non farm jobs in June - 147k

9,032 Views | 125 Replies | Last: 1 mo ago by IIIHorn
Aglaw97
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Logos Stick said:

Science Denier said:

Rapier108 said:

Apollo79 said:

Rapier108 said:

Ellis Wyatt said:

Logos Stick said:

average monthly gain 12 months previous = 146k

UE at 4.1%, down from 4.2%

eta: if you were looking for a Fed rate cut this month, it's out the window imo

Powell was never going to cut rates this month. He is consumed with TDS, regardless of external factors.

Of course it is always "TDS".

Funny how some of you people can never even consider that Trump is wrong and someone else is right.

yes most intelligent economists believe he should cut rates, what other plausible reason is there for Powell not to? He did it to help Harris in the run for President what's the deal now?

Funny how some of you people can never consider people rather see the country fail then help Trump.

"Help Trump"

That is really what it is all about with you people. All about making Trump look good.


Helping Trump = helping the country. Purposefully hurting the country is what Powell is doing. And the reason is TDS. Hope that clears things up.


What should the rate be set to and why?

Great question for all those arguing rates should be lower, which even as a Trump supporter I am not in favoring of reducing rates yet. People have gotten too drunk and happy on basically free money over the large part of the last 15 years. Historically rates were never that low for that extended of a period. Too many people suffer from recency bias.
Krombopulos Michael
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Science Denier
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Logos Stick said:

Science Denier said:

Logos Stick said:

He can only be fired for cause. He can't be fired because Trump has decided he wants a 1% rate, which is completely ******ed btw.


Fire him. Cause = hurting the country by implement different policies based solely on who is POTUS.


Ok, what should the rate be set to and why?

I used the Taylor rule above, which is completely objective. We should be at 5% per that rule.

2.5%. I thought I posted this earlier, but may have been deleted. Or, maybe it didn't actually post.

Anyway, Trump has said he has secured $10 trillion in new investments in the US. Even if you don't believe him, he's working hard to bring at least some manufacturing to the US. To do that, he needs lower interest rates. Companies are NOT going to borrow at 5%. They will at 2.5%.

In your extremely outdated "Taylor rule", you have underestimated the potential GDP growth rate. Right now, labor participation is 62.2. Pre-covid, Trump had that at 63.3%. With the tariffs and influx of investment, that would at least go to 65%, and could reach as high as 70%, with cutting off welfare/Medicade to those not working.

And, yes. There could be some short term pain (inflation). But, it's worth it if it stimulates new construction in either new manufacturing, or updated older manufacturing complexes.
LOL OLD
Logos Stick
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Science Denier said:

Logos Stick said:

Science Denier said:

Logos Stick said:

He can only be fired for cause. He can't be fired because Trump has decided he wants a 1% rate, which is completely ******ed btw.


Fire him. Cause = hurting the country by implement different policies based solely on who is POTUS.


Ok, what should the rate be set to and why?

I used the Taylor rule above, which is completely objective. We should be at 5% per that rule.

2.5%. I thought I posted this earlier, but may have been deleted. Or, maybe it didn't actually post.

Anyway, Trump has said he has secured $10 trillion in new investments in the US. Even if you don't believe him, he's working hard to bring at least some manufacturing to the US. To do that, he needs lower interest rates. Companies are NOT going to borrow at 5%. They will at 2.5%.

In your extremely outdated "Taylor rule", you have underestimated the potential GDP growth rate. Right now, labor participation is 62.2. Pre-covid, Trump had that at 63.3%. With the tariffs and influx of investment, that would at least go to 65%, and could reach as high as 70%, with cutting off welfare/Medicade to those not working.

And, yes. There could be some short term pain (inflation). But, it's worth it if it stimulates new construction in either new manufacturing, or updated older manufacturing complexes.


So your rate number is completely arbitrary then.

The bold is not true.

First off, the rate now is not 5%, it's 4.25%. Second, the rate was 5.25% at the peak of the housing bubble and was at 4.2%+ for the two years prior. Companies were borrowing during that time, that's a root cause of the bubble. Industrial production was at the highest level ever at that time! That's just one instance among many. 4.25% is an historically normal rate.

