100%. I'm not mad about where we are. It's inevitable and I don't blame them taking shots on older free agents to keep it open. They just need to adjust to the new reality.scd88 said:
The Astros have carried us through several years of frustration with our other teams. I won't ***** about where we are and will always be grateful for that hellacious run.
The rebuild will be interesting.
***** Official Houston Astros 2026 Season Thread *****
549,353 Views |
9109 Replies |
Last: 13 min ago by linkdude
The owners should be looking for a workaround. Like get rid of the tax on local tv revenue and tax based on something else (maybe just higher taxes for going over the luxury tax). No more free rides for LA.agproducer said:
I don't love Bonda, but the video is interesting. It's a quick reference for our friends like Elite.Here’s reason number a billion why you don’t hate the Dodgers enough.
— Bonda (@BenOndaTop) May 7, 2026
Rigged TV rights deals, Deferred contracts, Daddy ball treatment from MLB…
Can’t even express how sinister this organization & MLB were for what they did to us. All in the name of “sign stealing 🤪”. pic.twitter.com/F9m3ifC4Vt
MaxPower said:scd88 said:
The Astros have carried us through several years of frustration with our other teams. I won't ***** about where we are and will always be grateful for that hellacious run.
The rebuild will be interesting.
100%. I'm not mad about where we are. It's inevitable and I don't blame them taking shots on older free agents to keep it open. They just need to adjust to the new reality.
Do you think it's possible for this org to make some good trades, regroup, and compete again in a couple years?
It shouldn't really surprise us (despite our hopes to the contrary) that it has come to this.
Our self-imposed penalties in 2020 were way more brutal than even the loss of draft picks. Not only did it obviously cost us Lunhow and Hinch, but it changed Crane. He went from trusting his leading edge braintrust and just writing checks to meddling more and not trusting his baseball people.
From 2020 and beyond we lost the edge that made us a great organization. The ML talent was good enough to sustaib us a little longer, though. Even as we lost front office people, Click was a strong hire who optimized thr ML roster. Then Crane fired Click.
It has all been downhill decay since the 2022 WS.
Now we have no braintrust, no elite analytics, no pitching lab, no minor league surplus, etc.
We still have some great ML pieces, but to steer us back to greatness without a full teardown is going to require great minds like we used to have - not the JAGs we have now.
Our self-imposed penalties in 2020 were way more brutal than even the loss of draft picks. Not only did it obviously cost us Lunhow and Hinch, but it changed Crane. He went from trusting his leading edge braintrust and just writing checks to meddling more and not trusting his baseball people.
From 2020 and beyond we lost the edge that made us a great organization. The ML talent was good enough to sustaib us a little longer, though. Even as we lost front office people, Click was a strong hire who optimized thr ML roster. Then Crane fired Click.
It has all been downhill decay since the 2022 WS.
Now we have no braintrust, no elite analytics, no pitching lab, no minor league surplus, etc.
We still have some great ML pieces, but to steer us back to greatness without a full teardown is going to require great minds like we used to have - not the JAGs we have now.
Firing Click was such a weird decision looking back. Never understood that one.
Yup, hard to get too upset. The dynasty wasn't going to last forever.
Just hope we can be smart through the sell off and rebuild in a way to make the next up cycle anywhere near as fun as this one was.
7 ALCS appearances, 4 wolds series and 2 championships.
Only the 90's braves we're comparable to that, or at least doing it without a massively favored set of circumstances like the Dodgers or Yankees get.
Just hope we can be smart through the sell off and rebuild in a way to make the next up cycle anywhere near as fun as this one was.
7 ALCS appearances, 4 wolds series and 2 championships.
Only the 90's braves we're comparable to that, or at least doing it without a massively favored set of circumstances like the Dodgers or Yankees get.
FrioAg 00 said:
Yup, hard to get too upset. The dynasty wasn't going to last forever.
Just hope we can be smart through the sell off and rebuild in a way to make the next up cycle anywhere near as fun as this one was.
