aginlakeway said:

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Marcus Aurelius said:

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Had my first death today. Sat at home with symptoms for 7 days. Then the 7-9 day viral pneumonia hypoxia. Come to hospital. He got HCQ at day 7. Too late. We aren't using this drug appropriately. Needs to be given in first 48 hrs. Somehow. It's doing nothing to pts who are hypoxic. Anecdotal.

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Very sorry to hear this.

May I ask why he sat at home with symptoms for 7 days?

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What else would you advise a patient to do? This is the current treatment. Stay home until you need to be hospitalized.

I agree that it will likely be shown that early intervention with HCQ may be helpful but since we cannot test and there is a shortage of HCQ it is a difficult problem to get a handle on.

aggie-beta said:

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Marcus Aurelius said:

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Had my first death today. Sat at home with symptoms for 7 days. Then the 7-9 day viral pneumonia hypoxia. Come to hospital. He got HCQ at day 7. Too late. We aren't using this drug appropriately. Needs to be given in first 48 hrs. Somehow. It's doing nothing to pts who are hypoxic. Anecdotal.

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If someone like you or one of your coworkers got Covid, would yall wait until they needed to be in the hospital to start the meds or is this something the doctor has no control over because there is that little supply?

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Given during first 48 hours in the hospital or within the first 48 hours of getting symptoms? If the later, how would you assess whether or not the case is going to ultimately be serious or not?

No. Absolutely not. But not sure there's access now. We discussed this at meeting last night. And I doubt hospital would take care of us. 20% of physicians in Italy got infected. As I said anecdote - but my gut tells me only using it for hospitalized patients is an improper use of it.

KidDoc said:

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aginlakeway said:

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Marcus Aurelius said:

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Had my first death today. Sat at home with symptoms for 7 days. Then the 7-9 day viral pneumonia hypoxia. Come to hospital. He got HCQ at day 7. Too late. We aren't using this drug appropriately. Needs to be given in first 48 hrs. Somehow. It's doing nothing to pts who are hypoxic. Anecdotal.

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Very sorry to hear this.

May I ask why he sat at home with symptoms for 7 days?

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What else would you advise a patient to do? This is the current treatment. Stay home until you need to be hospitalized.

I agree that it will likely be shown that early intervention with HCQ may be helpful but since we cannot test and there is a shortage of HCQ it is a difficult problem to get a handle on.

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I assumed he was having breathing issues as a symptom. He apparently was not.

I have a friend who just did a drive up test here in Austin an hour ago. So I disagree with your test statement.

Marcus Aurelius said:

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No. Absolutely not. But not sure there's access now. We discussed this at meeting last night. And I doubt hospital would take care of us. 20% of physicians in Italy got infected. As I said anecdote - but my gut tells me only using it for hospitalized patients is an improper use of it.

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FYI ... I am 100% sure they are in pharmacies again. They were not last week.

aginlakeway said:

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KidDoc said:

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aginlakeway said:

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Marcus Aurelius said:

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Had my first death today. Sat at home with symptoms for 7 days. Then the 7-9 day viral pneumonia hypoxia. Come to hospital. He got HCQ at day 7. Too late. We aren't using this drug appropriately. Needs to be given in first 48 hrs. Somehow. It's doing nothing to pts who are hypoxic. Anecdotal.

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Very sorry to hear this.

May I ask why he sat at home with symptoms for 7 days?

---

What else would you advise a patient to do? This is the current treatment. Stay home until you need to be hospitalized.

I agree that it will likely be shown that early intervention with HCQ may be helpful but since we cannot test and there is a shortage of HCQ it is a difficult problem to get a handle on.

---

I assumed he was having breathing issues as a symptom. He apparently was not.

I have a friend who just did a drive up test here in Austin an hour ago. So I disagree with your test statement.

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Yeah the Texas major metro are slowly getting drive through testing cranking. Aggieland is not there yet. We can still only tests if risk factors, confirmed exposure, hospitalization, etc.

What did they tell your buddy the expected turn around time was? If > 48 hours then likely not terribly helpful as far as HCQ intervention likely to help.

Was HIPPA really written to protect in a situation like this? Could it be amended for better contact tracing and still protect people that have herpes or whatever they are trying to guard against?