The Taylor rule is not outdated by any means. Its not a hard and fast rule used by the Fed but its not outdated. It is:
- Widely used by economists to benchmark whether monetary policy is too tight or too loose.
- Referenced in Fed research, speeches, and Congressional hearings.
- Useful for transparency: It helps explain how inflation and economic slack might justify a certain rate, even if the Fed doesn't strictly follow it.
- Still updated by Federal Reserve Banks (e.g., Atlanta Fed's Taylor Rule Utility) using current economic data and different assumptions. Here is the link: https://www.atlantafed.org/cqer/research/taylor-rule

Quote:

Global Perspectives: John B. Taylor on the Taylor Rule, accommodative policy, low interest rates and expanded central bank mandates

Mark A. Wynne
November 24, 2020

John B. Taylor is the Mary and Robert Raymond Professor of Economics at Stanford University and also the George P. Shultz Senior Fellow at the Hoover Institution. A distinguished monetary economist, he is the author of the Taylor Rule, which is widely used to guide and evaluate central bank performance.

https://www.dallasfed.org/research/economics/2020/1124



70% LPR?!?! We've never hit 70% since we've been measuring it!


Inflation is literally theft. It's never good, short or long term.
Queso1
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Biden admin reports revised numbers.

Texags: urmagerd!!!! 1984

Trump admin reports revised numbers.

Texags: all is well!!! All is well!!!
IslanderAg04
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IslanderAg04
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Queso1 said:

Biden admin reports revised numbers.

Texags: urmagerd!!!! 1984

Trump admin reports revised numbers.

Texags: all is well!!! All is well!!!


Guess he could just make 1000's of fluff govt jobs to pad the numbers.
Kansas Kid
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Funny how we had a booming economy under Reagan despite interest rates approaching double digits. If you want to bring back manufacturing, drastically cut regulations and you will get a lot bigger impact than a couple percentage points on interest rates.
IIIHorn
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samurai_science said:

Apollo79 said:

Rapier108 said:

Ellis Wyatt said:

Logos Stick said:

average monthly gain 12 months previous = 146k

UE at 4.1%, down from 4.2%

eta: if you were looking for a Fed rate cut this month, it's out the window imo

Powell was never going to cut rates this month. He is consumed with TDS, regardless of external factors.

Of course it is always "TDS".

Funny how some of you people can never even consider that Trump is wrong and someone else is right.

yes most intelligent economists believe he should cut rates, what other plausible reason is there for Powell not to? He did it to help Harris in the run for President what's the deal now?

Funny how some of you people can never consider people rather see the country fail then help Trump.

Inflation

Inflation is essential for the success of balloon festivals.


( ...voice punctuated with a clap of distant thunder... )
halfastros81
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I think it's pretty damned clear Powell pushed for lower rates in A hyperinflationary environment in 2024 for political reasons . He was wrong to do so and he did it for the wrong reasons.

I think it's less clear now the reasons that Powell is not lowering rates at Trump's behest. He may not be doing it for political purposes or he may not be doing it because he truly believes it might spark more inflation uneccessarily or maybe even some of each. I don't really care because I think lowering rates is not the best answer right now . It could also be true that not lowering rates is the best answer but he's doing the right thing for the wrong reasons.

Science Denier
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Logos Stick said:

Science Denier said:

Logos Stick said:

Science Denier said:

Logos Stick said:

He can only be fired for cause. He can't be fired because Trump has decided he wants a 1% rate, which is completely ******ed btw.


Fire him. Cause = hurting the country by implement different policies based solely on who is POTUS.


Ok, what should the rate be set to and why?

I used the Taylor rule above, which is completely objective. We should be at 5% per that rule.

2.5%. I thought I posted this earlier, but may have been deleted. Or, maybe it didn't actually post.

Anyway, Trump has said he has secured $10 trillion in new investments in the US. Even if you don't believe him, he's working hard to bring at least some manufacturing to the US. To do that, he needs lower interest rates. Companies are NOT going to borrow at 5%. They will at 2.5%.

In your extremely outdated "Taylor rule", you have underestimated the potential GDP growth rate. Right now, labor participation is 62.2. Pre-covid, Trump had that at 63.3%. With the tariffs and influx of investment, that would at least go to 65%, and could reach as high as 70%, with cutting off welfare/Medicade to those not working.

And, yes. There could be some short term pain (inflation). But, it's worth it if it stimulates new construction in either new manufacturing, or updated older manufacturing complexes.


So your rate number is completely arbitrary then.

The bold is not true.

First off, the rate now is not 5%, it's 4.25%. Second, the rate was 5.25% at the peak of the housing bubble and was at 4.2%+ for the two years prior. Companies were borrowing during that time, that's a root cause of the bubble. Industrial production was at the highest level ever at that time! That's just one instance among many. 4.25% is an historically normal rate.