7 ALCS appearances, 4 wolds series and 2 championships.
Only the 90's braves we're comparable to that, or at least doing it without a massively favored set of circumstances like the Dodgers or Yankees get.
Except the 90s Braves didn't win 2 titles.
The current Dodgers run and the late 90s/early 00s Yankees tops our dynasty. Besides those you have to go back a very long way. I'd take our run over the Giants 3 titles in 5 years, I'd take our run over the 90s Braves, and I'd take our run over the Big Red Machine. I'd probably give the 1970s Swinging As the edge. 3 titles and 5 CS in 5 years.
3rd best dynasty over the last 50 years. Not too shabby.
tjack16 said:scd88 said:
The Astros have carried us through several years of frustration with our other teams. I won't ***** about where we are and will always be grateful for that hellacious run.
The rebuild will be interesting.
I'm definitely thankful for the run they had… But I'd be lying if I said I'm content with how things are going. There was definitely a window to keep being a playoff team last year and this year if they made smarter moves and didn't give out so many bad contracts.
There is zero way that 2024 team should have had the horrendous start they did and go 0-2 in the wild card series.
Luhnow's departure has been a masterclass in mismanagement; it'd have been hard to top the Hunsicker --> Purpura --> Wade cascade of failure....but Luhnow --> Click --> Brown has been a special sort of trash.
Dana Brown is going to go out as the worst GM this organization has seen (relative to what he inherited vs. his predecessors) and it's going to take another total rebuild to get his stink off the organization. Brown has proven that you can ruin an organization through management failure and poor hires as effectively as you can with bad scouting.
The 2024 team reference is where it comes into play...it was obvious to anyone with a pulse that Joe Espada was in over his head in April of 2024; of course he got more time, but he crashed out in the playoffs, missed last year and amazingly, here we are in May of 2026 and the guy is still managing the team! The hitting staff was terrible in 2022; team got hot in October and whereas they were destined to be fired after the '22 season, they were retained b/c the front office completely ignored months of failure due to one month where they were useful. '23, '24 & then '25 were nothing but a continuation of the bulk of the offense for '22 and they were FINALLY fired after the '25 season.
Josh Miller is a terrible pitching coach...how he is still here is amazing; the staff has been a mess from a fundamentals standpoint since he took over (WHIP has consistently been on-the-rise, failure to control opponents' on the bases, etc.); it's b/c you have an executive who seems to be completely incapable of a macro view of the organization. (Ex: Gotta fix the hitting before we worry about the pitching)
The issue is that the rot for this organization was clearly in Dusty Baker's approach and his staff...rather than cut the rot out, they chose to keep the posts in place and repaint it, hoping nobody would notice.
There's clearly an issue with the medical staff, clearly an issue with the training staff, clearly an issue with the day-to-day game management/prep and yet nothing changes; it's almost like Manfred told Crane that he is going to hire Brown and he can't have any input into how the team is managed for 4 years due to the sign-stealing deal. Dana Brown has been a Gremlin and that mother f***er ate after midnight on day f'ing one on the job.
wehnerhigh20 said:
Firing Click was such a weird decision looking back. Never understood that one.
I don't know, I got it at the time...right now, if he were still here, we're probably not any better b/c we haven't really signed any FAs and we're saddled with a bunch of AAAA players who had value at some point and were stubbornly held onto.
Burn the whole thing down. Fire everyone and start over. Sell high on Yordan and Pena, and get what you can get for every other vet over 26 or so. Since he is a legend, give Altuve the option of staying here or going to a contender. Swallow your pride and bring back Luhnow, the best GM in Houston sports history. Sit through a few tough years and wait for another run. I'll still go to the ballpark and watch the games on tv.
Astros Bingo Update: 5-7-26
Astros Bingo has officially become more exciting than Astros Baseball as we had some movers and shakers in the standings yesterday.
HTownAg98 is our first player to reach 4 squares. He's got the freebie, the 6-game losing streak, the finishing last in any month other than March, and yesterday struck gold on Framber getting suspended; he's the only person to pick the Framber square.
