up as a "do it all" guy. He's shown he can flash and make plays as a LB and he goes all out on special teams as well. I'd love to see him make the team over someone like CJ Goodwin who brings nothing to the table as a position player!
jr15aggie said:gigem1223 said:BassCowboy33 said:
Deuce was pretty abysmal in his limited time last year. He's useless in protection and his moves didn't really work against first team defenders.
You're judging him on very few opportunities in his rookie season. There's plenty of film showing he's obviously the most elusive and quickest back we have. I have a hard time believing his college production can't somewhat translate at this level. I hope the Cowboys give him a fair shot. From what I've seen, if used in the right way, he can be a big asset to the offense.
I'll add to it and say that Deuce's carries last year were mostly limited to end of game situations. It's hard to believe/remember after the GB game, but we kicked the dog crap out of several teams last year. Deuce got the "run it up the middle and kill some clock" duties.
So yeah... IMO he wasn't given any quality carries last year. And as far as pass pro is concerned, pretty much all rookies struggle with this. It's why even the most talented rookie runners still split time with a vet.
It wasn't so much the struggling with pass protection duties, it's that he was getting trucked by defenders, acting as little more than an inconvenience to blitzing backers and corners. He's simply not heavy enough to stand up to that rush.
He's also a guy where if d-lineman and maybe even linebackers get ahold of him, he's literally stopping in his tracks and maybe even getting tossed backwards. Not saying that he can't be effective in packages or roles, but I think he's pretty dang limited.
Tksymm7 said:
He's also a guy where if d-lineman and maybe even linebackers get ahold of him, he's literally stopping in his tracks and maybe even getting tossed backwards. Not saying that he can't be effective in packages or roles, but I think he's pretty dang limited.
I'd honestly prefer him taking passes from the slot. He's a good receiver, and the shiftiness is better utilized there than between the tackles. He's not going to break one for 60, but I can see him giving backers and safeties fits in the 5-10 yard range.
CeeDee: 4 years/$136 million/$100 million guaranteed/$38 million signing bonus.
Good. That's the going rate.
That's the number we all figured it would be. Just behind Jefferson. I'm sure we'll never know, but would love to know which side blinked.
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