What is so unsafe about Northgate today vs. 10, 20, 50 years ago that needs so much attention?

That actually happens all the time.

All of this talk about needing more expensive restaurants and coffee shops is just dumb. Northgate exists and always has for college kids. College kids don't have a lot of money, and what they do have they spend on alcohol.

If you want a fancy place to hang out at and spend money we have a wonderful development called Century Square right down the road that is aimed at an older demographic.

The City needs to sell the surface lot. People will moan & complain but the future must come first, they'll get over it. Let's be real. There's enough parking in the parking garages. Northgate needs a serious overhaul ASAP. There are thousands of new students moving into Northgate. Times have changed and are changing. A seedy bar district is not the responsible & classy future for this location.

A large amount of students drive cars way nicer than most employees at the university when they aren't screaming down the sidewalks on $1200 EV scooters with a $900 iPhone on the handlebars and $400 headphones on.

People don't want to pay at Century Square to park in front of a business. I can't imagine they would want to pay for a garage.

The surface lot needs to become a multi-story underground parking garage with multi-use lawn space and a rideshare zone on top. Kinda like the "Discovery Green" area across from GRB in Houston. Very nice and efficient!

metroid_84 said:

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PS3D said:

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A lot of businesses have suffered over the years because they had to basically exclusively rely on daytime foot traffic, which really isn't as concentrated as some would like to believe. I remember wanting to visit Roni's Mac Bar and the only viable option was to park five blocks away. (It was not worth it).

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Er, A&M's Northside Garage is nearly across the street from Roni's Mac Bar and has hourly parking. Or is paying for parking in a garage not viable?

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I could've done that but I was already on that side of the road. Maroon Barchetta makes a good point--Century Square already deals with the inconvenience with the parking garage/paid parking situation, Northgate is a hard sell and getting rid of one of its main parking areas would make it a harder sell.

PS3D said:

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metroid_84 said:

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PS3D said:

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A lot of businesses have suffered over the years because they had to basically exclusively rely on daytime foot traffic, which really isn't as concentrated as some would like to believe. I remember wanting to visit Roni's Mac Bar and the only viable option was to park five blocks away. (It was not worth it).

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Er, A&M's Northside Garage is nearly across the street from Roni's Mac Bar and has hourly parking. Or is paying for parking in a garage not viable?

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I could've done that but I was already on that side of the road. Maroon Barchetta makes a good point--Century Square already deals with the inconvenience with the parking garage/paid parking situation, Northgate is a hard sell and getting rid of one of its main parking areas would make it a harder sell.

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BINGO! BINGO! BINGO!

This is precisely why we had to move Cafe Eccell when our parking was to be taken away and why we have such concern for the surface parking now….

phillytex24 said:

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The City needs to sell the surface lot. People will moan & complain but the future must come first, they'll get over it. Let's be real. There's enough parking in the parking garages. Northgate needs a serious overhaul ASAP. There are thousands of new students moving into Northgate. Times have changed and are changing. A seedy bar district is not the responsible & classy future for this location.

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It's not a seedy bar district. It's a college bar district that every other small town to mid size college town in America has.

The city doesn't "need" to sell the surface lot, why would they need to do that? If you hate Northgate so much, don't go there. It's a college district filled with college student housing and college bars. That's what it's for. How is another high rise right behind the chicken going to help?

1939 said:

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phillytex24 said:

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The City needs to sell the surface lot. People will moan & complain but the future must come first, they'll get over it. Let's be real. There's enough parking in the parking garages. Northgate needs a serious overhaul ASAP. There are thousands of new students moving into Northgate. Times have changed and are changing. A seedy bar district is not the responsible & classy future for this location.

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It's not a seedy bar district. It's a college bar district that every other small town mid size college town in America has.

The city doesn't "need" to sell the surface lot, why would they need to do that? If you hate Northgate so much, don't go there. It's a college district filled with college student housing and college bars. That's what it's for. How is another high rise right behind the chicken going to help?

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Another Bingo

It's pretty evident that the CoCS thinks they have to be "doing" something all the time with nearly everything they have….. and things they didn't have (Chimney Hill, Macys) …. They fancy themselves as developers of the city instead of as providers of services. They would be well served to just get back in their lane. But that's not gonna happen.

AggiePhil said:

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The surface lot needs to become a multi-story underground parking garage with multi-use lawn space and a rideshare zone on top. Kinda like the area across from JRB in Houston. Very nice and efficient.

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Fascinating idea. Doable? I'm not an engineer. But- fascinating idea.