Also cleaning up on player failures yesterday were Buck Compton, OPAG, and Big Al 1992, who are now all tied for second with 3 squares after scoring a pair each yesterday for picking CC to finish with fewer than 15 HR and 65 RBI.
Beyond this new elite class of pickers, we have 18 people with 2 squares each, leaving the other 50 of us, much like the Astros, in last place desperately trying to convince ourselves we're better than that.
That, of course, leads us to this week's installment of "I Really Regret Picking That Square"
Yainer Diaz > 20 home runs. Picked by 6 people. He's has 3 in the first 38 games of the year and is hurt.
Astros win 90-94 games: Picked by 7 people. At their current winning percentage, the Astros would need the season to be 213 games long to win 90 games.
Basically anything about Jeremy Pena: 18 people picked him to either exceed 20 stolen bases or 18 homers. He has 0 homers and 1 stolen base. 16 people picked him to make the All-Star game.
Astros end (your month here) in first place: 10 different people picked some variation of this, three of them picked May.
Hader > 30 saves; Abreu > 30 save/holds: Hader still hasn't played. Abreu has 1 save and 2 holds. That's not gonna get it done, friends.
STAT OF THE DAY: Luis Salazar now has a better ERA than Bryan Abreu, Colton Gordon, Cristian Javier, Jason Alexander, and Rodney Munoz
Astros Bingo has officially become more exciting than Astros Baseball as we had some movers and shakers in the standings yesterday.
HTownAg98 is our first player to reach 4 squares. He's got the freebie, the 6-game losing streak, the finishing last in any month other than March, and yesterday struck gold on Framber getting suspended; he's the only person to pick the Framber square.
Also cleaning up on player failures yesterday were Buck Compton, OPAG, and Big Al 1992, who are now all tied for second with 3 squares after scoring a pair each yesterday for picking CC to finish with fewer than 15 HR and 65 RBI.
Beyond this new elite class of pickers, we have 18 people with 2 squares each, leaving the other 50 of us, much like the Astros, in last place desperately trying to convince ourselves we're better than that.
That, of course, leads us to this week's installment of "I Really Regret Picking That Square"
Yainer Diaz > 20 home runs. Picked by 6 people. He's has 3 in the first 38 games of the year and is hurt.
Astros win 90-94 games: Picked by 7 people. At their current winning percentage, the Astros would need the season to be 213 games long to win 90 games.
Basically anything about Jeremy Pena: 18 people picked him to either exceed 20 stolen bases or 18 homers. He has 0 homers and 1 stolen base. 16 people picked him to make the All-Star game.
Astros end (your month here) in first place: 10 different people picked some variation of this, three of them picked May.
Hader > 30 saves; Abreu > 30 save/holds: Hader still hasn't played. Abreu has 1 save and 2 holds. That's not gonna get it done, friends.
STAT OF THE DAY: Luis Salazar now has a better ERA than Bryan Abreu, Colton Gordon, Cristian Javier, Jason Alexander, and Rodney Munoz
If Crane allows it and doesn't monkey with it (like force them to get big league players in return). We have no credible testimony on exactly how much meddling Crane does, we just know there's at least some.Mr. Awesome Time said:MaxPower said:scd88 said:
The Astros have carried us through several years of frustration with our other teams. I won't ***** about where we are and will always be grateful for that hellacious run.
The rebuild will be interesting.
100%. I'm not mad about where we are. It's inevitable and I don't blame them taking shots on older free agents to keep it open. They just need to adjust to the new reality.
Do you think it's possible for this org to make some good trades, regroup, and compete again in a couple years?
Agreed. The word at the time was Click wasn't bold enough. Looking back, I think that was code for "He's too willing to tell Crane he's being a dumbass". That's why my suspicion is CW, Hader, and Imai are 95% Crane moves. By bold, he meant shut up and GM Danawehnerhigh20 said:
Firing Click was such a weird decision looking back. Never understood that one.
We know Crane meddles with the large contract guys (CC, JV, Hader, Imai) but I don't believe he meddles in Dana's construction of depth. Which I see as the big problem.
