From their perspective, both sides make sense. Odds are Grant would have been at the bottom of the leaderboard and would only have been shown on TV a couple of times as a novelty. Without his own film crew, there would have been little visual evidence that he even played.

But the same is true of the PGA, giving him permission to film would have opened a huge can of worms for a variety of reasons (relationships with broadcast partners, precedent set, etc) for virtually no upside. They both acted in their best interest. That's why I don't begrudge either for making the decision they made.

98Ag99Grad said:

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I just find it impossible he didn't know beforehand he couldn't film. That had to have been discussed.

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The PGA Tour had no problem letting the Bryan Bros film from outside the ropes during some of the fall PGA events last year. Not sure why it's an issue all of sudden unless Grant was demanding that his camera guy be allowed to be right next to him.

In other Barracuda news, Cam is playing very well. The format is perfect for him since you get two points for a birdie and only lose one on a bogey.

Good on Grant for what he's done, likely much more wealthy than most of us will ever be. Also, he played this all up for more clicks, more money, again, $$.

All that said, he can't compete in that field. He gains nothing putting a tee in the ground.

class of 03 said:

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Good on Grant for what he's done, likely much more wealthy than most of us will ever be. Also, he played this all up for more clicks, more money, again, $$.

All that said, he can't compete in that field. He gains nothing putting a tee in the ground.

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maybe it's 2d chess being played right now and we are all getting played. This is more chatter about the freaking barracuda championship than it's ever got since its inception. We are all the fools here.

Ha yea maybe so. And if Grant goes and does a cut show at the barracuda course the week after he would likely get tons of views now.

The pga tour suspends wes for playing in the duels events then invites grant to play in a tournament. Makes no sense. Would they ban Grant after he plays in the next duels events?

Is there a specific golfer playing because Grant Horvak declined? Just curious as it'd be interesting to see how he played.
Also, watching the Barracuda and learned Dahmen and his caddie parted ways. Kind of sad it didn't work out for them.

JCA1 said:

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RogerFurlong said:

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The pga tour suspends wes for playing in the duels events then invites grant to play in a tournament. Makes no sense. Would they ban Grant after he plays in the next duels events?

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The tour didn't invite him, the sponsor did. Bryan was a PGAT member at the time so playing in the LIV event violated his membership agreement. Grant is not a member and not bound by the same.

This stuff has been gone over a bunch and a quick Google explains it. You don't have to agree but understanding the difference in the situations is not difficult.

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Understanding hypocrisy can be difficult sometimes.

RogerFurlong said:

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JCA1 said:

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RogerFurlong said:

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The pga tour suspends wes for playing in the duels events then invites grant to play in a tournament. Makes no sense. Would they ban Grant after he plays in the next duels events?

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The tour didn't invite him, the sponsor did. Bryan was a PGAT member at the time so playing in the LIV event violated his membership agreement. Grant is not a member and not bound by the same.

This stuff has been gone over a bunch and a quick Google explains it. You don't have to agree but understanding the difference in the situations is not difficult.

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Understanding hypocrisy can be difficult sometimes.

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Bryan accepted tour membership and that's a 2-way street. There's nothing hypocritical in denying a waiver to one of your organizational members to go support a rival company. Literally every business on planet earth would have done the same.

I'm genuinely perplexed by the half dozen or so posters on the golf board who seem to simultaneously despise the PGAT (and take every minor story as an opportunity to hop on here and say so) and yet refuse to even attempt to understand the nuance of the issues. Everything is black and white, no grey. For the life of me, I don't get how an organization they don't even understand (or apparently have any desire to) manages to bother them so much.

Jawn Dough said:

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zgolfz85 said:

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Jawn Dough said:

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zgolfz85 said:

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I just couldn't imagine getting invited to play in a PGA event and saying no....regardless of the circumstances. That indeed comes off as insanely entitled. Now, if he'd come out and said something more mature like it's not fair for me to take away an opportunity from a guy that's really fighting to make it as a full time pro, that would be so so so much better. His mistake was even bringing up the filming bs. He could have come out looking like a hero.

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Yeah sure, he's entitled because he doesn't want to engage in a transaction that benefits the other party more than him. :-/

He has played golf with Phil Mickelson, Scottie Scheffler, Dustin Johnson, Jon Rahm, et. al. He's not going to be all googly-eyed and giddy playing in the Barracuda with the likes of Martin Laird and David Lipsky. His Youtube videos probably get more views than what the Barracude will get.