KidDoc said:

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aginlakeway said:

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KidDoc said:

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aginlakeway said:

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Marcus Aurelius said:

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Had my first death today. Sat at home with symptoms for 7 days. Then the 7-9 day viral pneumonia hypoxia. Come to hospital. He got HCQ at day 7. Too late. We aren't using this drug appropriately. Needs to be given in first 48 hrs. Somehow. It's doing nothing to pts who are hypoxic. Anecdotal.

---

Very sorry to hear this.

May I ask why he sat at home with symptoms for 7 days?

---

What else would you advise a patient to do? This is the current treatment. Stay home until you need to be hospitalized.

I agree that it will likely be shown that early intervention with HCQ may be helpful but since we cannot test and there is a shortage of HCQ it is a difficult problem to get a handle on.

---

I assumed he was having breathing issues as a symptom. He apparently was not.

I have a friend who just did a drive up test here in Austin an hour ago. So I disagree with your test statement.

---

Yeah the Texas major metro are slowly getting drive through testing cranking. Aggieland is not there yet. We can still only tests if risk factors, confirmed exposure, hospitalization, etc.

What did they tell your buddy the expected turn around time was? If > 48 hours then likely not terribly helpful as far as HCQ intervention likely to help.

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I'm unsure what the turn around time is. He said he'd reach out when he was done and let me know what they told him about the turnaround time. Also curious how many tests were being done. I'll post here if I can.

Marcus Aurelius said:

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Cant give to much details. Got a veiled HIPAA threat from a fellow TexAgs poster. No comorbidities. 54.

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Fellow Texags poster should review the following:

https://www.hhs.gov/sites/default/files/hipaa-and-covid-19-limited-hipaa-waiver-bulletin-508.pdf

aginlakeway said:

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KidDoc said:

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aginlakeway said:

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Marcus Aurelius said:

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Had my first death today. Sat at home with symptoms for 7 days. Then the 7-9 day viral pneumonia hypoxia. Come to hospital. He got HCQ at day 7. Too late. We aren't using this drug appropriately. Needs to be given in first 48 hrs. Somehow. It's doing nothing to pts who are hypoxic. Anecdotal.

---

Very sorry to hear this.

May I ask why he sat at home with symptoms for 7 days?

---

What else would you advise a patient to do? This is the current treatment. Stay home until you need to be hospitalized.

I agree that it will likely be shown that early intervention with HCQ may be helpful but since we cannot test and there is a shortage of HCQ it is a difficult problem to get a handle on.

---

I assumed he was having breathing issues as a symptom. He apparently was not.

I have a friend who just did a drive up test here in Austin an hour ago. So I disagree with your test statement.

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How long is he going to have to wait for results? A week?

Would you recommend testing your 02 sat daily and going to the hospital if you're somewhere around 94 or so? It seems like some are going hypoxic without having trouble breathing, and getting ahead of the lung issues sounds really important.

Im at 99% so I'm fine but monitoring every day

KidDoc said:

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aginlakeway said:

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KidDoc said:

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aginlakeway said:

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Marcus Aurelius said:

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Had my first death today. Sat at home with symptoms for 7 days. Then the 7-9 day viral pneumonia hypoxia. Come to hospital. He got HCQ at day 7. Too late. We aren't using this drug appropriately. Needs to be given in first 48 hrs. Somehow. It's doing nothing to pts who are hypoxic. Anecdotal.

---

Very sorry to hear this.

May I ask why he sat at home with symptoms for 7 days?

---

What else would you advise a patient to do? This is the current treatment. Stay home until you need to be hospitalized.

I agree that it will likely be shown that early intervention with HCQ may be helpful but since we cannot test and there is a shortage of HCQ it is a difficult problem to get a handle on.

---

I assumed he was having breathing issues as a symptom. He apparently was not.

I have a friend who just did a drive up test here in Austin an hour ago. So I disagree with your test statement.

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Yeah the Texas major metro are slowly getting drive through testing cranking. Aggieland is not there yet. We can still only tests if risk factors, confirmed exposure, hospitalization, etc.

What did they tell your buddy the expected turn around time was? If > 48 hours then likely not terribly helpful as far as HCQ intervention likely to help.