Respectfully

Yancy '95

AggiePhil said:

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The surface lot needs to become a multi-story underground parking garage with multi-use lawn space and a rideshare zone on top. Kinda like the "Discovery Green" area across from GRB in Houston. Very nice and efficient!

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I've thought that this would be a great solution if the city insists on keeping ownership of the land. But, underground parking construction is VERY expensive. Perhaps worth evaluating the cost, but the rates to park there would be pretty high to make it paper.

Get Elon to tunnel all the parking underground. Hell, tunnel all the way to Gibbons Creek. You can start the tunnel at my doorstep.

An article I read today that seems as good of a fit here than anywhere. It is about the growth of A&M and BCS, including changes to Northgate.

https://thedispatch.com/article/texas-am-higher-education-enrollment-demographics/

Captn_Ag05 said:

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Mr. Yancy -

Do you know if A&M is still considering doing the mural event in Northgate as part of the 150th celebration?

There are several buildings in NG that would benefit from a mural contest like they were considering doing.

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As far as I know yes- and murals would be great! And affordable!

Respectfully

Yancy '95

TyHolden said:

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Pics?
When are you running for mayor? Did I imagine that? I'll get you at least a dozen votes.

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That's very nice of you. Should I decide to run it would be August 5th before I could announce- unless I wanted to trigger a special election that would cost the citizens in money (special election) and an additional trip to the voting booth- and I don't want to do that. So, when you start hearing announcements in two weeks and nothing from me, that's why.

I've convened an exploratory committee of 18 individuals, and most of them have responded to 2 separate surveys regarding their thoughts on the state of our city and their vision for the future. Next we'll meet and discuss that future and what they are looking for in a mayor. I hope to ascertain whether a majority of those folks see things as I do, and do a lot of introspection as to whether this is the right thing for me to pursue- both for our city and my family.

I hope that's fair.

Happy 4th of July Everyone! Be safe out there!

Respectfully

Yancy '95

TyHolden said:

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Ok - thank you! And Happy 4th to you and the rest of Aggieland as well! 250 years old!!!

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50 years ago I watched the US turn 200 at that time I never thought I would see it turn 250. Happy days for our country and for the world we have saved more than once!

1939 said:

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It's not a seedy bar district. It's a college bar district that every other small town mid size college town in America has.

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Not really. I wrote an enormous post that took probably close to two hours to write up and came to some conclusions that I don't think have really been seen in this thread.

If Mr. Yancy wants comparisons to Northgate, he should look at other university-adjacent neighborhoods that exist NOW rather than places that existed fifty years ago, so let's actually LOOK at areas next to other SEC schools.

A fairer comparison would be comparing Northgate to other areas near SEC schools. OK...going down the list and written as I came across them. University of Alabama in Tuscaloosa, Alabama. Tuscaloosa has the Strip, which runs about four blocks near campus with various new dense apartments behind it (similar to Northgate). Their University Boulevard isn't a major road like our University Drive is, parking is not at a premium (strip malls exist), and it does have a small Publix that opened in 2004 (link). Sure, it has a grocery store, but Publix tends to open smaller grocery stores, their M.O. is entirely different than H-E-B's. The closest example is perhaps Brookshire Bros. which opened a store on West Campus and is kind of ignored.

University of Florida in (Gainesville, Florida) also has a small district on the north side of campus. Their West University Boulevard is more of a major thoroughfare than Tuscaloosa's University Boulevard is, but still no University Drive. Their enrollment is more than half of A&M's but their bar district is a few blocks. Street parking is paid, but they have street parking on West University Boulevard as well, something Northgate used to have on University Drive before they got rid of it. There is a small public parking lot with monthly rates and some food trucks. You'd have to go a little further out if you wanted free parking.

University of Georgia in Athens, Georgia has its commercial district integrated with the downtown, but that's also the main commercial district for half the city (and seems to be more affluent as well). Businesses have parking in front of them (paid, but no one's being forced to walk blocks to a parking garage that is also paid for). No roads are closed off during normal operations (only one section was closed, presumably around COVID and never reopened, but not repaved as such, nor a vital connection). Stoplights are throughout this area and there seems to be healthy daytime foot traffic with normally drive-through establishments like Chick-fil-A, Bojangles', and yes, even Waffle House, having storefronts. Things would really have to change if you wanted Northgate to resemble anything close to this. It would mean you would basically have to concentrate ALL the commercial activity within a two-mile radius into that area, and it would have to be WAY more accessible than it is currently. There's a lot of restaurants, but a much smaller percentage is bars. If you look at the downtown and walk away thinking "why don't we have a storefront Waffle House in Northgate?" you're REALLY missing the point.