The PGAT wants their cake and eat it, too.

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are you honestly suggesting that playing golf with these guys casually is just as cool as playing in a PGA Tour event? If so, I think the convo ends here....cuz I don't know how to dumb myself down that much to further engage.

Also, this benefits both sides. He would be the first ever golf influencer to make it big enough to get invited to play in the PGA. That's insane. You make it sound like they're simply inviting him to play in a practice round par 3 pro/am tourney for charity.

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Yep...playing with a bunch of nobodies in a tournament not many people care about is not as cool as playing with Scheffler or Tiger Woods.

And Horvat wouldn't have been the first Youtuber to play in a PGAT event. George Bryan got invited to play in a couple of tournaments last year.

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I definitely agree with this take as well, as do most people I would think. I'd much rather play a a round with the best in the world and get 1M+ views than play with a bunch of PGA nobodies in a tournament you're not gonna win. Seems like this zgolf guy has it out for Grant for whatever reason on what is a pretty rational decision in a lot of people's eyes. He seems like the guy that makes his playing partners putt out 1 footers every round.

wangus12 said:

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98Ag99Grad said:

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I just find it impossible he didn't know beforehand he couldn't film. That had to have been discussed.

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The PGA Tour had no problem letting the Bryan Bros film from outside the ropes during some of the fall PGA events last year. Not sure why it's an issue all of sudden unless Grant was demanding that his camera guy be allowed to be right next to him.

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Forgot about this.....you're absolutely correct

David_Puddy said:

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Jawn Dough said:

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zgolfz85 said:

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Jawn Dough said:

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zgolfz85 said:

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I just couldn't imagine getting invited to play in a PGA event and saying no....regardless of the circumstances. That indeed comes off as insanely entitled. Now, if he'd come out and said something more mature like it's not fair for me to take away an opportunity from a guy that's really fighting to make it as a full time pro, that would be so so so much better. His mistake was even bringing up the filming bs. He could have come out looking like a hero.

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Yeah sure, he's entitled because he doesn't want to engage in a transaction that benefits the other party more than him. :-/

He has played golf with Phil Mickelson, Scottie Scheffler, Dustin Johnson, Jon Rahm, et. al. He's not going to be all googly-eyed and giddy playing in the Barracuda with the likes of Martin Laird and David Lipsky. His Youtube videos probably get more views than what the Barracude will get.

The PGAT wants their cake and eat it, too.

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are you honestly suggesting that playing golf with these guys casually is just as cool as playing in a PGA Tour event? If so, I think the convo ends here....cuz I don't know how to dumb myself down that much to further engage.

Also, this benefits both sides. He would be the first ever golf influencer to make it big enough to get invited to play in the PGA. That's insane. You make it sound like they're simply inviting him to play in a practice round par 3 pro/am tourney for charity.

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Yep...playing with a bunch of nobodies in a tournament not many people care about is not as cool as playing with Scheffler or Tiger Woods.

And Horvat wouldn't have been the first Youtuber to play in a PGAT event. George Bryan got invited to play in a couple of tournaments last year.

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I definitely agree with this take as well, as do most people I would think. I'd much rather play a a round with the best in the world and get 1M+ views than play with a bunch of PGA nobodies in a tournament you're not gonna win. Seems like this zgolf guy has it out for Grant for whatever reason on what is a pretty rational decision in a lot of people's eyes. He seems like the guy that makes his playing partners putt out 1 footers every round.

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dude STFU. your take is in the minority if you look on X, etc. So, go ahead and make us out to be monsters for thinking it's a dooooshy move to turn down a PGAT invite. I have watched grant for years...def don't have it out for the kid, just think he played it wrong. AFLIPPINGAIN, I think he should have played the PR much better and said I'm turning it down to give an aspiring pro a chance as it would be selfish of me to play and take that opportunity away from someone else. Instead, he made it about filming. It was an L of a marketing/PR move. Simple as that. Now go EAD and enjoy your weekend.

David_Puddy said:

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zgolfz85 said:

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David_Puddy said:

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Jawn Dough said:

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zgolfz85 said:

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Jawn Dough said:

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zgolfz85 said:

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I just couldn't imagine getting invited to play in a PGA event and saying no....regardless of the circumstances. That indeed comes off as insanely entitled. Now, if he'd come out and said something more mature like it's not fair for me to take away an opportunity from a guy that's really fighting to make it as a full time pro, that would be so so so much better. His mistake was even bringing up the filming bs. He could have come out looking like a hero.

