It's a dumb/arbitrary comparison. Elon hasn't been focused on Level 4 certification because of the limitations/liabilities that would be put on him.

Does this Level 4 cert get Elon to Mars faster? This is all that matters to Elon.

Where is the money to made in getting to Mars for a company? One of the reasons I am avoiding this stock is that it seems like obscene amounts of money are going into a pet project with no financial reward.

EFR said:

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Where is the money to made in getting to Mars for a company? One of the reasons I am avoiding this stock is that it seems like obscene amounts of money are going into a pet project with no financial reward.

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Um, first crack at resources.

EFR said:

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Where is the money to made in getting to Mars for a company? One of the reasons I am avoiding this stock is that it seems like obscene amounts of money are going into a pet project with no financial reward.

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Elon is on X. You can send him a message. I don't know his exact plan. Very little in prospectuses

JohnClark929 said:

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These companies have more Level 4 Autonomous Vehicles on the Road than Tesla: Baidu, Waymo, WeRide, PonyAI, Avride, Zoox, May Mobility, Nuro, there are others I can't remember

I'm a Tesla stockholder and have been for a long time; although I'm thinking of replacing it in my AI portfolio but that is a different discussion. My point is if Tesla can have a PE of 400 with 5 years of no EPS growth, then SpaceX can also have a ridiculous valuation. I bought SpaceX at $135. The objective is to make money, not to get caught up in pro/anti-Musk dogma.

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waymo doesnt build cars. Do any of these others own the manufacturing of the vehicle?

EFR said:

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People keep saying that. What resources? Where in the planet are they? How will you extract them? How will you monetize them? Until a realistic answers to those questions can be given it is just a multi billion dollar pet project. I don't see the mars adventure providing a single dollar of profit in my lifetime.

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Hell, if I know. I was just answering your question with the captain obvious answer that should be understood.

It's up to Elon to prove how realistic the answer is.

AggiEE said:

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JohnClark929 said:

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These companies have more Level 4 Autonomous Vehicles on the Road than Tesla: Baidu, Waymo, WeRide, PonyAI, Avride, Zoox, May Mobility, Nuro, there are others I can't remember

I'm a Tesla stockholder and have been for a long time; although I'm thinking of replacing it in my AI portfolio but that is a different discussion. My point is if Tesla can have a PE of 400 with 5 years of no EPS growth, then SpaceX can also have a ridiculous valuation. I bought SpaceX at $135. The objective is to make money, not to get caught up in pro/anti-Musk dogma.

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Yes, but this strategy is playing with fire and inevitably won't end well (See: Dot Com Bubble). It's essentially counting on everyone to be drunk and reckless with speculation.

It has asymmetric downside with limited upside. We're talking potential for no growth, yet very high likelihood for 90% declines just based on the valuation alone.

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Possibly so, but the key to me is to use trailing stop losses on any speculative stock. I put a 145 TSL on my SpaceX so somewhat limiting my potential losses. Stock movements are often based on emotions and not on fundamentals.

If SpaceX goes down 90% to $17 might be the best thing to occur in the long run as I will be buying a thousand shares or more,

AggiEE said:

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JohnClark929 said:

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These companies have more Level 4 Autonomous Vehicles on the Road than Tesla: Baidu, Waymo, WeRide, PonyAI, Avride, Zoox, May Mobility, Nuro, there are others I can't remember

I'm a Tesla stockholder and have been for a long time; although I'm thinking of replacing it in my AI portfolio but that is a different discussion. My point is if Tesla can have a PE of 400 with 5 years of no EPS growth, then SpaceX can also have a ridiculous valuation. I bought SpaceX at $135. The objective is to make money, not to get caught up in pro/anti-Musk dogma.

---

Yes, but this strategy is playing with fire and inevitably won't end well (See: Dot Com Bubble). It's essentially counting on everyone to be drunk and reckless with speculation.

