Deluxe said:

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My overall thoughts on Spieth. I think alot of things can be true at the same time.

• I would not have him on the team as of today (see previous post)
• I think he should be one of a handful of guys under consideration for the last ~3 spots. He's quietly played well enough this year to keep himself in the running. I stress the word "quietly" ha.
• As of right now, he's 48th in Fedex Cup standings. He has two events left to earn enough points to make East Lake. I think it would be very difficult to justify putting him on the team if he doesn't. Especially if a few guys from the Harman, Finau, Berger, etc tier finish strong. Granted, JT made it in 2023 without qualifying for East Lake.
• His "locker room" respect and leadership is an asset to the team, but he should NOT be picked solely for that reason.
• Generally speaking, there's room for a low impact veteran to make the team as a role player. Namely to shepherd around a rookie for a few matches. When I look at the potential guys to fill out the 10-12 spots, he's the only one who could potentially fit that criteria. If he makes the team, that should be his role.
• With that said, if Spieth closes the year meh, and Burns/Berger/Cantlay (for example) play really well in the playoffs, Spieth should NOT make the team over them simply to fill some sort of "veteran" quota.

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You forgot to add: whiny little ***** to your list.

I know you were being sarcastic. Italy was a disaster.

Deluxe said:

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I hear what you're saying about Bethpage and wasn't necessarily disagreeing with you. Just looking at it from a different angle.

Quote:

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I don't think Spieth should be in the conversation right now.

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He's #9 American on PGA Tour in strokes gained this year and brings alot of respect/leadership to the table. He's been very underwhelming in big events this year, so my perception is similar to yours. To the extent he does make the team, I think it's to do what Justin Rose did with Bob McIntyre back in 2023.

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I'll watch and see what he does for the next few weeks. He just had another child, the focus might be rightfully not on golf, we saw a similar scenario in Italy.

The problem I have with the Rose comparison to playing with McIntyre is that Spieth is a much different player than Rose. Rose is a perfect pentagon on data golf, well rounded, really easy to put somebody with and know what you are getting. Spieth is a rollercoaster, which is part of the reason most of us love to watch him, you never know what you're going to see. But when you're looking for a guy, especially in foursomes but even in fourball, riding that rollercoaster can be tough. Ask JT after the last time around.

Set it up about 7900 and mow all the rough. Pick all the bangers.

It's funny to read about Spieth being this old veteran…at the ripe age of 31. I know it's true, but it's just funny to talk about him like he's 41.

Cam Young. Welcome to the chat.

In an ideal world, Cam Young winning the Wyndham wouldn't have a big impact on how the USA roster looks. But given how uninspiring the bottom third of the lineup looks and how Cam could be a good fit for Bethpage, he should firmly be on the radar for one of the last spots.

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Rankings update

Full Lock
1) Scottie (1)
2) Xander (2)
3) Bryson (3)

Almost certainly in one way or another:
4) Spaun (4)
5) Henley (5)
6) English (6)

Probably in but want to see a little more from them down the stretch
7) Griffin (9) - Another solid showing at the Wyndham. He could almost be in the tier with Spaun, Henley and English. In as long as he doesn't suck in the playoffs.
8) JT (7)
9) Morikawa (8)

From there...
10) Keegan (10)
11) Cantlay (11)
12) Young (NR) - Quietly had a nice summer, capped off with win at Wyndham.

First out
13) Burns (12)
14) Spieth (13) - Wasted opportunity at the Wyndham. Still "controls his destiny" in some ways but has to post a couple good finishes in the playoffs.
14) McNealy (13)
15) Gotterup (14)

Cam Young is ranked 15th, not NR.

I don't see how Spaun, Henley, English, or JT get left off the team in any scenario. Probably Griffin either at this point. They're in the lock category.

I meant NR relative to my previous rankings on page 2, which I didn't make very obvious in my post

Don't know what to think about Morikawa. Big name but hasn't really played well since April. Also on his 3rd caddie or so in the last 3 months and just seems surly whenever he opens his mouth. Don't get good vibes off him right now. He'd be a tough guy to leave behind considering his pedigree but I'd consider it.

Deluxe with excellent analysis and recap of Team US Ryder Cup projection

JCA1 said:

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Don't know what to think about Morikawa. Big name but hasn't really played well since April. Also on his 3rd caddie or so in the last 3 months and just seems surly whenever he opens his mouth. Don't get good vibes off him right now. He'd be a tough guy to leave behind considering his pedigree but I'd consider it.