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Yeah sure, he's entitled because he doesn't want to engage in a transaction that benefits the other party more than him. :-/

He has played golf with Phil Mickelson, Scottie Scheffler, Dustin Johnson, Jon Rahm, et. al. He's not going to be all googly-eyed and giddy playing in the Barracuda with the likes of Martin Laird and David Lipsky. His Youtube videos probably get more views than what the Barracude will get.

The PGAT wants their cake and eat it, too.

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are you honestly suggesting that playing golf with these guys casually is just as cool as playing in a PGA Tour event? If so, I think the convo ends here....cuz I don't know how to dumb myself down that much to further engage.

Also, this benefits both sides. He would be the first ever golf influencer to make it big enough to get invited to play in the PGA. That's insane. You make it sound like they're simply inviting him to play in a practice round par 3 pro/am tourney for charity.

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Yep...playing with a bunch of nobodies in a tournament not many people care about is not as cool as playing with Scheffler or Tiger Woods.

And Horvat wouldn't have been the first Youtuber to play in a PGAT event. George Bryan got invited to play in a couple of tournaments last year.

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I definitely agree with this take as well, as do most people I would think. I'd much rather play a a round with the best in the world and get 1M+ views than play with a bunch of PGA nobodies in a tournament you're not gonna win. Seems like this zgolf guy has it out for Grant for whatever reason on what is a pretty rational decision in a lot of people's eyes. He seems like the guy that makes his playing partners putt out 1 footers every round.

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dude STFU. your take is in the minority if you look on X, etc. So, go ahead and make us out to be monsters for thinking it's a dooooshy move to turn down a PGAT invite. I have watched grant for years...def don't have it out for the kid, just think he played it wrong. AFLIPPINGAIN, I think he should have played the PR much better and said I'm turning it down to give an aspiring pro a chance as it would be selfish of me to play and take that opportunity away from someone else. Instead, he made it about filming. It was an L of a marketing/PR move. Simple as that. Now go EAD and enjoy your weekend.

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You seem like a pleasant and rational guy. A guy totally able to see both sides of an argument. I really couldn't care less what a bunch of dipsh-ts on X think.....that place is largely a cesspool. Again, the guy has every right to decline the invitation for whatever reason he wants and he's got a massive following. Him playing in that tourney would benefit viewership to the PGA far more than it would help him. Also, why havent' you answered the question as to why the PGA let the Bryan Bros film for their Youtube channel in the tournaments they played in?

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ironic to say while you're doubling down on one side of the argument. anyways, this thread has run its course. I'm a big optics guy -- it was not the best optics for the kid. simple as that in my book.

A solid, logical, mannerly, and well thought out response.


Now throw in a few STFU and EAD, and we'll be full texags

JCA1 said:

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Bryan accepted tour membership and that's a 2-way street. There's nothing hypocritical in denying a waiver to one of your organizational members to go support a rival company. Literally every business on planet earth would have done the same.

I'm genuinely perplexed by the half dozen or so posters on the golf board who seem to simultaneously despise the PGAT (and take every minor story as an opportunity to hop on here and say so) and yet refuse to even attempt to understand the nuance of the issues. Everything is black and white, no grey. For the life of me, I don't get how an organization they don't even understand (or apparently have any desire to) manages to bother them so much.

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He didn't have a tour card. He was essentially a part time employee that may or may not get paid, but he gets to pay for his travel.
I love golf and enjoy watching the best golfers. Outside of major championship live golf is boring though. Go watch liv duels Dallas and tell me that's not more entertaining than every tour event outside of the Players. (And every LIV event ever) The pga tour could do something like this but they won't. They could let the best youtube golfers play tournaments and film on these random events, but they won't. I was excited to watch him crap his pants on the first tee but he may make some money that the PGA tour would miss out on.

khaos288 said:

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A solid, logical, mannerly, and well thought out response.


Now throw in a few STFU and EAD, and we'll be full texags

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anytime you get called out by your handle, it tends to elicit that type of response here. I'm good with back and forth until someone says stuff like "this xxxxx dude seems like...."

and, when I've called people out by their handle in similar fashion and been met with the same, it doesn't surprise me.

RogerFurlong said:

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JCA1 said:

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Bryan accepted tour membership and that's a 2-way street. There's nothing hypocritical in denying a waiver to one of your organizational members to go support a rival company. Literally every business on planet earth would have done the same.

