Rapier108 said:

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laavispa said:

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Although I own a G19, never been much of a fan of the striker fired weapons. I much prefer a SA/DA platform, but the Sig226 just didn't 'fit right'. Settled on a FNP years ago, the carry options are great condition 1, 2 or 3. Not a great concealed carry option.

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I don't own any Glocks, I just don't care for how they feel in my hand, but I'm with you on not caring for striker fired pistols. I also prefer the SA/DA hammer fired guns and all of my carry guns except for the P365X are SA/DA hammer fired pistols, which are almost impossible to find these days.

One reason I like H&K so much is they still make numerous SA/DA hammer fire pistols. I own five H&Ks and will probably get a few more eventually. I do have the VP9SK, which is striker fired. Won't carry it as it has no manual safety, but if I had to, I would never worry about it accidently going off.

And just for the record, I have no problem with Glock in terms of quality. I think they're good handguns and will tell people to always try one when they're looking to buy their first gun.

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The USP is still pretty excellent. You running the LEM trigger on any of yours?

Gunny456 said:

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I've got thousands of rounds through my SIG 226 without a single issue. This is a classic example of a great company with traditionally fine products getting new management directions and caving to price and feeling the need to follow pseudo popularity. Basically trying to fix something that wasn't broke.
Now they have a bad issue.

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Carrying the 226 is sort of like going to the gym, grabbing one of the barbell plates, and putting that on your belt. H&K has had for many years the USP which, like the 226 (depending on the USP variant) an external hammer and decocker. But its polymer frame is much lighter than the Sigs, though not quite what the Glock is. When H&K started venturing into the striker fired world, it hasn't had the problems other OEMs have had with quality.

I think the Sig Pro models that Sig came out with some time around 2000 (give or take 2-5 years) were decent to good handguns that for whatever reason didn't catch on. I don't know if they were too heavy or people didn't want the exposed hammer. I do seem to recall that they weighed a bit more than the H&K USPs and while Sigs (at least at the time) had a great reputation, few wanted to get a new model over the established H&K for roughly the same price. I think the Sig Pro, if you can find it, is now cheaper. I also seem to recall people saying if they were going to go with a polymer Sig, they might as well just get a cheaper Glock. To me, that made a lot of sense as I've never seen anything special about the Sig that either an H&K or a Glock didn't offer (and while I own Glocks, I still think their design CAN make them unsafe -- trigger pull required to field strip).

All that to say I don't think Sig could have kept up with the competition just staying with the 226/9 and maybe whatever pocket sized pistols they came out with.

Pookers said:

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Rapier108 said:

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laavispa said:

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Although I own a G19, never been much of a fan of the striker fired weapons. I much prefer a SA/DA platform, but the Sig226 just didn't 'fit right'. Settled on a FNP years ago, the carry options are great condition 1, 2 or 3. Not a great concealed carry option.

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I don't own any Glocks, I just don't care for how they feel in my hand, but I'm with you on not caring for striker fired pistols. I also prefer the SA/DA hammer fired guns and all of my carry guns except for the P365X are SA/DA hammer fired pistols, which are almost impossible to find these days.

One reason I like H&K so much is they still make numerous SA/DA hammer fire pistols. I own five H&Ks and will probably get a few more eventually. I do have the VP9SK, which is striker fired. Won't carry it as it has no manual safety, but if I had to, I would never worry about it accidently going off.

And just for the record, I have no problem with Glock in terms of quality. I think they're good handguns and will tell people to always try one when they're looking to buy their first gun.

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The USP is still pretty excellent. You running the LEM trigger on any of yours?

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I will have to look when I get home. Off the top of my head, I don't remember if any of them are the version with the LEM trigger.

I've got a USP and USP-C both in .45ACP. Had the full size one for decades and never had it fail once on the range. Got the USP-C a couple of years ago and never had a problem with either.

I'd love to get a USP Tactical, or even the Mark-23, but those are out of my price range at the moment, especially the 23.

A family member has a 365, Has anybody tried this with that?

ts5641 said:

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I carried a Sig P226 for many years as a cop. Loved that gun! Hate to see this.

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Love my Sig P226. Never will I own a striker fire handgun. My duty carry is the FN FNX 45.

