RGV AG said:

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Water in STX is a serious, serious issue. SA and Corpus have been mentioned, but a major elephant in the room is the RGV.

If one adds the population of the Mexican side and the US side there are 300K more people from Rio Grande City to Matamoros than there are in San Antonio, and both sides continue growing in a big way.

And then you have the Ag industry on both sides as well.

DeSal plants not right on an open ocean are a risky proposition. The reality is that deep STX is basically a mild desert that doesn't get the amount of rain it needs to support all the people and activities that go on in the area.

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Desal doesn't have to be next to a bay or ocean. Hell, El Paso has a desal plant.

The single biggest problem with the RGV is that it is the RGV and honestly very few companies want to go there to do any work because of the mafioso politics associated with doing anything along the Rio Grande. Been there, done that. Won't go back.

TacosaurusRex said:

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There are three absolute truths when it comes to Corpus.

1) The boys can play baseball
2) The girls are fertile
3) The City of Corpus can eff up a wet dream

As a private company, I would do anything and everything to leave the City of Corpus in the dark for as long as possible. I grew up on the Island and have fished Baffin my whole life, and I am absolutely worried about the impacts on the bay, but we do not have a choice. South Texas is out of water, and as much as we bag on Corpus for being a sheit hole, their industrial base is a main artery for this country, and many others.

The State of Texas should be doing everything possible to bring more nuclear power online with desal plants parked right next door.

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I think Corpus has done a fair amount in the last decade or so to do better in terms of how things operate. Far from perfect, no doubt, but they aren't nearly what they were either.

Desal is done all over the world, we are one of the only countries that doesn't do it regularly because we are dumb and because one of the first attempts at doing it on a large municipal scale was an abject disaster and, just like with nuclear, people think that is how it will always be and run away from it without knowing the entire story. If there were these huge environmental impacts that everybody here is twisting their panties in knots about, it would be readily known.

California has 12 desal plants along the coast line, and if there were any significant environmental issues associated with them - rest assured they would have shut them down hard and fast.

docb said:

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I just hope these major petrochemical plants realize there is no future in this area and start building their new facilities somewhere else with more reliable resources.

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This is just a not smart statement.

schmellba99 said:

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docb said:

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I just hope these major petrochemical plants realize there is no future in this area and start building their new facilities somewhere else with more reliable resources.

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This is just a not smart statement.

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He is hardcore NIMBY. Probably loves how "business friendly" the state is and how easy the regulators are to work with, but doesn't actually want any development to happen near him. Just put it somewhere else so he can enjoy all the benefits of it.

docb said:

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Reel Aggies said:

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That whole area would die off without that business.

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I didn't say without it. Just that it may be near maxed out given the resources available. Why not build somewhere else on the coast where fresh water is more abundant.

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Tell us where that mythical place on the coast with abundant freshwater is. There is no such place in Texas and nowhere else in the country gives you the connections to all of the other pipelines, crude supply, etc.

The area is not maxed out at all, just maxed on on traditional surface water supplies. We have plenty of brackish water that can be turned into fresh water, we just need to be responsible with how we dispose of the brine. There are a lot of people throwing around accusations against Seven Seas that have no idea what they are talking about, and that are conflating brine from seawater desal with brine from brackish water desal. They are not the same thing. Frankly, we have no idea what their discharge will look like until they get their wells drilled and the water quality/yield tested. Everybody is out there throwing a fit when they know absolutely zero about the real characteristics of what will be discharged and in what volume.

If you were really interested in protecting bays, you should be much more upset at Corpus Christi's plan to discharge brine from seawater desal directly into the channel.

Yeah go ahead and ignore the fact that all of that water is in use already. We already ran all the rice farmers out of business around Houston due at least partly to the 50-year water planning requirements. They singlehanded destroyed most of the central flyway's southern end by running off rice farmers and turning it into subdivisions instead. The water rights to all that water coming down the Brazos, San Jacinto, Trinity, etc are already spoken for and the air permitting requirements around Houston and the Golden Triangle are very difficult. The groundwater along the coast in SE Texas already has limits on it due to the subsidence previous withdrawals caused.

I know you just don't want any development in your backyard, but at least try to educate yourself on the realities of the situation instead of throwing out maps that are meaningless without the context of water availability.

docb said:

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schmellba99 said:

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docb said:

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I just hope these major petrochemical plants realize there is no future in this area and start building their new facilities somewhere else with more reliable resources.

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This is just a not smart statement.

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Trust me I wouldn't expect you to understand

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In addition to not smart thinking, you have arrogance to go with it.