It has asymmetric downside with limited upside. We're talking potential for no growth, yet very high likelihood for 90% declines just based on the valuation alone.

---

Yes it is playing with fire which is why my exposure is limited, I consider it gambling money. You mention a 90% downside which I admit is probable but I think it is more probable that it at least doubles in price before the big downside happens. I trust Musk fans will keep the price moving higher for now. The big issue at the moment is short-sellers however most of them have learned their lesson the hard-way going against Musk on Tesla (e.g. 400PE with no EPS growth in 5 years). Even if short-sellers are crazy enough to go after SpaceX now, I suspect retail investors would force a short squeeze.

Fundamentals don't matter until there's a recession.

Until then it's an analysis of near term buying pressure from NQ and russell, followed by all the unlocks that happen into end of year. There are hundreds of $B unlocking, will depend on the markets appetite, along with the rollercoaster of the next few Starship launches.

Things like catching ship are going to pump the F out of this stock

My take as well. Everyone I know even people that don't normally dabble in the market is buying a few shares. I think the upside at least for the short term is already priced in and the downside is potentially much higher although I could be completely wrong….

Medaggie said:

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Anyone who thinks Tesla FSD is behind any company is laughable and to think there are 10+ Companies who has level 4 is even more laughable unless you just read the headlines without understanding what it means.

Drop any car on any road in the US and tell it to go to the next city 100 miles away. Tesla will get you there every single time. Every other company would fail miserably. Most likely would not even move.

To say that any company is ahead of Tesla because they have some "Badge" is ill-informed.

SpaceX is over-valued if you look at almost every metric BUT in no way is it a Pump/Dump/Ponzi.

People said this about Tesla and lost badly shorting it. If you think SPaceX is a Pump/Dump, then why not short it/sell a bearish option?

---

Betting AGAINST Musk is very dangerous. Dude is Midas.

AggiEE said:

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Medaggie said:

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Anyone who thinks Tesla FSD is behind any company is laughable and to think there are 10+ Companies who has level 4 is even more laughable unless you just read the headlines without understanding what it means.

Drop any car on any road in the US and tell it to go to the next city 100 miles away. Tesla will get you there every single time. Every other company would fail miserably. Most likely would not even move.

To say that any company is ahead of Tesla because they have some "Badge" is ill-informed.

SpaceX is over-valued if you look at almost every metric BUT in no way is it a Pump/Dump/Ponzi.

People said this about Tesla and lost badly shorting it. If you think SPaceX is a Pump/Dump, then why not short it/sell a bearish option?

---

"No, Tesla Full Self-Driving (FSD) cannot reliably navigate a 100-mile trip without driver intervention. While it is highly capable on highways and can complete long stretches autonomously under ideal conditions, the system is legally classified as Level 2. It strictly requires you to actively supervise and be ready to take control at any moment"

---

It cannot navigate a 100-mile trip without driver observation. It can certainly navigate 100 miles without driver intervention and it is highly capable even under non-ideal conditions.

Robotaxis are level 4 and operating now. FSD would be level 4 right now if geo-fenced.

Is that quote from Waymo or perhaps from 4 years ago?!

Quote:

---

June 14th

Tesla FSD is getting harder and harder to distinguish from a driverless vehicle. Tesla's latest version of FSD, v14.3.3, feels more like a Level 4 driverless ADAS than past versions of FSD. Of all the car manufacturers today pursuing an advanced ADAS, Tesla is ahead. Way ahead.

I just finished testing a 2026 Toyota bZ with Toyota's version of an ADAS. It is a very basic lane centering technology. And this is from the largest car manufacturer in the world. When I drive with (Tesla) FSD now, I just sit there as a passenger and monitor the drive." - Forbes contributor Brooke Crothers

---

Quote:

---

June 10th

Piper Sandler analyst Alexander Potter said Tesla's fully autonomous software has effectively reached level 4 autonomous driving.