I'm genuinely perplexed by the half dozen or so posters on the golf board who seem to simultaneously despise the PGAT (and take every minor story as an opportunity to hop on here and say so) and yet refuse to even attempt to understand the nuance of the issues. Everything is black and white, no grey. For the life of me, I don't get how an organization they don't even understand (or apparently have any desire to) manages to bother them so much.

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He didn't have a tour card. He was essentially a part time employee that may or may not get paid, but he gets to pay for his travel.
I love golf and enjoy watching the best golfers. Outside of major championship live golf is boring though. Go watch liv duels Dallas and tell me that's not more entertaining than every tour event outside of the Players. (And every LIV event ever) The pga tour could do something like this but they won't. They could let the best youtube golfers play tournaments and film on these random events, but they won't. I was excited to watch him crap his pants on the first tee but he may make some money that the PGA tour would miss out on.

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I don't think most golf diehards would agree. I'm a weekly watcher. I'm not often watching the first 3 rounds...depends on the leaderboard, but Sundays are always fun.

Go watch the Liv dallas. It's a lot more fun when you get to see them interact with eachother and their thoughts on each shot. Seeing how Phil approaches his shots into greens is fascinating. It's a great finish and worth the watch. It's Bryson, Phil and Rahm all playing against eachother with the help of really good amateurs plus wesley.

Oh idc at all. Society has crumbled so much that people being comfortable being ornery on line is just entertainment at this point.

RogerFurlong said:

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Go watch the Liv dallas. It's a lot more fun when you get to see them interact with eachother and their thoughts on each shot. Seeing how Phil approaches his shots into greens is fascinating. It's a great finish and worth the watch. It's Bryson, Phil and Rahm all playing against eachother with the help of really good amateurs plus wesley.

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Went to a liv tourney last year. I agree it's way better in person than on tv. Way more access to get close enough to players to hear them vs PGA

100%. Well laid out.

The fact the PGAT felt the need to mobilize their media mouth pieces should tell us exactly what we need to know about this.

I never watched YouTube golf until LIV split off. They're light years ahead of the tour in engaging the public in social media and player access. It's not surprising YouTube personalities have flocked that direction.

Only the tour could approve of Grant to be a sponsor exemption and then refuse to allow him to do the production that is the very reason they wanted him in the tournament. And yes, the tour approves sponsor exemption invites.

AgLA06 said:

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100%. Well laid out.

The fact the PGAT felt the need to mobilize their media mouth pieces should tell us exactly what we need to know about this.

I never watched YouTube golf until LIV split off. They're light years ahead of the tour in engaging the public in social media and player access. It's not surprising YouTube personalities have flocked that direction.

Only the tour could approve of Grant to be a sponsor exemption and then refuse to allow him to do the production that is the very reason they wanted him in the tournament. And yes, the tour approves sponsor exemption invites.

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Yet no one watches LIV on tv. I get it and they do excel there, but to a laughable audience size globally. I was rooting for LIV, but after a couple seasons of seeing it in action, let's merge tours and get over the silliness. I get that the PGA has an NCAA like arrogance and tone deafness, but let's not forget the sport we're talking about. It's still golf. It's still a rich man's game and largely funded by the country club crowd, not matter how many joints we smoke on the course or how many times we walk up to the first tee with music blaring and shirts untucked. I still appreciate the PGA in a lot of ways and especially for holding firm and not bending the knee to every woke cause that pops up. So, if they don't want to let things get out of hand with filming and set new precedents, so be it. We'll still be glued to the screen all this weekend wishing we were playing portrush

zgolfz85 said:

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David_Puddy said:

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zgolfz85 said:

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David_Puddy said:

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Jawn Dough said:

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zgolfz85 said:

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Jawn Dough said:

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zgolfz85 said:

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I just couldn't imagine getting invited to play in a PGA event and saying no....regardless of the circumstances. That indeed comes off as insanely entitled. Now, if he'd come out and said something more mature like it's not fair for me to take away an opportunity from a guy that's really fighting to make it as a full time pro, that would be so so so much better. His mistake was even bringing up the filming bs. He could have come out looking like a hero.

---

Yeah sure, he's entitled because he doesn't want to engage in a transaction that benefits the other party more than him. :-/

He has played golf with Phil Mickelson, Scottie Scheffler, Dustin Johnson, Jon Rahm, et. al. He's not going to be all googly-eyed and giddy playing in the Barracuda with the likes of Martin Laird and David Lipsky. His Youtube videos probably get more views than what the Barracude will get.