The fact that every time through the rotation we have 2 starts by TBD because we don't have a pitcher who's able to just come in and eat innings is unfathomable. Same can be said for the lack of positional depth in the minors.
As many have pointed out there are viable options out there that Dana has not explored. I don't think that's because of Crane meddling.
The fact that every time through the rotation we have 2 starts by TBD because we don't have a pitcher who's able to just come in and eat innings is unfathomable. Same can be said for the lack of positional depth in the minors.
As many have pointed out there are viable options out there that Dana has not explored. I don't think that's because of Crane meddling.
the big positive going forward...
the Astros still play in the AL West
just have to be better than the A's, Angels, Mariners, and Rangers -- and they all have problems too
free agency will break up Seattle's starting rotation soon
the Astros still play in the AL West
just have to be better than the A's, Angels, Mariners, and Rangers -- and they all have problems too
free agency will break up Seattle's starting rotation soon
CharleyKerfeld said:
in last place desperately trying to convince ourselves we're better than that.
ain't that the truth
https://ts.la/eric59704
I will continue to point out that Lunhow did not bat 1.000. He whiffed on back-to-back number 1 overall picks, but luckily got a redo for Aiken the next year. He made some pretty bad trades, too. We also never saw him have to keep a dynasty going or how he would have handled guys hitting free agency. He had a team stocked with cheap, controllable talent and was able to spend to supplement that with veteran leadership. And he had stocked the farm system either enough prospects to make deadline trades.
But it wasn't a sustainable model. He was eventually going to have to be a different type of GM who had more financial constraints, less prospects, and stars hitting free agency. It would have been interesting to see him evolve, if he would have stayed. He might have jumped ship to take on another reclamation project.
But it wasn't a sustainable model. He was eventually going to have to be a different type of GM who had more financial constraints, less prospects, and stars hitting free agency. It would have been interesting to see him evolve, if he would have stayed. He might have jumped ship to take on another reclamation project.
Ag_07 said:
We know Crane meddles with the large contract guys (CC, JV, Hader, Imai) but I don't believe he meddles in Dana's construction of depth. Which I see as the big problem.
The fact that every time through the rotation we have 2 starts by TBD because we don't have a pitcher who's able to just come in and eat innings is unfathomable. Same can be said for the lack of positional depth in the minors.
As many have pointed out there are viable options out there that Dana has not explored. I don't think that's because of Crane meddling.
While I agree with you on Crane only meddling with large contracts, don't you think that has an impact on the amount of money left to spend on depth? If he wants to meddle and sign big money guys on his own, he can't also give his GM a cap to not go over and expect him the get quality depth. He can't have it both ways.
another decline from Luhnow to Click to Dana...
utility players and bench guys who could hit
the Astros went from Marisnick's .815 OPS in 2017 and Aledmys Diaz' .823 OPS in 2019
to celebrating Dubon's .650 OPS year after year
the organization shifted to placing great value on defense over offense...and that's not how the dynasty was built
utility players and bench guys who could hit
the Astros went from Marisnick's .815 OPS in 2017 and Aledmys Diaz' .823 OPS in 2019
to celebrating Dubon's .650 OPS year after year
the organization shifted to placing great value on defense over offense...and that's not how the dynasty was built
quoting the sign stealing year and rabbit ball year on your two examples of bench guys going crazy isn't that great of an argument lol
What's been more of an issue in recent years is being unable to find platoon advantages hitting (lack of LHB) and not being able to keep our studs healthy (or not be willing to keep them).
If you could tell me that before Yordan hits his next contract, one of Neyens/K. Alvarez will be flashing to come up and mash I would feel a lot better about the future. Need a new infusion of talent in the high minors/majors. This year's draft is huge.
What's been more of an issue in recent years is being unable to find platoon advantages hitting (lack of LHB) and not being able to keep our studs healthy (or not be willing to keep them).