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OK. He went to CLINIC and not drive up testing. I PM'd you info.

KidDoc said:

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aginlakeway said:

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Marcus Aurelius said:

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Had my first death today. Sat at home with symptoms for 7 days. Then the 7-9 day viral pneumonia hypoxia. Come to hospital. He got HCQ at day 7. Too late. We aren't using this drug appropriately. Needs to be given in first 48 hrs. Somehow. It's doing nothing to pts who are hypoxic. Anecdotal.

---

Very sorry to hear this.

May I ask why he sat at home with symptoms for 7 days?

---

What else would you advise a patient to do? This is the current treatment. Stay home until you need to be hospitalized.

I agree that it will likely be shown that early intervention with HCQ may be helpful but since we cannot test and there is a shortage of HCQ it is a difficult problem to get a handle on.

---

Keep in mind that 80% recover without being hospitalized. Meaning that course of treatment works 80% of the time.

aginlakeway said:

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KidDoc said:

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aginlakeway said:

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Marcus Aurelius said:

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Had my first death today. Sat at home with symptoms for 7 days. Then the 7-9 day viral pneumonia hypoxia. Come to hospital. He got HCQ at day 7. Too late. We aren't using this drug appropriately. Needs to be given in first 48 hrs. Somehow. It's doing nothing to pts who are hypoxic. Anecdotal.

---

Very sorry to hear this.

May I ask why he sat at home with symptoms for 7 days?

---

What else would you advise a patient to do? This is the current treatment. Stay home until you need to be hospitalized.

I agree that it will likely be shown that early intervention with HCQ may be helpful but since we cannot test and there is a shortage of HCQ it is a difficult problem to get a handle on.

---

I assumed he was having breathing issues as a symptom. He apparently was not.

I have a friend who just did a drive up test here in Austin an hour ago. So I disagree with your test statement.

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When does he get the test results?

BiochemAg97 said:

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aginlakeway said:

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KidDoc said:

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aginlakeway said:

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Marcus Aurelius said:

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Had my first death today. Sat at home with symptoms for 7 days. Then the 7-9 day viral pneumonia hypoxia. Come to hospital. He got HCQ at day 7. Too late. We aren't using this drug appropriately. Needs to be given in first 48 hrs. Somehow. It's doing nothing to pts who are hypoxic. Anecdotal.

---

Very sorry to hear this.

May I ask why he sat at home with symptoms for 7 days?

---

What else would you advise a patient to do? This is the current treatment. Stay home until you need to be hospitalized.

I agree that it will likely be shown that early intervention with HCQ may be helpful but since we cannot test and there is a shortage of HCQ it is a difficult problem to get a handle on.

---

I assumed he was having breathing issues as a symptom. He apparently was not.

I have a friend who just did a drive up test here in Austin an hour ago. So I disagree with your test statement.

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When does he get the test results?

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I PM'd the verified doctors. I had 3 posters reach out to me that I had already said too much for a message board. So I'm not going to post anymore about one specific case.

culdeus said:

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Was HIPPA really written to protect in a situation like this? Could it be amended for better contact tracing and still protect people that have herpes or whatever they are trying to guard against?

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I don't think HIPPA is an issue with contact tracing. We do contact tracing with things like sexually transmitted diseases anyway. Contract tracing would be healthcare people (CDC, county health, etc)

The HIPPA issue is more about the police knowing who to keep in their homes.

TxAG#2011 said:

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Marcus Aurelius said:

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Had my first death today. Sat at home with symptoms for 7 days. Then the 7-9 day viral pneumonia hypoxia. Come to hospital. He got HCQ at day 7. Too late. We aren't using this drug appropriately. Needs to be given in first 48 hrs. Somehow. It's doing nothing to pts who are hypoxic. Anecdotal.

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Hopefully in a few weeks the rapid tests will be in abundance. Patient gets tested > gets results immediately > positive cases are given a regiment of HCQ (assuming it proves to be effective by then)

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HCQ + Zinc+ Zpac. Apparently but needs to start early on.

HIPPA threat.... unbelievable
There are no shortage of Karen's lurking on these boards.

ttuhscaggie said:

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HIPPA threat.... unbelievable
There are no shortage of Karen's lurking on these boards.