I bet you are a hoot at parties.

You also have zero problem enjoying a lifestyle that is capable because of the products made at those petrochemical plants too.

docb said:

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Reel Aggies said:

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That whole area would die off without that business.

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I didn't say without it. Just that it may be near maxed out given the resources available. Why not build somewhere else on the coast where fresh water is more abundant. Obviously keep what is already there. I am quite sure there are a lot of crawfish farmers in SE Texas that would be willing to cash an oil company check.

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Tell me, oh wise sage one - where is this place you speak of?

*Make sure it has a deepwater port capable of handling supertankers

SGrem said:

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https://www.kristv.com/news/local-news/in-your-neighborhood/kleberg-county/kingsville/public-outcry-stops-desalination-waste-discharge-in-baffin-bay?fbclid=IwY2xjawMfVodleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHlnXAtRy1HyidbQmb6NcgviDXF_GrJFf4LT1UIImedM5lD_SWjBjRrWPgFPM_aem__DhiSKg2yaxhVHdaW22ZVA

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I saw that.

The problem for me is that I don't know whether or not the proposed discharge plan would really have been a bad thing and I'm not convinced the people against it did either. This ain't like the issues impacting the Everglades and the Florida coasts with the discharge from Okeechobe or the rock mine they're trying to put in over there. Those are clear problems and threats.

I totally get not trusting a corporate-backed study but this felt really knee-jerk to me.

Looking forward to all the "My damn water bill is too high!" posts in a couple of years when people start seeing the cost for deep well injection of the "brine" that is likely to be less saline than the water it would have been going into.

TarponChaser said:

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SGrem said:

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https://www.kristv.com/news/local-news/in-your-neighborhood/kleberg-county/kingsville/public-outcry-stops-desalination-waste-discharge-in-baffin-bay?fbclid=IwY2xjawMfVodleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHlnXAtRy1HyidbQmb6NcgviDXF_GrJFf4LT1UIImedM5lD_SWjBjRrWPgFPM_aem__DhiSKg2yaxhVHdaW22ZVA

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I saw that.

The problem for me is that I don't know whether or not the proposed discharge plan would really have been a bad thing and I'm not convinced the people against it did either. This ain't like the issues impacting the Everglades and the Florida coasts with the discharge from Okeechobe or the rock mine they're trying to put in over there. Those are clear problems and threats.

I totally get not trusting a corporate-backed study but this felt really knee-jerk to me.

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It wouldn't have been.

But no amount of logic would have changed the mind of those against it. Same folks will later complain about Mathis not having water and lament the fact that the area will stagnate with any type of positive growth.

schmellba99 said:

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TarponChaser said:

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SGrem said:

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https://www.kristv.com/news/local-news/in-your-neighborhood/kleberg-county/kingsville/public-outcry-stops-desalination-waste-discharge-in-baffin-bay?fbclid=IwY2xjawMfVodleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHlnXAtRy1HyidbQmb6NcgviDXF_GrJFf4LT1UIImedM5lD_SWjBjRrWPgFPM_aem__DhiSKg2yaxhVHdaW22ZVA

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I saw that.

The problem for me is that I don't know whether or not the proposed discharge plan would really have been a bad thing and I'm not convinced the people against it did either. This ain't like the issues impacting the Everglades and the Florida coasts with the discharge from Okeechobe or the rock mine they're trying to put in over there. Those are clear problems and threats.

I totally get not trusting a corporate-backed study but this felt really knee-jerk to me.

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It wouldn't have been.

But no amount of logic would have changed the mind of those against it. Same folks will later complain about Mathis not having water and lament the fact that the area will stagnate with any type of positive growth.

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Don't worry, they are still going to do the project, but will just deep well inject the brine, which will be more expensive. As water prices go up, people will start doing more rainwater/stormwater capture projects and recycling of wastewater treatment plant discharge for non-potable uses. As the discharge of wastewater and runoff of stormwater decreases, the salinity of Baffin Bay will increase even more and we will get a real time experiment in whether it is the hypersalinity or the lack of fishing/shrimping pressure that makes the Baffin Bay fishery so productive.

docb said:

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txags92 said:

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schmellba99 said:

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TarponChaser said:

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SGrem said:

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https://www.kristv.com/news/local-news/in-your-neighborhood/kleberg-county/kingsville/public-outcry-stops-desalination-waste-discharge-in-baffin-bay?fbclid=IwY2xjawMfVodleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHlnXAtRy1HyidbQmb6NcgviDXF_GrJFf4LT1UIImedM5lD_SWjBjRrWPgFPM_aem__DhiSKg2yaxhVHdaW22ZVA

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I saw that.