If you could tell me that before Yordan hits his next contract, one of Neyens/K. Alvarez will be flashing to come up and mash I would feel a lot better about the future. Need a new infusion of talent in the high minors/majors. This year's draft is huge.
it's crazy to think that basically everyone is gone from the 2022 rotation, only ten starts from that year are still in the org: 8 from LMJ, 2 from Hunter)
W said:
another decline from Luhnow to Click to Dana...
utility players and bench guys who could hit
the Astros went from Marisnick's .815 OPS in 2017 and Aledmys Diaz' .823 OPS in 2019
to celebrating Dubon's .650 OPS year after year
the organization shifted to placing great value on defense over offense...and that's not how the dynasty was built
You're looking at raw OPS. As linkdude said, '17 and more so '19 have extra hot balls. Looking at something like OPS+ or wRC+ will be a more apples-to-apples comparison.
edit: Jake needed the sign stealing to be a good hitter.
I don't agree with your assessment on shifting great value on defense over offense. We've always put major emphasis on defense. That is one of the reasons we were ahead of the curve on extreme shifts. It just became harder to find players who had both tools.
Fielding Run Value
2018 - 3rd (187)
2019 - 3rd (138)
2020 - 6th (110)
2021 - 4th (107)
2022 - 8th (77)
2023 - 10th (28)
2024 - 11th (25)
2025 - 9th (19)
2026 - 12th (2)
Usually, the teams ahead of us had the edge in Catching Runs.
linkdude said:
it's crazy to think that basically everyone is gone from the 2022 rotation, only ten starts from that year are still in the org: 8 from LMJ, 2 from Hunter)
Lance was barely in that rotation. He came back from injury late. Javier, however, was a key piece. That's 3 more starts.
Bingosuperaggie73 said:Ag_07 said:
We know Crane meddles with the large contract guys (CC, JV, Hader, Imai) but I don't believe he meddles in Dana's construction of depth. Which I see as the big problem.
The fact that every time through the rotation we have 2 starts by TBD because we don't have a pitcher who's able to just come in and eat innings is unfathomable. Same can be said for the lack of positional depth in the minors.
As many have pointed out there are viable options out there that Dana has not explored. I don't think that's because of Crane meddling.
While I agree with you on Crane only meddling with large contracts, don't you think that has an impact on the amount of money left to spend on depth? If he wants to meddle and sign big money guys on his own, he can't also give his GM a cap to not go over and expect him the get quality depth. He can't have it both ways.
Farmer1906 said:linkdude said:
it's crazy to think that basically everyone is gone from the 2022 rotation, only ten starts from that year are still in the org: 8 from LMJ, 2 from Hunter)
Lance was barely in that rotation. He came back from injury late. Javier, however, was a key piece. That's 3 more starts.
Outside of the guys Crane tends to sign on his own, the biggest issue this team has now is that the 2 pitchers we have extended ended up getting hurt and being nothing close to what they were before. That's can't happen when you don't have unlimited payroll.
lol I mentally counted out Javi, whoops. He seems to be going the Lance route of health/effectiveness, unfortunatelyFarmer1906 said:linkdude said:
it's crazy to think that basically everyone is gone from the 2022 rotation, only ten starts from that year are still in the org: 8 from LMJ, 2 from Hunter)
Lance was barely in that rotation. He came back from injury late. Javier, however, was a key piece. That's 3 more starts.
Yup, but that's the difficult part.
When Lance was extended, he was fully healthy after TJ. He made all his starts in 2020 and 28 in 2021. Combined, he had a 3.35 ERA across 217.1 innings. At 5/85 M he seemed like a great value compared to 7/131 for Berrios, 5/115 for Ray, and 5/110 for Gausman.
Same with Javier. He looked good once he fully transitioned to a SP. In 2022, he pitched in 30 games (25 starts) with a 2.54 ERA, not counting the awesome postseason. All it took to keep him during his prime (age 29 & 30 seasons) was estimating his 2nd and 3rd arb years, then a measly 43 M (21.5 per).
This is exactly what we all want.