University of Kentucky in Lexington, Kentucky is about a third of the size of TAMU, and looking at a map I couldn't even see that they HAD a student district. There are some watering holes that seem to cater to a student clientele but the downtown doesn't seem to have too much in the way of restaurants or retail.

The area around LSU (Baton Rouge, Louisiana) isn't great and its student area is mostly in the East Chimes Street area, covering a few blocks. Most of the businesses have their own parking lots and contains a mixture of bars and student-oriented eateries. Parking is metered, but you're also parking in front of the university proper. Space doesn't seem to be an issue either, in 2010 a development was built with CVS and some strip mall tenants, and it was all free surface parking. I definitely get the feeling that the City of Baton Rouge didn't have as much "influence" in this area, and I wonder how Northgate could've been if the City didn't try to influence Northgate.

Ole Miss in University (Oxford), Mississippi, is somewhat isolated. If anything, the main student activity is closer to the downtown area, but again, it's the town's downtown. The courthouse and other offices provide daytime traffic to the restaurants and bars in the area, but it's no Athens.

Mississippi State University in Mississippi State (Starkville), Mississippi doesn't have a true district, it has two main roads stretching out from it, Mississippi Highway 12, which has various strip malls and fast food along the way with some bars, and their University Drive, which winds toward downtown and has a few scattered establishments.

Like Athens, University of Missouri (Columbia, MO) is adjacent to downtown, and like Athens has plenty of parking and access, has daytime activity (government buildings, other offices). Parking is generous, one hour free and many of the meters are free for the first hour as well. They encourage moving around rather than feeding the meter. In comparison, Northgate has the one lot that is only free for a few hours around lunchtime (and longer hours on Sunday), NEVER Saturday, and the parking garage isn't free either.

Norman Oklahoma's "Campus Corner" near the University of Oklahoma is a few blocks with paid parking ($1 per hour). It has a mixture of bars and restaurants.

University of South Carolina in Columbia, South Carolina has Five Points which is probably one of the better Northgate analogues. There's density, a lot of restaurants, a lot of bars, and so on. One of the main drags looks a lot like the way Main Street in Bryan is laid out. There's a strip mall to the north (a small one, looks to be decades old). It seems to serve the surrounding area well and has good traffic.

University of Tennessee in Knoxville has Fort Sanders. It is somewhat similar to Northgate in some ways but a lot more built up with hospitals as well. Eyeballing it, it looks to get decent foot traffic but a place you would want to avoid if you didn't need to be in the area. This is not where the bars are, likely because it is inaccessible.

The real Northgate analogue to Austin isn't 6th Street, it's the Drag. There are a few bars here but it differentiates itself from 6th Street, with the Drag being the daytime eating place and convenience retail (CVS, etc.) with 6th Street being where most of the bars and nightclubs are. The Drag is mostly dead after dark, it's free parking after 6pm, even in Austin!

Finally, Vanderbilt in Nashville isn't too far away from downtown Nashville, but it's really a smattering of bars and student restaurants.

In the process of all of this, what I found was that the area actually adjacent to the universities were student-oriented with only a few bars for students (relatively speaking) and mostly places to eat. With the exception of only a few areas like Knoxville, parking was not a problem.

This took a lot longer to assemble that I expected, but my conclusions were this:

- The more I saw what the others resembled had the more I felt that the City took a wrong turn years ago.
- The city's "entertainment district" and the city's "student neighborhood" were usually two entirely separate entities, they did not co-exist and weren't adjacent.
- If you wanted more daytime foot traffic in the Northgate area and higher-quality tenants, you would need to have another major employer in the area.
- In almost all cases, the other examples had more parking and more accessibility, to make up for the lack of daytime foot traffic.
- Trying to spin college-oriented bars as an "entertainment district" and charging top-tier pricing for it is...well, it's a unique idea, but not in the way you think it is.
- Attempting to push the "entertainment district" idea, including closing off streets and making accessibility difficult, is scaring off businesses.
- Student housing in the Northgate area may eventually push the bars off of Northgate anyway. That's the biggest risk...a lot of these big apartment buildings command top dollar, what would happen if they started putting pressure to have some sort of noise ordinance on Northgate?
- Would it be heartless to suggest that the surface lot at Church Avenue and Boyett should be sold off (without limitations, so no promises to maintain public space) to fast-track the demise of Northgate as we currently know it?

What do we think the view in 2036 will be…