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I think we set different expectations for what is 'good' with guys like Cantlay, Morikawa, JT level players than we do for Keegan and lower level players.
Since May, Morikawa has gone t-17, t-50, t-20, t-25, t-8 then admittedly had a bad trip to Scotland and Ireland, but we aren't playing the Ryder Cup at a links course. Is it Morikawa level good? No. Is it bad? Also no.
But then for a guy like Keegan, he wins Travelers, then goes t-30 in America, t-41 at the Open and CUT this week, but our expectations for him are lower.

We are making a guess at who is going to play good golf for one weekend in September a month after the playoffs end. I'm taking Morikawa and not thinking twice. I think wanting leave Collin home is the equivalent of clamoring for the backup QB after a few mediocre games from the starter.

For Team USA to have a chance to win the Ryder Cup at Bethpage Black, they will need our top players to play well and likely compete in all 5 matches. This would include Scottie, Xander and Bryson.

I think if Young plays well in the playoffs he might need to get a nod. Having a NY guy on the team would be pretty cool.

I'm a big Cam Young guy, thought it was a shame he got left off the last one from #9 in the standings in favor of Sam Burns.
Hope he keeps playing well.

Everyone is talking about who will be on team USA. But who will be on the Euros team? Other than the couple obvious guys Rory, Rahm, etc.

Who are their lower tier guys?

Current standings for Euros:

1. Rory
2. MacIntyre
3. Fleetwood.
4. Hatton
5. Lowry
6. Straka
...
Rasmus
Rose
Aberg
Hovland
Wallace
Fitzpatrick
Detry
Rai
Jordan Smith

Rahm is in 21st but he's gotta be a choice

Not the juggernaut unbeatable team everyone was painting them as a few months ago

I get the rules, but it's always weird to me guys can live in the USA, have a southern Georgia accent, and play representing a European country.

The thing about the Euros is the base of their team is so solid from tee to green.
Did that for years with guys that probably didn't putt good enough in majors to win as much as they could have. But you could pair a Henrik Stenson, Justin Rose, Sergio Garcia, Paul Casey, Lee Westwood, etc, up on Friday and Saturday and they were going to hammer fairways and greens, and if you beat them you earned it.
Now they've got guys like Fleetwood, Aberg, Hovland (when he isn't tinkering), Hatton to go with a Rahm and McIlroy. They might never win a ton in majors, but they're gonna ball strike you to death, and they're easy to pair up with rookies because they're gonna be steady. They also just aren't afraid to lean on 6-7 guys the first 2 days and limit the others.

I want to know who the US version of Eduardo Molinari is. The teams are so even talent wise we better have a serious number cruncher working for us. Its absolutely insane at this point Europe continues to dominate this facet of the event.

Team Europe is the favorite heading into this year's Ryder Cup.

Based on?

This is what I'm referring to:

https://instagr.am/p/DM0wWO_u7aR

First, I'll wait to see Europe not lose by a massive margin in the US using his system before praising it too much.

I also just think it's easier with their ball striking to organize the team. I'd say their best 6 are Rory, Rahm, Fleetwood, Aberg, Hatton and Hovland. Throw in Rose and Lowry and I don't see how anybody couldn't come up with 3 solid pairings in each session. All of their ball striking stats are above tour average (outside of McIlroy driving accuracy), and they all have experience in Ryder Cups. Can even afford for a couple of them to have an off week.

For us it seems like there is something that lacks with everyone outside of Scottie and Bryson. Xander/JT (Bryson too, but not as much) with driving accuracy, Henley/Morikawa and their distance, Spaun/English/Griffin look like great adds statistically but don't have experience. All good players, but it's not the 6-8 player base they have that's relatively easy to mix and match. Cantlay coming around over the next couple weeks would help. Also don't think we can afford for Scheffler or Bryson to have a bad week.

Top 10 (American and European) over the last 6 months strokes gained:

1. Scheffler
2 McIlroy
3. Rahm
4. Dechambeau
5. Fleetwood
6. Henley
7. Thomas
8. Bradley
9. English
10. Spaun

7 USA v 3 European

Are we just making stuff up now?

ETA: I do admit the Europe lineup seems better than US. But US is still favored. -150. But I want to say it was -200 earlier this year, so it's possible it could keep going down.

I've got tickets for Friday, so I'll probably wait a bit to put a big bet down.

They've won 8 of the past 11, including 2 of 5 on American soil.

You have to look at strokes gained differently when it comes to team events than when it comes to regular stroke play events.
Think of a player like Mickelson. Everybody on Europe would've traded careers with him, and his SG was higher than any of them in most years. But he played a style of game that is hard to pair up with, especially in foursomes. A little wild off the tee, but it didn't show up in his overall SG that bad because he had plenty of distance and the ability to hit recovery shots that almost nobody else could.

20 points are available with guys playing their own ball and 8 points are available with alt shot. I don't think you need to look at whose playing the best golf any differently.

That's exactly right. Foursomes is everything.