The company cited Tesla's insurance, handleless and pedalless Cybercab production, license application for robotaxi infrastructure, FSD subscription data sharing, and robotaxi service expansion as the basis for this view.

---

Logos Stick said:

---

AggiEE said:

---

Medaggie said:

---

Anyone who thinks Tesla FSD is behind any company is laughable and to think there are 10+ Companies who has level 4 is even more laughable unless you just read the headlines without understanding what it means.

Drop any car on any road in the US and tell it to go to the next city 100 miles away. Tesla will get you there every single time. Every other company would fail miserably. Most likely would not even move.

To say that any company is ahead of Tesla because they have some "Badge" is ill-informed.

SpaceX is over-valued if you look at almost every metric BUT in no way is it a Pump/Dump/Ponzi.

People said this about Tesla and lost badly shorting it. If you think SPaceX is a Pump/Dump, then why not short it/sell a bearish option?

---

"No, Tesla Full Self-Driving (FSD) cannot reliably navigate a 100-mile trip without driver intervention. While it is highly capable on highways and can complete long stretches autonomously under ideal conditions, the system is legally classified as Level 2. It strictly requires you to actively supervise and be ready to take control at any moment"

---

It cannot navigate a 100-mile trip without driver observation. It can certainly navigate 100 miles without driver intervention and it is highly capable even under non-ideal conditions.

Robotaxis are level 4 and operating now. FSD would be level 4 right now if geo-fenced.

Is that quote from Waymo or perhaps from 4 years ago?!

Quote:

---

June 14th

Tesla FSD is getting harder and harder to distinguish from a driverless vehicle. Tesla's latest version of FSD, v14.3.3, feels more like a Level 4 driverless ADAS than past versions of FSD. Of all the car manufacturers today pursuing an advanced ADAS, Tesla is ahead. Way ahead.

I just finished testing a 2026 Toyota bZ with Toyota's version of an ADAS. It is a very basic lane centering technology. And this is from the largest car manufacturer in the world. When I drive with (Tesla) FSD now, I just sit there as a passenger and monitor the drive." - Forbes contributor Brooke Crothers

---

Quote:

---

June 10th

Piper Sandler analyst Alexander Potter said Tesla's fully autonomous software has effectively reached level 4 autonomous driving.

The company cited Tesla's insurance, handleless and pedalless Cybercab production, license application for robotaxi infrastructure, FSD subscription data sharing, and robotaxi service expansion as the basis for this view.

---

---

If you and Tesla are so confident in those claims, why are they not insuring it? When Tesla takes 100% liability and I can sleep on the way to work like in their robotaxis, then they can be considered L4 "everywhere".

The robo taxi service is extremely limited. The geo-fence you talk about would be only a mere small fraction of the actual roads available to drive.

JohnClark929 said:

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YouBet said:

---

JohnClark929 said:

---

These companies have more Level 4 Autonomous Vehicles on the Road than Tesla: Baidu, Waymo, WeRide, PonyAI, Avride, Zoox, May Mobility, Nuro, there are others I can't remember

I'm a Tesla stockholder and have been for a long time; although I'm thinking of replacing it in my AI portfolio but that is a different discussion. My point is if Tesla can have a PE of 400 with 5 years of no EPS growth, then SpaceX can also have a ridiculous valuation. I bought SpaceX at $135. The objective is to make money, not to get caught up in pro/anti-Musk dogma.

---

I've never heard of any of these companies aside from Waymo (maybe Baidu), so I assume they are all Chinese companies. And that would make sense if they have more on the road because it's China. One billion people with an auto industry that is backed by the government to pump out as many EV's as possible. They have so many that they can't domestically absorb them which has led to them dumping them on the international market.

But do we actually know there FSD is apples to apples to Tesla?

---

It's not all 'China', both Avride and Nuro have more level 4 autonomous vehicles than Tesla on the road in TEXAS.

'Apples to apples' is Level 2; I don't know the numbers but I would assume Tesla is the world leader at level 2 deployed.