Psycho Bunny said:

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ts5641 said:

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I carried a Sig P226 for many years as a cop. Loved that gun! Hate to see this.

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Love my Sig P226. Never will I own a striker fire handgun. My duty carry is the FN FNX 45.

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FNX 45 is nice. Mine needed a break in period, but once I put several hundred rounds through it, the initial failure to feed problem disappeared.

The hammer fired are still great guns. However sig had a run of poor quality with the striker fired 320 for whatever reasons.

The striker fired 365 has been great though.

Rapier108 said:

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Psycho Bunny said:

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ts5641 said:

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I carried a Sig P226 for many years as a cop. Loved that gun! Hate to see this.

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Love my Sig P226. Never will I own a striker fire handgun. My duty carry is the FN FNX 45.

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FNX 45 is nice. Mine needed a break in period, but once I put several hundred rounds through it, the initial failure to feed problem disappeared.

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Some ammo I noticed didn't like the FN. I run blazer for range practice and Sig Elite Defense for street carry.

I shot S&W M&P for years in IDPA matches. When IDPA started allowing RDS, I decided to try something else. Bought a 320 VTAC and later 320 X Compact. I have thousands of rounds thru them both without incident. I alternate the two for EDC.

That said, there has been too much "noise" on this issue. I just ordered a new M&P 2.0 to become my new EDC. Should be delivered to my gun range in next day or two and waiting, as I write this, for my new RDS to be delivered.

I hope Sig finds the problem and issues a recall.

aTmAg said:

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A family member has a 365, Has anybody tried this with that?

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Tried what?

aTmAg said:

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A family member has a 365, Has anybody tried this with that?

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This has nothing to do with the 365, might want to do some research.

ts5641 said:

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I carried a Sig P226 for many years as a cop. Loved that gun! Hate to see this.

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I've had one for many years. If you run out of ammunition you can always beat someone with it. That is one stout pistol.

Slicer97 said:

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aTmAg said:

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A family member has a 365, Has anybody tried this with that?

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Tried what?

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The thing that the dude in the video tried. depress the trigger by a mm with a screw, and squeeze and mess with the slide.

I just want to make sure a family member doesn't accidentally shoot somebody.

samurai_science said:

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aTmAg said:

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A family member has a 365, Has anybody tried this with that?

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This has nothing to do with the 365, might want to do some research.

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Sig said this whole concern was an impossibility. I'm not trusting them.

Carried a Colt 1911 for number of years. 226 does not feel like a barbell weight to me. My dad carried either a Colt 1911 Or S&W 4" model 27 as his service weapon for years…and he refused to carry a Glock. He was plumb old school.
Interesting that the Sig232 was the issued DPS back up gun that all troopers carried for a few years.

aTmAg said:

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samurai_science said:

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aTmAg said:

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A family member has a 365, Has anybody tried this with that?

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This has nothing to do with the 365, might want to do some research.

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Sig said this whole concern was an impossibility. I'm not trusting them.

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I carried a P365 for almost 2 years and have been carrying the P365 X Macro for over a year now. I've never had an issue with either and I've never heard of anyone else having an issue with any of the P365 line. The internals of the FCU are put together differently than the P320.

I do recommend getting them out of their crappy grip modules and into an aluminum one though.

aTmAg said:

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samurai_science said:

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aTmAg said:

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A family member has a 365, Has anybody tried this with that?

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This has nothing to do with the 365, might want to do some research.

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Sig said this whole concern was an impossibility. I'm not trusting them.

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The P365 is a different design than the P320. This would be like saying the Ford Mustang is dangerous because the Ford Fiesta is.

There have been no reliable reports of a P365 firing on its own.

The only real complaint I've seen regarding the 365 and it firing accidently is the fact it does not have a trigger safety. If one grabs it incorrectly when chambered, it would be possible accidently pull the trigger, but that is operator error, not some design flaw causing it to fire when sitting on a table.

The P365, and most of its numerous variations can come with a manual safety if one wants one.

aTmAg said:

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samurai_science said:

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aTmAg said:

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A family member has a 365, Has anybody tried this with that?

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This has nothing to do with the 365, might want to do some research.

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Sig said this whole concern was an impossibility. I'm not trusting them.

