We know where she stands on the issue ...

He is arguably the best ever. He certainly belongs in that coversation.

Michael Penix deserves some love

halfastros81 said:

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2012 team would have won the title had they not screwed the pooch vs LSU. Five turnovers and lost by 5 pts. Give LSU credit tho , they had a good plan. Coulda, shoulda, woulda … didn't.

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I'm sure it's been discussed many times but UGA was no slouch that season and you can't assume A&M beats UGA in the SECCG. Definitely a possible win but not a gimme.

No. Not in the discussion. He was amazing to watch and brought us an enormous amount of attention.

MAYBE top ten.

4 said:

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Roger Staubach.

He was Johnny before Johnny.

Would've won 2 Heismans had he not been injured his senior year.

But I'd say it's those 2

Side note: Staubach also lettered in all 3 major men's sports during his 4 years at Navy. Scouts said he was good enough to go pro in all 3.

After Bo Jackson, Roger may have been the best college athlete ever

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Staubach was chiseled like a Greek god. Unbelievable athlete.

Heineken-Ashi said:

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Surprised nobody brought up Kellen Sully Mond yet.

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It's because he doesn't belong anywhere near this conversation. Nor does any other A&M QB not named Johnny Manziel.

Vince Young was equally amazing though, for example. And Young was unstoppable in that game versus an all-time great USC team to win a natty. JFF was amazing too but if I had to choose college Vince versus college Johnny to QB my team, and trying to take any of my Maroon blinders off, would be a very hard choice. Go back and watch some VY highlights from that season they won natty.

Heineken-Ashi said:

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Surprised nobody brought up Kellen Sully Mond yet.

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what?

Best I ever saw. Put up 42 points on Bama and lost. If we had had a defense back then, who knows?

the most cool guy said:

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Heineken-Ashi said:

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Surprised nobody brought up Kellen Sully Mond yet.

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what?

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he meant that as an insult. he wasn't serious...

He is surprised yet he is the only one who brought him up

Pumpkinhead said:

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Vince Young was equally amazing though, for example. And Young was unstoppable in that game versus an all-time great USC team to win a natty. JFF was amazing too but if I had to choose college Vince versus college Johnny to QB my team, and trying to take any of my Maroon blinders off, would be a very hard choice. Go back and watch some VY highlights from that season they won natty.

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Technically they did stop him.



Coulda, woulda, shoulda, but I don't think Texas gets a win with modern replay. That was a huge turning point

SteveA said:

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Now do Johnny without Evans. Still think he's the best?

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The data analysis was done before. Evans accounted for something like 25% of his total yards and 17% of his total TDs. For comparison, Marvin Harrison accounts for higher percentages of Peyton Manning's totals than Evans does for Johnny. Recognizing Evans' greatness doesn't need to diminish Johnny's

The Banned said:

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SteveA said:

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Now do Johnny without Evans. Still think he's the best?

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The data analysis was done before. Evans accounted for something like 25% of his total yards and 17% of his total TDs. For comparison, Marvin Harrison accounts for higher percentages of Peyton Manning's totals than Evans does for Johnny. Recognizing Evans' greatness doesn't need to diminish Johnny's

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No doubt. All the quarterbacks considered had great teams.

JFF also had 4 OL he played with go in the first round (pick #s 2, 6, 21, and 31), which is pretty good.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Texas_A%26M_Aggies_in_the_NFL_draft

John Elway and Tim Tebow deserve some consideration. Elway with an inferior Stanford team, and Tebow despite his challenges in the Pros.

Steve McNair - bigger and thicker - changed the game as a whole for QBs in the 90s as teams made sure to not let that happen again and turn athletic QBs from high school to DBs in college cause of perception

Just played for the wrong coach in the NFL

AgExtension said:

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John Elway and Tim Tebow deserve some consideration. Elway with an inferior Stanford team, and Tebow despite his challenges in the Pros.

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I was going to say Elway as well. i don't think he had any teammates that were NFL-bound. Put him on one of probably 30 different traditionally good teams in the 80s and that team wins multiple titles.

Tebow and Tommie Frazier are also ahead of JFF in my book. I can't penalize guys for being more physically gifted than Manziel, that's sort of silly.

I'd also posit if you could have put 50% of Bucky Richardson's love for A&M / love for football into Manziel's head, he might have been the best ever.

3rd and 15, there's no other QB I'd take over JFF.

Penalizing him for not winning a title is dumb. This isn't basketball where one dude can carry a team. But JFF was close. Plenty of game manager QBs have won titles. They are nowhere near JFF.

If you package up his O-line, Mike Evans and Swope... yes, he could be considered the best QB in college football history. Certainly most exciting QB i've ever seen.

Not even close!

Ever hear of,
Johnny Unitas
Bart Star
Roger Staubach
Joe Namath
Terry Bradshaw
Bobby Lane, sip
Joe Montana

Should I go on?

aeon-ag said:

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Not even close!

Ever hear of,
Johnny Unitas
Bart Star
Roger Staubach
Joe Namath
Terry Bradshaw
Bobby Lane, sip
Joe Montana

Should I go on?

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Ok let's get you to bed grandpa.

The Banned said:

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Pumpkinhead said:

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Vince Young was equally amazing though, for example. And Young was unstoppable in that game versus an all-time great USC team to win a natty. JFF was amazing too but if I had to choose college Vince versus college Johnny to QB my team, and trying to take any of my Maroon blinders off, would be a very hard choice. Go back and watch some VY highlights from that season they won natty.