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I got HIPPA threats too. And I'm not a doctor!

I hope those folks feel important now.

Karens and other know nothings love to invoke hippa violations at the drop of a hat.

The next time someone accuses you of making a HIPPA violation, just say that you didn't know hippos got offended when you assume their gender.

But if they accuse you of a HIPAA violation you can just tell them to kiss off.

aggie-beta said:

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Infection_Ag11 said:

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Player To Be Named Later said:

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So how on earth can they tell us they are useless for people to wear? Especially given the potentially lengthy asymptomatic but contagious phase.

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Because only a small minority will ever wear them, an even smaller minority will wear them correctly, and a yet smaller minority will do the other necessary aspects (leaving it on all the time, not touching their face, washing hands, etc.) to provide the true benefit.

Essentially, unless we are all onboard and doing it to the best of our abilities, it's just a waste of masks that could best be used elsewhere.

Now if we could adopt the mindset of the Chinese/Japanese/Koreans (the needs of the many...) and 80-90% of us are wearing masks correctly all day long? Sure, sign me up. That will never happen here though.

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How about since many of us are not even working we just wear them to go to the grocery store. It's not hard to avoid touching your face with a mask on. I wear one nearly all day at work and never touch my face with it on.

I think it's annoying to see doctors posting the same bull crap as the government. If people are trained properly they could learn in a 10 minute video the proper way to wear a mask to a grocery store and the proper way to take it off. We don't have to use your precious masks to get some benefit so quit giving bad advice because precious medical masks are low in stock.

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I don't think doctors are trying to deceive you about masks. We are trying to educate you on them. If you look at my daily posts I have said I am in favor of everyone wearing a masks. Not because it will help you by wearing one but if everyone is wearing them that means the asymptomatic patients are now wearing them so it will decrease the spread. But as previously said this only works when 80%+ are using them.

Hydroxychloroquine Tablets availability:
USA
Bayer 3,000,000
Teva 16,000,000
Amneal 20,000,000 (mid April)

Worldwide:
Novartis 130,000,000 - worldwide

"Together, the commitments represent nearly 220 million chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine tablets for the global COVID-19 response"

https://www.fiercepharma.com/pharma/new-commitments-mylan-and-teva-move-to-supply-tens-millions-hydroxychloroquine-tablets-to

No. anecdotally. IMO. After day 7. No.

SUag said:

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What's the point of this? Is he saying not to use it until it's definitive? What does this accomplish?

guess what?

it's the only mass producible thing we've got for the next several months

so if it's got any sort of efficacy, you might want to use it and optimize that usage

JB99 said:

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SUag said:

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What's the point of this? Is he saying not to use it until it's definitive? What does this accomplish?

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He is saying we still don't know if it works. Don't go thinking we already have a cure and you can go run out and spread it around again. We need to stay on shelter in place until 1) we know we have an effective cure, and 2) we can get it to people on time. We aren't there yet, so stay at home.

JB99 said:

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SUag said:

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What's the point of this? Is he saying not to use it until it's definitive? What does this accomplish?

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He is trying to defend his "wrong" position. He is a typical overly cautious Dr that wants to see all the clinical trials and tests that take a long time. Typical bureaucrat... slow.

All the use is saving lives but he want accept it. FDA has approved it.

74Ag1 said:

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JB99 said:

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SUag said:

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What's the point of this? Is he saying not to use it until it's definitive? What does this accomplish?

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He is trying to defend his "wrong" position. He is a typical overly cautious Dr that wants to see all the clinical trials and tests that take a long time. Typical bureaucrat... slow.

All the use is saving lives but he want accept it. FDA has approved it.

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Sir, this is not correct.

The drug is unproven for COVID-19 in a clinical setting, with or without azithromycin and zinc. There are a myriad of small-patient-count reports and anecdotes that encourage optimism, but nothing defendable right now. The trials and studies in New York and elsewhere are trying to answer whether it's a valid prophylactic, treatment, or otherwise. Timing, age, gender, hyper(hypo)tension, pre-existing conditions, blood type, all have a weight in decision-making for any drug. Doctors on these forums have acknowledged doubts about it working. Everyone involved is still trying to figure it out.