---

Does this count Teslas with FSD that are owned by individuals, or this only counting cars that are part of some kind of ride sharing service - ie for hire. Hard to believe that Tesla doesn't far outnumber these other brands. Of course I have no idea how many of these type of cars are running around in China.

Out of curiosity, I checked my fund holdings today. FXAIX is 1.88% Teslas.

So rich.

COVID rug-pulled so many different kinds of investors. IMO this one will be worse. And I'm a big fan of Elon, TSLA and SPCX. But if any asset you own ever goes parabolic its a good idea to cash out a material portion.

AggiEE said:

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Logos Stick said:

---

AggiEE said:

---

Medaggie said:

---

Anyone who thinks Tesla FSD is behind any company is laughable and to think there are 10+ Companies who has level 4 is even more laughable unless you just read the headlines without understanding what it means.

Drop any car on any road in the US and tell it to go to the next city 100 miles away. Tesla will get you there every single time. Every other company would fail miserably. Most likely would not even move.

To say that any company is ahead of Tesla because they have some "Badge" is ill-informed.

SpaceX is over-valued if you look at almost every metric BUT in no way is it a Pump/Dump/Ponzi.

People said this about Tesla and lost badly shorting it. If you think SPaceX is a Pump/Dump, then why not short it/sell a bearish option?

---

"No, Tesla Full Self-Driving (FSD) cannot reliably navigate a 100-mile trip without driver intervention. While it is highly capable on highways and can complete long stretches autonomously under ideal conditions, the system is legally classified as Level 2. It strictly requires you to actively supervise and be ready to take control at any moment"

---

It cannot navigate a 100-mile trip without driver observation. It can certainly navigate 100 miles without driver intervention and it is highly capable even under non-ideal conditions.

Robotaxis are level 4 and operating now. FSD would be level 4 right now if geo-fenced.

Is that quote from Waymo or perhaps from 4 years ago?!

Quote:

---

June 14th

Tesla FSD is getting harder and harder to distinguish from a driverless vehicle. Tesla's latest version of FSD, v14.3.3, feels more like a Level 4 driverless ADAS than past versions of FSD. Of all the car manufacturers today pursuing an advanced ADAS, Tesla is ahead. Way ahead.

I just finished testing a 2026 Toyota bZ with Toyota's version of an ADAS. It is a very basic lane centering technology. And this is from the largest car manufacturer in the world. When I drive with (Tesla) FSD now, I just sit there as a passenger and monitor the drive." - Forbes contributor Brooke Crothers

---

Quote:

---

June 10th

Piper Sandler analyst Alexander Potter said Tesla's fully autonomous software has effectively reached level 4 autonomous driving.

The company cited Tesla's insurance, handleless and pedalless Cybercab production, license application for robotaxi infrastructure, FSD subscription data sharing, and robotaxi service expansion as the basis for this view.

---

---

If you and Tesla are so confident in those claims, why are they not insuring it? When Tesla takes 100% liability and I can sleep on the way to work like in their robotaxis, then they can be considered L4 "everywhere".

The robo taxi service is extremely limited. The geo-fence you talk about would be only a mere small fraction of the actual roads available to drive.

---

Your argument is illogical.

Robotaxis are geo-fenced. Tesla is fully responsible for them right now.

There is no "L4 everywhere". That is called L5. There are zero L5 vehicles on the planet. Tesla is not going to limit where and when you can drive your Tesla vehicle and because of that, your argument is that they don't compare to other vehicles that are L4? Ok Elon, slap some software on there to limit where and when you can drive your Tesla with no human and this poster will rate you higher. Sorry man, that makes no sense.

Logos Stick said:

---

AggiEE said:

---

Logos Stick said:

---

AggiEE said:

---

Medaggie said:

---

Anyone who thinks Tesla FSD is behind any company is laughable and to think there are 10+ Companies who has level 4 is even more laughable unless you just read the headlines without understanding what it means.