When Lance was extended, he was fully healthy after TJ. He made all his starts in 2020 and 28 in 2021. Combined, he had a 3.35 ERA across 217.1 innings. At 5/85 M he seemed like a great value compared to 7/131 for Berrios, 5/115 for Ray, and 5/110 for Gausman.
Same with Javier. He looked good once he fully transitioned to a SP. In 2022, he pitched in 30 games (25 starts) with a 2.54 ERA, not counting the awesome postseason. All it took to keep him during his prime (age 29 & 30 seasons) was estimating his 2nd and 3rd arb years, then a measly 43 M (21.5 per).
This is exactly what we all want.
The interesting thing to me is why Crane is so adverse to long term deals with batters of over 5 years but is perfectly fine throwing bags at the most injury prone position. By interesting I mean…..nonsensical
Farmer1906 said:
Yup, but that's the difficult part.
When Lance was extended, he was fully healthy after TJ. He made all his starts in 2020 and 28 in 2021. Combined, he had a 3.35 ERA across 217.1 innings. At 5/85 M he seemed like a great value compared to 7/131 for Berrios, 5/115 for Ray, and 5/110 for Gausman.
Same with Javier. He looked good once he fully transitioned to a SP. In 2022, he pitched in 30 games (25 starts) with a 2.54 ERA, not counting the awesome postseason. All it took to keep him during his prime (age 29 & 30 seasons) was estimating his 2nd and 3rd arb years, then a measly 43 M (21.5 per).
This is exactly what we all want.
I don't blame them for making those deals…it's just bad luck on the injury front on those guys that has us in a bind as well. Combine bad injury luck with the pitchers you have extended, big contracts that Crane deals with on his own, and loss of draft picks resulting in a very poor minor league system and Dana has been put in a bind from the beginning unless Crane were to take the self imposed salary cap off of him. Sure Dana hasn't been great, but he also hasn't been given much to work with either.
It's ironic that people want to put an asterisk on our first championship, yet there should be a much bigger asterisk on the Dodgers current run for all the reasons noted above.
I honestly do not find theirs impressive, given the league-sanctioned cheating they are benefiting from.
I do agree the Rivera era of the Yankees is #1 (as much as I hated them at the time)
I honestly do not find theirs impressive, given the league-sanctioned cheating they are benefiting from.
I do agree the Rivera era of the Yankees is #1 (as much as I hated them at the time)
Jeff (and Click for that matter) still lives in Houston. All it would take is for Crane to nut up and admit he screwed up and he might be able to get Jeff back for another reclamation project.
What do you boys want for breakfast BBQ ?.....OK Chili.
I don't think it's nearly that easy
Crane and Luhnow have some serious beef and IIRC Luhnow has somewhat been blacklisted in MLB and if I'm not mistaken it wasn't just for the sign stealing stuff. He's very good at what he does but he does it very unconventionally and his approach and methods often rub people the wrong way.
I think that's one reason he went the soccer route.
Bottom line is it ain't happening. I doubt JL ever returns to baseball much less working for Crane or the Astros.
Crane and Luhnow have some serious beef and IIRC Luhnow has somewhat been blacklisted in MLB and if I'm not mistaken it wasn't just for the sign stealing stuff. He's very good at what he does but he does it very unconventionally and his approach and methods often rub people the wrong way.
I think that's one reason he went the soccer route.
Bottom line is it ain't happening. I doubt JL ever returns to baseball much less working for Crane or the Astros.
The beef ended awhile back. They talk now and then. As for MLB and Lunhow - who knows.
What do you boys want for breakfast BBQ ?.....OK Chili.
MaxPower said:
The interesting thing to me is why Crane is so adverse to long term deals with batters of over 5 years but is perfectly fine throwing bags at the most injury prone position. By interesting I mean…..nonsensical
Crane was a pitcher.
Position bias.
Yes at the end of the day they took their shots and it didn't work out. You aren't going to hit on Correa's and Tucker's in the draft all the time and every contract isn't going to work out. Add to that the system penalizes success (worse draft picks, less money for IFA) and eventually you will go into a phase like this. The only question is can you adapt? First you have to admit it's over and then be decisive.
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