Think about the weight of making this drug an endorsed medical recommendation from the federal government of the United States without substantial evidence it works.

Literally billions of people would hang their hopes on it, on trials of 30 or 40 people at a time right now. Best case - it works and we have massive runs on supply. Worst case - it has minimal to no effect outside of the small study populations circulated to date, or worse, gives false hope.

Can we just pray for and support the people trying to figure out how to help?

74Ag1 said:

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JB99 said:

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SUag said:

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What's the point of this? Is he saying not to use it until it's definitive? What does this accomplish?

---

He is trying to defend his "wrong" position. He is a typical overly cautious Dr that wants to see all the clinical trials and tests that take a long time. Typical bureaucrat... slow.

All the use is saving lives but he want accept it. FDA has approved it.

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I feel like a lot of people don't understand anecdotal evidence.

He's saying we don't know...which we don't.

Fitch said:

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74Ag1 said:

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JB99 said:

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SUag said:

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What's the point of this? Is he saying not to use it until it's definitive? What does this accomplish?

---

He is trying to defend his "wrong" position. He is a typical overly cautious Dr that wants to see all the clinical trials and tests that take a long time. Typical bureaucrat... slow.

All the use is saving lives but he want accept it. FDA has approved it.

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Sir, this is not correct.

The drug is unproven for COVID-19 in a clinical setting, with or without azithromycin and zinc. There are a myriad of small-patient-count reports and anecdotes that encourage optimism, but nothing defendable right now. The trials and studies in New York and elsewhere are trying to answer whether it's a valid prophylactic, treatment, or otherwise. Doctors on these forums have acknowledged doubts about it working. Everyone involved is still trying to figure it out.

Think about the weight of making this drug an endorsed medical recommendation from the federal government of the United States without substantial evidence it works.

Literally billions of people would hang their hopes on it, on trials of 30 or 40 people at a time right now. Best case - it works and we have massive runs on supply. Worst case - it has minimal to no effect outside of the small study populations circulated to date, or worse, gives false hope.

Can we just pray for and support the people trying to figure out how to help?

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Your right to some degree
1) French Dr Didier Raoult 23 or so cured
2) French Dr Didier Raoult 78/80 cured
3) Jewish Dr in New York said about 400 - 500 cured
Probably other's

Your right no clinical trials... just the battlefield.

I am extremely hopeful it can work. In this day and age I can't believe humanity would be faced with a disease we can't overcome.

Fitch said:

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74Ag1 said:

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JB99 said:

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SUag said:

---

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What's the point of this? Is he saying not to use it until it's definitive? What does this accomplish?

---

He is trying to defend his "wrong" position. He is a typical overly cautious Dr that wants to see all the clinical trials and tests that take a long time. Typical bureaucrat... slow.

All the use is saving lives but he want accept it. FDA has approved it.

---

Sir, this is not correct.

The drug is unproven for COVID-19 in a clinical setting, with or without azithromycin and zinc. There are a myriad of small-patient-count reports and anecdotes that encourage optimism, but nothing defendable right now. The trials and studies in New York and elsewhere are trying to answer whether it's a valid prophylactic, treatment, or otherwise. Timing, age, gender, hyer(hypo)tension, pre-existing conditions, blood type, all have a weight in decision-making for any drug. Doctors on these forums have acknowledged doubts about it working. Everyone involved is still trying to figure it out.

Think about the weight of making this drug an endorsed medical recommendation from the federal government of the United States without substantial evidence it works.

Literally billions of people would hang their hopes on it, on trials of 30 or 40 people at a time right now. Best case - it works and we have massive runs on supply. Worst case - it has minimal to no effect outside of the small study populations circulated to date, or worse, gives false hope.

Can we just pray for and support the people trying to figure out how to help?

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Your worst case is literally nothing. You realize there is no treatment, none that is defendable. There's absolutely no good reason not to try and use this treatment. So we are going from having nothing and hoping we win the genetic lotterry and don't need a ventilator to having the possibility of some hope. Just consider one of your children or parents or yourself getting this disease. Are you going to discourage a doctor from prescribing this because iy's not definitive? Of course not.