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Technically they did stop him.



Coulda, woulda, shoulda, but I don't think Texas gets a win with modern replay. That was a huge turning point

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This call was made in the 2nd quarter, not late in the 4th. VY tore USC up all night. Had he been marked down in this pic, it still would have been 1st down at the 10 yd line. Can't believe how many of you guys still cling to this notion that the game was gifted to TX because of this no call.

Obviously, Manziel had freakish talent, much of which was undisciplined and ultimately squandered. My dad, class of '47, commented about him once..."A fast pissing horse don't piss long." My top 5 in no particular order are Peyton Manning, Tebow, Frazier, Burrow and Mayfield, who when considering was a walk-on, might be the GOAT (at least in the last 30 years).

Best in my lifetime.

Slicer97 said:

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He was the most entertaining to watch.

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Winner.

As much as I loved watching him, "best" to me implies you at least have your personal house in some semblance of order, even if not neat.

Yes

aeon-ag said:

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Not even close!

Ever hear of,
Johnny Unitas
Bart Star
Roger Staubach
Joe Namath
Terry Bradshaw
Bobby Lane, sip
Joe Montana

Should I go on?

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Heard of and watched them all. The only one who reminded me of Johnny (especially when watching his film) was Fran Tarkenton. Give him a google and see if you don't agree.

It amazes me that people STILL manufacture lies to themselves about A&M almost winning a national championship in 2012.

Those who do have some huge mental hurdles to jump in their heads to make that work out. We are talking about at least two "what ifs" levels to convince themselves of that fantasy scenario I.e. what if 1) UF wouldn't have been the first game for Johnny and/or what if 2) A&M would have beat LSU. Those are the most common sentiments Texags has gifted the internet over the last decade.

My personal favorite Texagsism is (paraphrasing) "but but but nobody wanted to play A&M at the end of 2012."

There are infinitely many scenarios where things go wrong under the made up premise that somehow A&M almost won it all 2012.

Anyway… now back to your regularly scheduled thread on worship of a knucklehead (to put it kindly).

There is a strong case to be made about A&M winning it all in 2012 and the "no one wanted to face the Aggies at the end of that season" statements.

On the latter, I give you sip. They were the team that should have been in the Cotton that year, not OU. The Big 12 regularly elevated a team with a record like sip's that year to the Cotton (see A&M, 2005), yet that year they did not. Why? Because sip knew that A&M would drive right over them and their delusions of grandeur could not allow for that. So they sent their red-headed ******ed stepbrother to be the roadkill.

On the former statement, you are right in that a lot of stuff has to work out for the Aggies. If they don't get that bullcrap chop block (?) penalty on a TD against LSU, they win that game. If all goes as it did, they go to Atlanta to face UGA. I like our chances against UGA, but recall that Alabama had to survive a last second drive that ended because their receiver couldn't get the first down. So that probably is a close game between the Ags and Dawgs.

But where it falls apart for me is the Alabama game. What big-name team had we beaten prior to Alabama? Auburn has a big name but they were a steaming pile of crap that year. So none. In typical arrogant fashion, Alabama assumed that the Ags were coming to play in the Majors and would be shown how insignificant they truly were. I think had we beaten either LSU or the Gators, that would have changed Bama's attitude in preparing for us and more specifically, for Johnny. They clearly were not ready for that kid, but with better focus from the players (I'm certain that Saban did what he needed to do to get his guys ready, but at the end of the day, it's the kids that have to make the plays) the Ags probably don't go up 14-0 right out of the gates. And even with all of that, we still had to survive a 4th down run from the Bama QB and execute a perfect "bob" to draw that offsides to actually secure that win.

I think he has the top 2 total offense years in the sec.
NM, Burrow broke it.

MagnumLoad said:

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I think he has the top 2 total offense years in the sec.

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At the time.
Burrow now has the most by almost 1k yards. Jayden slipped by JFF's '13 for 3rd. Humorously Bryce fell one yard short.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/conferences/sec/leaders/tot-yds-player-season.html

Who?mikejones! said:

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No. I dont think so.

Tim Tebow
Vince
Tommy Frazier
Cam Newtown
Matr Leinart
Joe burrow
Ken dorsey
Charlie ward

Those are off the top of my head

Johnny is an all time great but I dont think you can put him at the top of the list

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This is a silly list. Put Johnny on the teams that Frazier, Dorsey, Ward and Leinart had and they'd be better. Those guys had all star teams. Just because they won doesn't in any way mean they were better than Johnny

Lol. Johnny had a great team. Damn near every offensive player got drafted.

There's just not a lot to suggest he is the greatest of all time. He is a great and in the discussion but probably really ranks in the teens.

No, he is not. He was the most exciting guy to watch but he was not the best college Qb of all time.

Who?mikejones! said:

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Lol. Johnny had a great team. Damn near every offensive player got drafted.

There's just not a lot to suggest he is the greatest of all time. He is a great and in the discussion but probably really ranks in the teens.

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3 of the 4 OL JFF played with taken in the 1st round were higher picks than Manziel (pick #s 2, 6, and 21). Add in Evans (pick # 7) and JFF was the 5th most coveted player for the offense on those teams.

Edit - fell for the JH bait too.