The Taylor rule is not outdated by any means. Its not a hard and fast rule used by the Fed but its not outdated. It is:
- Widely used by economists to benchmark whether monetary policy is too tight or too loose.
- Referenced in Fed research, speeches, and Congressional hearings.
- Useful for transparency: It helps explain how inflation and economic slack might justify a certain rate, even if the Fed doesn't strictly follow it.
- Still updated by Federal Reserve Banks (e.g., Atlanta Fed's Taylor Rule Utility) using current economic data and different assumptions. Here is the link: https://www.atlantafed.org/cqer/research/taylor-rule

Quote:

Global Perspectives: John B. Taylor on the Taylor Rule, accommodative policy, low interest rates and expanded central bank mandates

Mark A. Wynne
November 24, 2020

John B. Taylor is the Mary and Robert Raymond Professor of Economics at Stanford University and also the George P. Shultz Senior Fellow at the Hoover Institution. A distinguished monetary economist, he is the author of the Taylor Rule, which is widely used to guide and evaluate central bank performance.

https://www.dallasfed.org/research/economics/2020/1124



70% LPR?!?! We've never hit 70% since we've been measuring it!


Inflation is literally theft. It's never good, short or long term.

1. My number is as arbitrary as yours.
2. Companies are waiting to expand when the fed lowers rates. That is true.
3. Taylor rule is WAY outdated in determining policy for the US today. There is no determination of potential GDP. And it totally ignores the potential with an administration that is specifically growing that potential after coming off of an administration hell bent on REMOVING folks from the work force. Paying people to stay at home.
4. I get the theory behind it, just like I get the theory of tariffs always are 100% paid for by the consumer. Of course, that's been proven wrong TWICE now under Trump.
5. Of course, these folks that believe in this outdated theory also believe this Taylor rule is gospel as well.
6. Agreed 70% would be rather huge, and is not what my 2.5% is based on. It would be especially huge when the boomers start to retire.
LOL OLD
2023NCAggies
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Trump said Biden inflated the job numbers by 1.5 million. Rip the band aid off and give the people the real % for unemployment

Then work on getting that number down.

Time to be honest, be transparent
Aggie95
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Rates were too low for too long. However, IMO the thing that sent inflation to the moon was the trillions of free covid cash for people and businesses. So, if we lower rates some, I'm not sure we'll see the inflation rate rise much at all and it would take a while if we do
IIIHorn
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infinity ag said:

Why can't AI replace the IRS?

It would tax the servers.


( ...voice punctuated with a clap of distant thunder... )
samurai_science
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Aggie95 said:

Rates were too low for too long. However, IMO the thing that sent inflation to the moon was the trillions of free covid cash for people and businesses. So, if we lower rates some, I'm not sure we'll see the inflation rate rise much at all and it would take a while if we do

The housing market is at a cliff, and rates need to come down for that alone, but I am worried about inflation.
IIIHorn
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samurai_science said:

Aggie95 said:

Rates were too low for too long. However, IMO the thing that sent inflation to the moon was the trillions of free covid cash for people and businesses. So, if we lower rates some, I'm not sure we'll see the inflation rate rise much at all and it would take a while if we do

The housing market is at a cliff, and rates need to come down for that alone, but I am worried about inflation.

Bluffing


( ...voice punctuated with a clap of distant thunder... )
HTownAg98
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samurai_science said:

Aggie95 said:

Rates were too low for too long. However, IMO the thing that sent inflation to the moon was the trillions of free covid cash for people and businesses. So, if we lower rates some, I'm not sure we'll see the inflation rate rise much at all and it would take a while if we do

The housing market is at a cliff, and rates need to come down for that alone, but I am worried about inflation.

The housing market was over-heated in 2022-2023, and is now finally correcting itself.
Sims
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samurai_science said:

Aggie95 said:

Rates were too low for too long. However, IMO the thing that sent inflation to the moon was the trillions of free covid cash for people and businesses. So, if we lower rates some, I'm not sure we'll see the inflation rate rise much at all and it would take a while if we do

The housing market is at a cliff, and rates need to come down for that alone, but I am worried about inflation.

The cliff the housing market is on is just a self-prescribed one. It's a refusal by sellers to follow supply/demand curves. Inventory rising, demand falling...fingers plugged in ears..."No I will not lower my price!"

Builders are giving 5 figure incentives to realtors to clear new builds in addition to paying full commission. They see the writing on the wall.
infinity ag
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IIIHorn said:

infinity ag said:

Why can't AI replace the IRS?

It would tax the servers.


Nice one!!

Loved it.
NormanEH
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IIIHorn said:

infinity ag said:

Why can't AI replace the IRS?

It would tax the servers.

The IRS is a deductible exception to the AI takeover. It's still too complex for even the most advanced algorithms to file away.
IIIHorn
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infinity ag said:

IIIHorn said:

infinity ag said:

Why can't AI replace the IRS?

It would tax the servers.


Nice one!!

Loved it.




( ...voice punctuated with a clap of distant thunder... )
 
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