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The 365 has a completely different striker safety than 320. It resembles that of every other striker fired pistol out there. Namely just a simple vertical plunger with a simple coiled spring that is captured.

The striker block on the 320 would make rube Goldberg proud.

Rapier108 said:

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The P365, and most of its numerous variations can come with a manual safety if one wants one.

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And if it doesn't have one, an OEM or aftermarket can be added. It will require a new grip module or a modification to the existing module. Sig Guy has a tool and videos for how to do this.

If anyone puts theirs in an aluminum grip module, Armory Craft makes an extended safety that works really well with the wider ones.

MouthBQ98 said:

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Beat out the Glock by $14 per unit for the current service pistol
Apparently. Tag was the only major difference between the two finalists. And apparently this issue which did not emerge in testing with the Sig.

Funny part is, as much grief as they gave the old M9 over the years, it's latest model actually performed about on par with the Sig and Glick but it wasn't allowed into the final competition.

The fad was the trigger group design, where the internal mechanism of the gun could be swapped between different models of frame. My guess is that this has an unanticipated drawback.

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And after all the retesting done on the m18 the cost came in well above either the Glock or simply taking the modified beretta m9a3 through an engineering change proposal.
Would have been waaaay cheaper staying with the m9 and wouldn't be having guns go off if an insect lands on it the right way.

Hammer less handguns

Slicer97 said:

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Rapier108 said:

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The P365, and most of its numerous variations can come with a manual safety if one wants one.

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And if it doesn't have one, an OEM or aftermarket can be added. It will require a new grip module or a modification to the existing module. Sig Guy has a tool and videos for how to do this.

If anyone puts theirs in an aluminum grip module, Armory Craft makes an extended safety that works really well with the wider ones.

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I actually bought the enlarged safety level from Armory Craft for my 365X and it's real nice. Makes it a lot easier to manipulate the safety.

From SIG. FWIW:

Quote:

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P320 Safety Information

Recently, there have been a number of reports and claims regarding the safety of the P320 pistol and its use by the U.S. Military and law enforcement agencies. We understand you may have questions. We want to address your concerns and provide you with full, complete, and accurate information.

SIG SAUER has ALWAYS and will continue to put the safety and security of the U.S. Military, the law enforcement community, our consumers, and the public first. To this end, we want to be sure concerned citizens have access to complete facts.

The P320 pistol is one of the safest, most advanced pistols in the world -meeting and exceeding all industry safety standards. Its design has been thoroughly tested and validated by the U.S. Military and law enforcement agencies at the federal, state and local levels. In addition, the P320 has been rigorously tested, and is currently in use by militaries and law enforcement agencies around the world.

FBI Testing and Report

A recently publicized internal report from the FBI's Ballistic Research Facility (BRF) created some confusion and raised questions about the safety of the P320. The FBI prepared this report for the Michigan State Police after an officer was involved in an accidental discharge. SIG SAUER engineers met with the FBI and Michigan State Police on several occasions to review the report and the incident. Ultimately, the FBI conducted a more detailed, repeatable, and comprehensive battery of testing using compatible equipment. The subsequent testing resulted in zero instances of failures and the Michigan State Police are now confidently issuing officers P320 based pistols. The FBI BRF have yet to make any official claims or statements regarding the safety of the P320 pistol or any of its variants. However, we are urging the FBI BRF and FBI Director Kash Patel to release a full and complete testing and evaluation report on their updated P320 safety testing.

Department of Homeland Security

An internal memo from the Department of Homeland Security (DHS)/ U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) was recently posted online stating the agency was halting its use of the P320. Many online media outlets immediately sought to attribute this to the above referenced FBI BRF report, which is incorrect. DHS has never raised any safety concerns about the P320 and ICE has since extended their existing contract with SIG SAUER another two years. Since DHS has yet to comment publicly correcting their improperly leaked memo, or any statements questioning the safety of the P320, we are now urging ICE to release all information on P320 testing. SIG SAUER is honored to continue aiding ICE in their mission to protect America.

