on the "gift for houston" thread, people keep saying we need zoning laws.

why?

Well I, for one, am tired of seeing the jumble of store, house, house, store, store, gas station, strip mall built right on top of one another. If you want to see the difference zoning makes, go into the Woodlands sometimes. It flows nice and bumps up property values because it guarantees there aren't a bunch of half empty strip malls built right on top of you.

Out by me, there is no zoning, and there have been at least four strip malls built in the last two years that still either have one or no tenants. Zoning would require that you fill one of those up before you build it. That's just one tenet of it though. Basically the lack of zoning makes it a developers/real estate agents market rather than helping the homeowners.

how does zoning require you to have leases signed before building?

and the Woodlands is a master planned community. not all cities with zoning laws equal the woodlands.

Requiring builders to have tenants signed up may not equal "zoning," but you generally do not have one without the other. I don't recall going ANYWHERE else and seeing so many crappy little empty strip malls. It's Houston's total resistance to any kind of laws like this (led by real estate folks and developers) that makes Houston look like a jumbled pile of crap to outsiders.

there are empty strip mall in towns all across texas.

not newly built ones that have sat empty since they were built.

i still don't understand what that has to do with zoning.

Look at my other post. I'm not going to sit here and argue with you on this. If you can't see the difference between driving through Houston and driving through D/FW and other large cities that have zoning and other aesthetics related laws going then you are either: 1) not looking objectively; or 2) are somehow involved in the real estate industry.

[This message has been edited by BohunkAg (edited 12/31/2007 11:26a).]

im not involved in real estate

and your other post admits the empty strip mall has nothing to do with zoning.

there are plenty of ugly towns with zoning laws. I would like some concrete examples of a part of houston that would be improved if zoning existed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoning

answers many of these questions...

why would a real estate agent want empty strip centers? or a developer for that reason? the only people that would make any money on an empty strip mall are the GC's.

and how in the hell does a lack of zoning make houston a better real estate market?

in the first part of your argument, you said zoning increases property values. that's a good thing for us ya know.

Bohunk...no offense, but you do not know what you are talking about.

Zoning works because deed restrictions are doomed to failure. Deed restrictions only work if they are ALWAYS fully enforced. Zoning prevents people from opening an auto repair business in their garage (which then spills out onto the street and their front yard), it prevents them from opening a BBQ business in their backyard that creates a nasty odor 24/7 that can and does make its way into nearby homes.

In a nutshell, zoning laws give legal protection to the homeowners (both criminal and civil) and an affordable means by which to enforce those laws (i.e. calling the police or Neighborhood Protection). Simple deed restrictions overwhelmingly fail because enforcement is left up to local community and once that community loses its economic status, those restrictions always lapse. I've seen it happen in Spring Branch, Midtown and Uptown.

My thoughts as succinct as I could make them, but I can, and have, gone on for much longer.

for the record...i'm not against zoning.

unfortunately, it's a fact of life in houston and it's probably too late to change it. we tried to vote it in back in the 80's (or was it early 90's) and it failed. i just don't see how they would implement it now.

Lack of zoning is why Houston is such a small and unsuccessful city!

Zoning...

Houston is the Wild West of real estate development. If you can dream it, you can do it on YOUR land. These are principals near and dear to Texans. "It's my land and I will do with it what I damn well please."

Who do you trust to tell you what you can do with your land? The mayor? Some newly inaugurated councilman who was selling used cars last week?

When you decide to sell your piece of property, would you like the whole world bidding on that property or would you like a more limited pool of buyers? Zoning will inevitably limit the competition for your site to those entities for which it is specifically zoned.

I have architects from all over the country coming thru my office on a weekly basis and those that have never been to Houston all have the same comment. "I knew Houston as the town with no Zoning laws, but now that I'm here I'm shocked that it really looks like any other big city in the US..."

If you think Houston is much different than any other American city, you need to have a look around. The economics of real estate and development have more to do with how land is used than any attempt at legislate its use.

My two cents...

I don't know what the answer is, and yeah I'm not well versed in real estate, and yeah I'm using the word "zoning" to encompass a lot, which is erroneous. I'm just frustrated with the willy nilly pattern of building out where I am.

Texasduffer, are you taking your architect buddies into the downtown, midtown area where things are already built, or are you taking them out to the fringes of the city where things are just being built? Just curious....

Again, don't know what the answer is, and maybe I'm just railing against urban sprawl in general here, but it sure seems like more urban planning (again not just talking about zoning) could help Houston.

most of the "urban sprawl" that takes place is not within houston city limits....of course not saying that houston doesn't cause it, b/c it does. but strip malls etc. that are built b/c of urban sprawl are the city of katy, spring, clear lake, sugarland, etc's business.

i understand and sympathize for both sides of the arguement, but i think that not having zoning gives our city a unique character...be it unattractive and a pain in some areas. however with zoning we wouldn't have communities like the heights that so fluidly incorporate privately owned businesses within walking distance to people's homes...

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Lack of zoning is why Houston is such a small and unsuccessful city!

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you left out the part about how it such a clean city with few, if any, ghettos.

There are plenty of strip malls along the highways within Houston city limits. But you are correct, they are continually moving out with the suburbs. I'm not sure land use zoning is what Houston needs, but it does need something. There are so many basic urban planning tools that many other cities have that Houston simply does not because of the property rights culture here.

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When you decide to sell your piece of property, would you like the whole world bidding on that property or would you like a more limited pool of buyers? Zoning will inevitably limit the competition for your site to those entities for which it is specifically zoned.

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This is the most ridiculous statement made concerning this issue. The easiest argument against this is the example of the ENTIRE STATE OF CALIFORNIA. Zoning laws have just decimated their property values beyond belief due to the lack of "competition" for a site. If properly zoned, it creates demand for property in given areas.

And for those that want an example of what the lack of zoning can do, take a look at ALL OF 1960. It is the worst conglomeration of poorly planned businesses I have ever seen in a city.

i'd still like a concrete example of why zoning is bad in Houston. a street section or neighborhood as an example would be appreciated.

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however with zoning we wouldn't have communities like the heights that so fluidly incorporate privately owned businesses within walking distance to people's homes...

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like used car lots?

CalAg, I'm no rocket scientist but it sounds like you just proved my point.

You just stated that zoning laws limited competition and decimated property values. And then you put a big IF on the end of that sentence to prove my other point...who's crystal ball would you like to use to ensure that your property is properly zoned to maximize its value today, tomorrow, or 50 years from now?

I'm not that familiar with the 1960 area you are referencing, but are home values severely depressed in that area? I live 1/4 mile off of Hwy. 6 just south of I-10 which looks worse to me than any area of 1960 I've seen between I-10 and 290. The homes in my hood are pricey and steadily rising at a better than average clip based on the history of the appraised values over the 25 years since they were built.

Again, MY two cents...

[This message has been edited by Texasduffer (edited 1/2/2008 9:50p).]

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For two decades, I lived on the East Coast studying and teaching zoning law. While writing a book about zoning, I realized I needed to go to the ground zero of no-zoning.

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Same as the kid who does a 6-month study-abroad in Amsterdam, then comes back and preaches the gospel of bike-lanes.

But she's an "expert".

Zoning has been on the ballot three times and was soundly defeated all three times.