The PGAT wants their cake and eat it, too.

---

are you honestly suggesting that playing golf with these guys casually is just as cool as playing in a PGA Tour event? If so, I think the convo ends here....cuz I don't know how to dumb myself down that much to further engage.

Also, this benefits both sides. He would be the first ever golf influencer to make it big enough to get invited to play in the PGA. That's insane. You make it sound like they're simply inviting him to play in a practice round par 3 pro/am tourney for charity.

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Yep...playing with a bunch of nobodies in a tournament not many people care about is not as cool as playing with Scheffler or Tiger Woods.

And Horvat wouldn't have been the first Youtuber to play in a PGAT event. George Bryan got invited to play in a couple of tournaments last year.

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I definitely agree with this take as well, as do most people I would think. I'd much rather play a a round with the best in the world and get 1M+ views than play with a bunch of PGA nobodies in a tournament you're not gonna win. Seems like this zgolf guy has it out for Grant for whatever reason on what is a pretty rational decision in a lot of people's eyes. He seems like the guy that makes his playing partners putt out 1 footers every round.

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dude STFU. your take is in the minority if you look on X, etc. So, go ahead and make us out to be monsters for thinking it's a dooooshy move to turn down a PGAT invite. I have watched grant for years...def don't have it out for the kid, just think he played it wrong. AFLIPPINGAIN, I think he should have played the PR much better and said I'm turning it down to give an aspiring pro a chance as it would be selfish of me to play and take that opportunity away from someone else. Instead, he made it about filming. It was an L of a marketing/PR move. Simple as that. Now go EAD and enjoy your weekend.

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You seem like a pleasant and rational guy. A guy totally able to see both sides of an argument. I really couldn't care less what a bunch of dipsh-ts on X think.....that place is largely a cesspool. Again, the guy has every right to decline the invitation for whatever reason he wants and he's got a massive following. Him playing in that tourney would benefit viewership to the PGA far more than it would help him. Also, why havent' you answered the question as to why the PGA let the Bryan Bros film for their Youtube channel in the tournaments they played in?

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ironic to say while you're doubling down on one side of the argument. anyways, this thread has run its course. I'm a big optics guy -- it was not the best optics for the kid. simple as that in my book.

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Uhhhh, you may need to read page 1 again. I only chimed in when you kept hammering posters that didn't agree with you. Saying that the argument as to why his decision was perfectly ok was in the small minority. You also claimed that people were crazy to want to play a round with the likes of Scottie, Rahm, Morikowa, etc versus some tournament filled with players who 75% of the even non casual golf fan couldn't name.. I'm not trying to classify you polically here and simply making. comparison here, but that methodology sounds like the one all of the liberals are taking against everything that Trump does.

I would be willing to bet that that the majority of his 1.4 million Youtube subscribers and 1 million Instagram followers would side with him. I think his content is awesome and I'm not trying to white knight for the guy by any means but if I got a change to play with some of the guys he gets to play with, that would be the best day of my golf life. As has been pointed out, he makes a lot of money off of social media and he doesn't have much of a desire to play in a professional tourney with a bunch of no name players and journeymen who have a tour card. Shoot, even if he made the cut, he'd probably make more money spending a Thursday or Friday at one of the courses in Florida filming with his expansive list of contacts of guys who would be more than happy to go on camera with him (obviously not any pro players right now, but other "influencers" in the space).

Bottom line, it's. really not that crazy of a stance to take, especially being that the PGA tour bent the rules for others in that regard already in terms of letting them film. I don't know if this was an all or nothing type of deal, but if it wasn't, I'm guessing the first alternate who might have taken his spot was more than thrilled with his decision, especially if they're grinding every week to make a living. Phil took the fifth when he was asked about him, because he didn't want to ruffle any PGA feathers, but he said a ton of glowing things about the guy. He even mentioned how much knowledge he has gained about the Youtube space from him. I'm betting that Bryson and some of the other tour players who have started Youtube channels also agree. Youtube has done wonders for Bryson's popularity and a lot of these stuck up golf fans really did a 180 when they saw what a good guy he was. Hell even Brooks, who outright hated the guy, has done a 180 on him.

I do apologize for saying that you make your playing partners putt out 1 footers though, very many people are that cruel.