The problem for me is that I don't know whether or not the proposed discharge plan would really have been a bad thing and I'm not convinced the people against it did either. This ain't like the issues impacting the Everglades and the Florida coasts with the discharge from Okeechobe or the rock mine they're trying to put in over there. Those are clear problems and threats.

I totally get not trusting a corporate-backed study but this felt really knee-jerk to me.

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It wouldn't have been.

But no amount of logic would have changed the mind of those against it. Same folks will later complain about Mathis not having water and lament the fact that the area will stagnate with any type of positive growth.

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Don't worry, they are still going to do the project, but will just deep well inject the brine, which will be more expensive. As water prices go up, people will start doing more rainwater/stormwater capture projects and recycling of wastewater treatment plant discharge for non-potable uses. As the discharge of wastewater and runoff of stormwater decreases, the salinity of Baffin Bay will increase even more and we will get a real time experiment in whether it is the hypersalinity or the lack of fishing/shrimping pressure that makes the Baffin Bay fishery so productive.

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Well maybe sometimes things just don't need to be driven by money

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Remember that on your next water, electric, gas and grocery bills.

docb said:

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txags92 said:

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schmellba99 said:

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TarponChaser said:

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SGrem said:

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https://www.kristv.com/news/local-news/in-your-neighborhood/kleberg-county/kingsville/public-outcry-stops-desalination-waste-discharge-in-baffin-bay?fbclid=IwY2xjawMfVodleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHlnXAtRy1HyidbQmb6NcgviDXF_GrJFf4LT1UIImedM5lD_SWjBjRrWPgFPM_aem__DhiSKg2yaxhVHdaW22ZVA

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I saw that.

The problem for me is that I don't know whether or not the proposed discharge plan would really have been a bad thing and I'm not convinced the people against it did either. This ain't like the issues impacting the Everglades and the Florida coasts with the discharge from Okeechobe or the rock mine they're trying to put in over there. Those are clear problems and threats.

I totally get not trusting a corporate-backed study but this felt really knee-jerk to me.

---

It wouldn't have been.

But no amount of logic would have changed the mind of those against it. Same folks will later complain about Mathis not having water and lament the fact that the area will stagnate with any type of positive growth.

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Don't worry, they are still going to do the project, but will just deep well inject the brine, which will be more expensive. As water prices go up, people will start doing more rainwater/stormwater capture projects and recycling of wastewater treatment plant discharge for non-potable uses. As the discharge of wastewater and runoff of stormwater decreases, the salinity of Baffin Bay will increase even more and we will get a real time experiment in whether it is the hypersalinity or the lack of fishing/shrimping pressure that makes the Baffin Bay fishery so productive.

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Well maybe sometimes things just don't need to be driven by money

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That is a hopelessly idealistic take. Development is coming to the Corpus area. There are too many factors making it attractive to development to make the cost of water be the driving force behind stopping it. You can stick your head in the ground and pretend if you stamp your feet enough that it won't happen, but that will mostly just force it to happen in more costly and less effective ways. I get the nostalgia for wishing that it could just stay like it is and grow elsewhere instead, but that just leads to unplanned development that is almost always worse ecologically than development that is planned with all parties at the table. Guiding development in environmentally friendly and sustainable ways is WAY better than becoming an obstacle to any and all development because eventually the demand for the development builds enough momentum to plow over/through any obstacle.

There are lots of entities out there trying to secure water supplies, and in places like the hill country and the panhandle, they are already well beyond the "maximum available groundwater" to the point that they are harming spring flows and river flows coming the coast. As those places do more and more reuse of water, the flows going to the coast will weaken even more, putting bay ecosystems at risk. Brackish groundwater desal is one of the things that has the ability to actually add water to the creeks unlike almost every other water supply source, and if it is put into creeks where the discharge salinity matches or is lower than what is already there in the creek, it can be a net positive for the bay systems being fed.

Everything is driven by money in one way or another. When it comes to things like where public water supplies come from, people have very little choice on where to get it. So they will pay the going rate. When people do things like forcing people to deep well inject waste water instead of putting it into a creek where it will improve the quality of the creek, that causes those water prices to go up. When the prices go up enough, people will start looking for alternative ways to obtain and use water, and most of those changes will have a negative impact on inflows into Baffin Bay and other bay systems. So in the end, not only will you have deprived the bay of what would have likely been a beneficial inflow, you will also end up depriving it long term of some percentage of the inflows it gets right now. Short-sighted in my opinion, but if it makes you feel good, I guess keep on keeping on.