Drop any car on any road in the US and tell it to go to the next city 100 miles away. Tesla will get you there every single time. Every other company would fail miserably. Most likely would not even move.

To say that any company is ahead of Tesla because they have some "Badge" is ill-informed.

SpaceX is over-valued if you look at almost every metric BUT in no way is it a Pump/Dump/Ponzi.

People said this about Tesla and lost badly shorting it. If you think SPaceX is a Pump/Dump, then why not short it/sell a bearish option?

---

"No, Tesla Full Self-Driving (FSD) cannot reliably navigate a 100-mile trip without driver intervention. While it is highly capable on highways and can complete long stretches autonomously under ideal conditions, the system is legally classified as Level 2. It strictly requires you to actively supervise and be ready to take control at any moment"

---

It cannot navigate a 100-mile trip without driver observation. It can certainly navigate 100 miles without driver intervention and it is highly capable even under non-ideal conditions.

Robotaxis are level 4 and operating now. FSD would be level 4 right now if geo-fenced.

Is that quote from Waymo or perhaps from 4 years ago?!

Quote:

---

June 14th

Tesla FSD is getting harder and harder to distinguish from a driverless vehicle. Tesla's latest version of FSD, v14.3.3, feels more like a Level 4 driverless ADAS than past versions of FSD. Of all the car manufacturers today pursuing an advanced ADAS, Tesla is ahead. Way ahead.

I just finished testing a 2026 Toyota bZ with Toyota's version of an ADAS. It is a very basic lane centering technology. And this is from the largest car manufacturer in the world. When I drive with (Tesla) FSD now, I just sit there as a passenger and monitor the drive." - Forbes contributor Brooke Crothers

---

Quote:

---

June 10th

Piper Sandler analyst Alexander Potter said Tesla's fully autonomous software has effectively reached level 4 autonomous driving.

The company cited Tesla's insurance, handleless and pedalless Cybercab production, license application for robotaxi infrastructure, FSD subscription data sharing, and robotaxi service expansion as the basis for this view.

---

---

If you and Tesla are so confident in those claims, why are they not insuring it? When Tesla takes 100% liability and I can sleep on the way to work like in their robotaxis, then they can be considered L4 "everywhere".

The robo taxi service is extremely limited. The geo-fence you talk about would be only a mere small fraction of the actual roads available to drive.

---

Your argument is illogical.

Robotaxis are geo-fenced. Tesla is fully responsible for them right now.

There is no "L4 everywhere". That is called L5. There are zero L5 vehicles on the planet. Tesla is not going to limit where and when you can drive your Tesla vehicle and because of that, your argument is that they don't compare to other vehicles that are L4? Ok Elon, slap some software on there to limit where and when you can drive your Tesla with no human and this poster will rate you higher. Sorry man, that makes no sense.

---

It's not illogical.

What percent of the transit system is currently geo-fenced? Hardly anything whatsoever.

It's a huge jump to say we are still anywhere close to a world where things don't feel highly, highly restricted anytime soon.

In other words - it's a cool novelty in niche markets, not widely marketable until it actually does become ubiquitous.

SpaceX is now buying Cursor. Elon gonna use those funds to bolster his AI offering.

well, so far you got the pump part right...up 50% already.

time will tell on the dump.

Is nobody worried that the pump is fueled by only 4-5% of the stock float?

I'm sure some are, but I doubt most of today's buyers are long-term holders. They're probably just looking for a quick buck.

That said, as the float grows, more institutional money can step in to meet it, so it's not just one side of the equation that will increase. The lockups also clear in tranches, so the remaining ~95% won't hit the market on one day.

YouBet said:

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SpaceX is now buying Cursor. Elon gonna use those funds to bolster his AI offering.

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This was an all-stock deal, so he's already diluting SpaceX IPO investors.

this was announced in April. Not a surprise to any investor paying attention.