U.S. Air Force M18

There was a recent tragic incident at F.E. Warren Air Force Base in Wyoming which resulted in the death of an Airman. Because the incident involved the discharge of a (P320 based) M18 pistol, the Air Force is actively conducting an evaluation of M18 pistols within the specific Command where the incident happened. This cautionary step is standard procedure. We proactively offered assistance to the U.S. military as they investigate the incident. Contrary to several online reports, (P320 based) M17 and M18 pistols remain on active duty with all branches of the U.S. Military, including the U.S. Air Force, defending freedom around the world. We have absolute confidence in the U.S. Military's ability to conduct a thorough investigation and report their findings. As we learn more information about the investigation, we will continue to provide updated information.

P320 Range and Training Bans

Following several of these inaccurate reports, a number of ranges, training providers, and training facilities made the reactionary decision to ban the P320 and its use in their facilities. We are actively working to provide these individuals with accurate information along with a detailed understanding of the P320 and its safety features. If you are impacted by a P320 range or a training provider ban, we urge you to reach out to SIG CUSTOMER SERVICE: 603-610-3000 Option 1 or send a message here so we can clarify any misinformation and provide the truth.

The P320 CANNOT, under any circumstances, discharge without the trigger first being moved to the rear. This has been verified through exhaustive testing by SIG SAUER engineers, the U.S. Military, several major federal and state law enforcement agencies, and independent laboratories. This video provides a detailed view into all of the various safety features of the P320 and provides a detailed explanation of how the safety system works; for further information on the P320 please visit here.

As with any gun, the P320 will discharge if the trigger is pulled to the rear. Accordingly, SIG SAUER continues to remind its customers, employees, and the public to employ all safe gun-handling practices as spelled out in detail in our product manuals. The SIG SAUER Academy remains a resource to customers, employees, and the public in offering various firearms safety courses.

We respect the public's concern and are actively working to provide as much information as possible. We sincerely thank you for your continued support of SIG SAUER and urge anyone with additional questions or concerns regarding the P320 and/or safe firearms handling to reach out to our customer service team.

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Anecdotal conversation: A business associate of mine called a customer at USAF Global Strike Command yesterday to discuss a training services contract. The USAF POC told him, "I'm sorry I can't take your call today. I'm too busy looking for a source of supply for 10,000 pistols."

Washington State has banned police recruits from carrying the P320. Sig's response was to sue them.

https://www.krem.com/article/news/investigations/gun-maker-sues-to-block-washington-police-academy-ban-sig-sauer-p320s/281-77f3b16e-39fc-42a1-8e7c-bff999d86e43

A podcast said the P320's design is such that it is fully cocked when a round is chambered, unlike other's such as Glock which are only half cocked and lack the force to fire the primer. So a failure in the P320's safety mechanism, such as mis-machined parts, will cause the gun to fire.

aTmAg said:

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Slicer97 said:

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aTmAg said:

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A family member has a 365, Has anybody tried this with that?

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Tried what?

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The thing that the dude in the video tried. depress the trigger by a mm with a screw, and squeeze and mess with the slide.

I just want to make sure a family member doesn't accidentally shoot somebody.

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Not an issue with the 365. This is very unique to the 320.

"It ends today" - sig

Psycho Bunny said:

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ts5641 said:

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I carried a Sig P226 for many years as a cop. Loved that gun! Hate to see this.

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Love my Sig P226. Never will I own a striker fire handgun. My duty carry is the FN FNX 45.

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Was that a package deal with your crown vic?

The best description of a Glock I've ever seen is that it's like "holding a gun made from angry legos"

That said, the Sig 365 is an amazing handgun. Shoots really well

I see the Cult of 1911 is still roaming around.

Wish I still had my crown vic.

1911 fan boys are the CrossFit of the gun world. Always ready to pounce and let everyone know that "they" own a 1911. We get it, you love your 1911. I myself like a firearm with more than 8 shots.

Cue the if you need more than 8 shots you are doing it wrong comments.

The M9 was ready to go. The two significantly different trigger pulls we hard to overcome given limited training time dedicated to pistols by most of the people assigned them, and the large grip was difficult to manage for most females and other shooters with smaller hands.

Hickok45's take

Several years ago I carried a Ruger SP101 for EDC. It was/is a great gun, but when the Smith and Wesson Shield Plus came along, I was hooked and switched out to that little gun. It has a manual safety which I have trained with to the point that it is smooth and putting it in the fire position is the last part of the draw stroke. I haven't always been a S&W fan, but they're making some very good semiauto pistols these days.